Concealed Carry: If You're Interested in Preventing Hate Crimes, Let's Stop them Before They Happen

Twenty-five years ago, Tom Palmer and a male companion were threatened by a group of 20 or so young males on an empty street in San Jose, California. The group shouted anti-gay epithets and made death threats.

Palmer and his companion ran, and the attackers gave chase. Moments later, Palmer pulled out a 9 mm semi-automatic pistol, one he owned legally, and pointed it at the group. Palmer was positive they intended to seriously harm or even kill him and his companion.

The gun stopped the group in their tracks. Palmer told them that if they got any closer to him, he would use the gun and shoot. The young men didn't take that chance, and Palmer credits that pistol for saving his life.

Tom, who currently works as a scholar at the libertarian Cato Institute, knows first hand that a gun can save your life.

This summer, the Senate will consider the Matthew Shepard Local Law Enforcement Enhancement Hate Crimes Prevention Act, more commonly know as Hate Crimes legislation. Unfortunately, the bill, as currently written, will do little to actually prevent violent hate crimes from occurring. There is, however, a way to stop hate crimes before they happen: help law-abiding Americans at risk of hate crimes defend themselves from predators.

While GOProud, the only national gay conservative group, doesn't take a position on the current hate crimes legislation, we do strongly support empowering individuals to protect themselves - which is why GOProud urges the Senate to amend the current hate crimes legislation to include a provision dealing with concealed carry reciprocity.

A bill in the Senate, S. 845, co-sponsored by Senator John Thune (R-SD) and Senator David Vitter (R-LA), allows for reciprocity among all the states that currently allow citizens to lawfully carry a concealed firearm.

This common sense legislation would allow an individual who is lawfully licensed to carry a concealed weapon in his home state, to also carry a concealed weapon in another state - as long as that state permits conceal carry and as long as the individual complies with the concealed carry law of that state. An individual's constitutional right to defend himself or herself should not arbitrarily stop at a state line. This is particularly the case when traveling to a state that also permits concealed carry.

GOProud is not alone in their fight to empower law-abiding individuals by protecting their 2nd Amendment rights. Gun Owners of America, an organization representing hundreds of thousands of Americans, strongly supports S. 845, and supports adding concealed carry reciprocity to the hate crimes bill.

Gun Owners of America is the organization that helped lead the successful efforts to amend recent credit card legislation to include a provision allowing for the lawful exercise of 2nd amendment rights in national parks and refuges. Gun Owners of America shares our commitment to empowering individuals to defend themselves lawfully from becoming victims of violent crime.

No matter what the left wants you to believe, the truth is that law-abiding gun use saves lives. Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self defense - that's 6,850 times a day in this country. Furthermore, concealed carry laws have reduced murder and crime rates in states that have enacted them.

According to a comprehensive study which reviewed crime statistics in every county in the United States from 1977 to 1992, states that passed concealed carry law reduced their rate of murder by 8.5%, rape by 5%, aggravated assault by 7%, and robbery by 3%.

Some on the left will argue that this amendment would be a poison pill -- an amendment intended simply to kill hate crimes legislation. This amendment isn't a poison pill -- like it or not hate crimes legislation will pass, and by a wide margin, with or without a concealed carry reciprocity amendment.

No one argues that violent crime is not a problem, and no one should doubt that there are groups of individuals who are targeted just because of who they are -- be it because they of their race, religion or sexual orientation. While good and honest people can differ on the best and most constitutional way to deal with this problem, all of us can and should agree that it is a problem.

If Congress is actually interested in preventing violent hate crimes, they should pass legislation that will empower individuals to defend themselves before they become another hate crime victim.

Comments

[propitiousmoment]

Conceal carry laws would not have saved Dr. Tiller or the people at the D.C. museum or countless others who are gunned down by these idiots with no warning. All they will do is put more lethal weapons in the hands of more wingnuts. The second amendment was written in a much less urban time, and a much less technologically advanced time. Times have changed. It's time to get some sensible laws that take into account the world we actually live in, not some fantasy wild west or frontier conditions. And it's time to monitor the wingnuts and lock them up BEFORE they do their damage.

[confidance government]

We are not discussing arming "wing nuts", the discussion is regarding citizens with a clean criminal record that are willing to provide their fingerprints to local law enforcement and undergo training prior to being issued a concealed carry permit.

The first Amendment was written in different times as well, but I am not advocating restricting you to spouting your drivel solely with the printing press.

I'll say it again, Is it gun violence if I shoot your strawman full of holes?

What would have saved these men in each instance, would have been the enforcement of previously existing laws and more rigorous policing. Both of the examples you cite were perpetrated by people that had no right under exisiting legislation to have access to firearms.

[jade7243]

How assinine. You can be a "wingnut" and have "clean criminal record."

This discussion is about putting more guns in the hands of people who will make rash decisions to shoot first and ask questions later.

Concealed carry laws do not reduce crime. They just put more guns in arm's reach.

It time to have real, comprehensive gun control in this country.

[jade7243]

And, btw, your attempt to mix in the first amendment to distract from your understanding of the second, is classic O'Reilly. Good work, grasshopper.

[Paul Troon]

Your comments bespeak ignorance of facts.

"All they will do is put more lethal weapons in the hands of more wingnuts"

Interestingly statics do not bear that out. When Florida passed CCW in 85, The anti gun movement stated there would be blood in the streets over fender benders, Florida would be the Gunshine state, and general carnage. It did not happen. Just how many cases can you point to where a CCW permitee engaged in such behavior?

"The second amendment was written in a much less urban time, and a much less technologically advanced time"

Yes, you are correct, but prey tell, why is it alright for criminals to have such "Technologically advancements" but not the average citizen to protect themselves with?

"Times have changed. It's time to get some sensible laws that take into account the world we actually live in"

Actually, that is exactly what the CCW laws do. They give the citizen a reasonable CHANCE should the CRIMINAL DECIDE to use lethal force. I would remind you that police respond to murder AFTER the fact.

"not some fantasy wild west or frontier conditions"

As usual, your expectations of reality are far removed from the reality. Violence rates in the "Wild West" were not nearly as high as you would expect.

"And it's time to monitor the wingnuts and lock them up BEFORE they do their damage."

Yeah, there you go! Great idea. . .Who gets to define whom is a "wingnut?"

[propitiousmoment]

You did not respond to the most important statement in my comment, that concealed weapons would not have saved Dr. Tiller and others similarly attacked and killed. Moreover, it has been documented in at least some cases that the shooters in these incidents were holders of concealed carry permits. When you have a hammer in your hand, everything looks like a nail. The wild west/frontier comment was directed at the mentality of gun enthusiasts, who in my experience love to see the world in those terms, the other template being the spy-around-every-corner storyline. I'm just saying the world isn't like that, we should not grant the narrative to those who wish it was.

[BGAM]

I live in a "much less urban" town. When I take a walk out of the town limits, I literally become part of the food chain (cougars, moose, deer, etc.)

Would you take away my right to carry protection? A hungry cougar won't listen to even the most eloquent argument.

[Gidster]

Self aggrandizing opinion spouted as medical science.

I guess FOX is not alone......

[Gidster]

That was meant to go one below.......

[Zman380]

" And it's time to monitor the wingnuts and lock them up BEFORE they do their damage."

You mean like those people who refer to anyone who disagrees with them on any point "wingnuts" and advocates violating their civil rights based upon political opinions?

[onepotatotwopotato]

Raging Against Self Defense: A Psychiatrist Examines The Anti-Gun Mentality

http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/ragingagainstselfdefense.htm

By Sarah Thompson, M.D. therighter.comhter.com

Quote from the article linked to above: "You don't need to have a gun; the police will protect you." "If people carry guns, there will be murders over parking spaces and neighborhood basketball games." "I'm a pacifist. Enlightened, spiritually aware people shouldn't own guns." "I'd rather be raped than have some redneck militia type try to rescue me." How often have you heard these statements from misguided advocates of victim disarmament, or even woefully uninformed relatives and neighbors? Why do people cling so tightly to these beliefs, in the face of incontrovertible evidence that they are wrong? Why do they get so furiously angry when gun owners point out that their arguments are factually and logically incorrect? How can you communicate with these people who seem to be out of touch with reality and rational thought? One approach to help you deal with anti-gun people is to understand their psychological processes. Once you understand why these people behave so irrationally, you can communicate more effectively with them.

[Paul Troon]

Good point onepotatotwopotato,

There is an old saying that the difference between a liberal and a conservative is that a liberal has not been mugged or raped. Unfortunately this appears to be a truism.

If someone elects not to protect themselves, that is their choice, but they need to realize that the criminal will go on to victimize or kill others. And THAT is all of our business.

[humanbeinghuman]

"i'd rather be raped than have some redneck militia type try to rescue me"??? really?! someone said that??
just because this person is a psychiatrist doesn't mean she knows what she is talking about.

there is an old saying that the difference between a liberal and a conservative is that a liberal is not afraid that, at any moment, around every corner, someone is going to show up and mug or rape them.

[Gidster]

I am a Liberal, gun owner and a veteran.

I take umbrage at that "Truism"

[RTIII]

It's a pretty damned rare incident wherein the police actually protect you with a gun. Presence alone is the ONLY time they actually may "protect you." So far, all I've ever seen first hand is that the cops themselves are a huge risk and I don't really want to be around them, ever - I've seen too much bad behavior with my own eyes. That is, too many cops are nothing more than thugs themselves, making many of us scared of ALL cops. In fact, in many circumstances, I'd rather face an armed gunman I've never met than a cop.
.

[Tom Payned]

Cops are only called to a scene after the violence has already happened. Its not their fault, our laws do not allow a person to be arrested for what they might do, only for what they've done.

The act of violence may lead to the police becoming aware of someone perpetrating certain types of crimes, and with enough evidence, often coming from multiple crimes with multiple victims.

Additionally, the ratio of police to citizens is so low, they can't be every where.

Sometimes, we have to depend on ourselves and/or our fellow citizens.

And yes, I am a bleeding heart liberal, check out my bio and prior comments on other issues.

[bingvangorden]

Townhall.com is a joke wrapped up in deep paranoia Rightwingmarine.
Many liberals, despite the stereotype, actually want to own or own firearms. You don't have to misinterpret the 2nd Amendment to see the value in owning and knowing how to use one. And frankly, I'm thinking about it to protect myself from right wing extremists who have poisoned minds by right wing nut jobs. Not saying you're one, I'm just saying.

[djkrlsn]

Criminal activity does not correlate to politcal positions--there are criminally inclined radicals (William Ayres) and conservatives (skinheads)

[elitemicro]

What's so disturbing is that this group, GOProud, seems to be intentionally trying to deceive. Just yesterday in the Washington Independent: If they do go the amendment route, supporters of concealed carry reciprocity are confident that it would be passed as part of a hate crimes bill, and not become a poison pill that kills the entire package. “Every Republican senator is on the record with a position on hate crimes legislation,” said GOProud’s LaSilvia. “If this were to be attached, a vote for the bill could be explained as a vote for concealed carry. Gosh — what would happen when the Family Research Council realized that their people were voting for the ‘gay bill?’ It would put a bunch of people in a really weird position. It would be fun to watch.”

Today we find out from Chris Barron that GOProud doesn't even support the Bill: "While GOProud, the only national gay conservative group, doesn't take a position on the current hate crimes legislation ..."

[weatherwaxx]

Darlin, you show me a GOP group these days that ISN"T intentionally trying to deceive. It's all they've got left.

[JohnFromCensornati]

Oh, for sure. That's what we need. More people carrying guns around.

[klastos]

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/cacrime.htm

"Texas had 5.9 Murders per 100,000 people, ranking the state as having the 17th highest rate for Murder.."
"California had 6.1 Murders per 100,000 people, ranking the state as having the 16th highest rate for Murder "

Two states of roughly the same population and land mass, with comparable murder rates despite one having very tight gun control laws and one allowing CCP. The one with more guns has slightly less murders. Keep in mind Texas and California have the same problems with gangs in their major cities. Indiana where you can get a lifetime CCP for 100 bucks "had 5.8 Murders per 100,000 people, ranking the state as having the 19th highest rate for Murder."

I used to think gun control was a good idea until I looked at statistics and how poorly illegal gun trafficking is policed(I can get an AK47 illegally for less money than a legal 9mm pistol). A lot of major cities like DC have had very strict gun control laws which didn't relieve the murder rates at all, the root of crime isn't guns it's poverty.

[JohnFromCensornati]

Oh, for sure. That's what we need. More people carrying guns around.

[onepotatotwopotato]

Independent Gay Forum Gun Rights Are Gay Rights:

by Dale Carpenter First appeared in the Bay Area Reporter on February 14, 2008

http://www.indegayforum.org/topics/show/31456.html

[onepotatotwopotato]

Actually, being pro-gun and pro Second Amendment is very liberal.

"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." -- JOHN F. KENNEDY

"By calling attention to a well-regulated militia for the security of the Nation, and the right of each citizen to keep and bear arms, our Founding Fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of governmental tyranny, which gave rise to the second amendment, will ever be a major danger to our Nation, the amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic military-civilian relationships, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of the country. For that reason I believe the second amendment will always be important." -- JOHN F. KENNEDY

"The right of citizens to bear arms is just one more guarantee against arbitrary government, and one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible." -- HUBERT HUMPHREY

Gun bans don't disarm criminals, gun bans attract them. -- WALTER MONDALE

[JohnFromCensornati]

"Actually, being pro-gun and pro Second Amendment is very liberal."

Did I say otherwise? I can't find where I did.

[oldmark]

I am a gun owner, and have had a License to Carry a Firearm in Pennsylvania for 15 years. In my county there are AT LEAST 25,000 people with the license to carry. We have reciprocity with several states, but I fully support national carry rights for anyone who qualifies in their home state.
I carry every time I leave my home, and have had a gun in my hand "for real" once in 15 years. I had a similar outcome to that of the gentleman in your article - the 2 men who wanted my car turned and fled.

I am a lifelong Democrat, amd more left than most, and a lifelong supporter of second ammendment rights. People do not seem to realise how many millions of gun owning Americans are Democrats. May be we need to be a bit more vocal.
Thanks for this article.

mark

[Gidster]

Agreed!

Ditto!!

[slg]

With every citizen trained, licensed and armed, the crime rate will surely drop dramatically. Furthermore if the gentlemanly art of Dueling is reinstated the practice of Civility will enjoy a huge resurgence. It's a win win.

[ThinkCreeps]

Murders down, suicides and accidents up.

[Paul Troon]

"Furthermore if the gentlemanly art of Dueling is reinstated the practice of Civility will enjoy a huge resurgence. It's a win win."

-You REALLY believe that is going to happen?

[Gidster]

No. First there must be a Gentry to have Gentlemen.
Then a strict code of behavior.

[jhamm1]

"No matter what the left wants you to believe, the truth is that law-abiding gun use saves lives. Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self defense - that's 6,850 times a day in this country. "

ANd where are the statistics from, sweetheart? And more importantly, who authored them?

[Senzasord]

Agreed, and it is important to note that the gun does not need to be shot to stop a crime. Simply demonstrating to a would be attacker that you have the capacity and the will to defend yourself is most often enough to put them to flight. Those who have sought to obtain a legal concealed carry permit have the utmost respect for the responsibility they are incurring by carrying a gun. Despite the dire predictions of shoot out at the OK Corral, this never seems to materialize in any state that has a concealed carry law.

[RightWingMarine]

I believe you are looking for townhall.com. You're not likely to find many gun owners on this page.

[dexxjones]

you are wrong about that. i know many liberals who dont shriek at the mention of guns. i also dont buy into the bs that human beings dont have the right to self-defense.

i was sent this page by an VERY liberal gay uncle who lives in NOLA and is a gun owner.

the first thing i bought when i moved to florida was a gun.

this is one issue where "our side" is sharply divided, hate to tell ya

[klastos]

I believe gay marriage should be legal, don't really believe in god(and thus don't really support creationism or a religious state), want socialized medicine, think the president should pressure Israel on settlement so they don't continue apartheid in Palestine, think Marijuana should be legal , am pro choice and that the death penalty doesn't make any sense statistically.

I also happen to have a Carry Conceal Permit. If you want to alienate your allies then you go ahead with that.

[onepotatotwopotato]

Yes you are. Guns and CCW are not a Liberal - Conservative thing. It's a freedom vs. servitude thing.

[weatherwaxx]

We are getting to the point where more liberals in this country will probably want to buy guns--to protect themselves from the brain-dead yahoos who call themselves "christians' and think "thou shalt not kill" means "unless you feel like it."

The only ones winning in this are the arms manufacturers.

But the notion that more armed civilians is going to reduce the number of gun deaths -- what a crock.

[Cimms]

Wrong. I am a gun loving, pro-choice, liberal aethiest. I have a shotgun by the bed, a rifle in the gun safe, and a Glock concealed with me everywhere I am legally allowed to carry. I am on this page every day.