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Chris Kelly

Chris Kelly

Posted: May 12, 2009 05:35 AM

Meg Whitman Week -- Tuesday: The Gay Thing


Meg Whitman, putative frontrunner for the Republican nomination for Governor of California, wants to make something perfectly clear about the kind of leader she'll be: The kind who doesn't give a shit.

She'd like to cut corporate taxes and get rid of some regulations and that's it. On any issue but the bottom line, you're on your own. Here's twenty bucks. Now get out of here before I change my mind.

This kind of... oh, let's call it "vision"... lets her avoid a lot of baggage that would bog down your average candidate, who has a lot of fool "positions" on "issues." It also leads to some pretty funny reporting from people who expect her to care about the things that generally interest office-seekers. How can you characterize the opinions of someone who doesn't have any? You end up with scoops like this:

"So first of all, what you should know is I'm not running for governor based on social issues -- I'm running for governor to fix and really transform the California economy." said Whitman, a Presbyterian.

She's not a stealth candidate; that would imply she has something to hide. She truly hasn't given government any thought. It's not just that she hasn't voted very much. It's like she's spent the last fifty years being fed through a tube.

Which should make her the perfect Republican candidate for a Democratic state except for one thing: You're not allowed to not have an opinion about gay marriage.

Meg Whitman tried. And here's what she came up with:

"I want you to know I am all about equal rights and I want to make sure that gay and lesbian people are treated equally under the eyes of the law."

But:

"The reason that I voted 'yes' on Prop. 8 was that civil unions provide virtually all the rights and remedies to gay and lesbian couples that marriage does and my personal point of view is that the definition of 'marriage' is a religious term that should be between and man and a woman."

In other words:

Marriage is strictly a religious idea, and that's why I voted to have it written into state law.

And:

Gay people must have equal rights. And by "equal," I mean "not equal."

As Alan Bennett has the Headmaster say in Forty Years On -- "I'm all in favour of free expression, provided it's kept rigidly under control."

So why did a smart cookie like Meg Whitman choose to make the first political opinion of her life something so tortured we probably do it to detainees?

Because she knows she can't get win a general election without white women, and 53% of them support gay marriage, and she can't get the Republican nomination without Republicans, and 82% of them don't.

 
 
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03:44 AM on 05/13/2009
The GOP pretty much only cares about the bottom line across the board--at least she's honest and doesn't pretend to care about actual people.
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10:22 AM on 05/13/2009
Republicans love the people. They need the people to pay the off debts incurred so that corporations could profit.
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army193
02:23 AM on 05/13/2009
Hey Calif we had a man that ran the United States Government as a CEO/COO not sure who was who; from 2001-2008 how did that work out for ya? Government isn't a Business and never will be.
01:15 AM on 05/13/2009
I don't know if I've ever seen a candidate so audaciously partial. and what's up with the abrupt ending?
I think I hurt my neck
12:35 AM on 05/13/2009
If marriage is a religious institution, why don't the perform divorces?
08:20 AM on 05/13/2009
Why do religious officiates pronounce "By the power vested in me by the state of . . .?"
12:19 AM on 05/13/2009
Meg, maybe a little discussion with Archbishop Weakland will help you out. And Governor is not a CEO position.
CJ1
Love the Ignorant, hate the Ignorance
08:41 PM on 05/12/2009
Meanwhile, CA's anti-gay marriage group NOM has begun to disintegrate, with three of its six board members (Mormons) gone and a website that no longer even has a moderator...It's like a virtual dilapidated house on the verge of abandonment.
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08:22 PM on 05/12/2009
There is no secular argument to deny gay marriage that can stand up to more than a couple sentences of logic. Not one. The only argument against gays marrying is religious. Some religions say it's a sin to be gay. I guess it's a sin worse than murder, rape or stealing, since all those people can still marry, even in prison. Bottom line. America is not a Theocracy. Banning gay marriage is only supported by theocracy. Denying gays marriage is unjust. Besides, it denies freedom of religion to the religions that do support and perform gay marriage.
06:19 PM on 05/12/2009
So the state, under Meg Whtiman's governorship, will deny marriage licenses issued by the state to gays based on religious rule?

I don't think so, Meg. Better think again.
09:46 PM on 05/12/2009
Irrelevant unless Prop 8 is overturned.
11:27 PM on 05/12/2009
Its victory was slim and obviously on the wrong side of history. Liberty in America expands. This cannot be stopped.
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pfrogger
05:54 PM on 05/12/2009
you know I almost feel bad for the bigots. but not quite.

the truth is that in 20 years, gay marriage will be legal everywhere, and all of us, including our children will look back at these times and shake their heads and wonder how these bigots could think the way they do.

it's like civil rights. how many churches opposed it. interracial marriage. how many churches opposed it. the answer is a lot. (http://www.nbjcoalition.org/news/interracial-marriage-bans-vs.html)
(https://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/2005/198_Racial_Harmony_and_Interracial_Marriage/)

but we grow, we show progress. even now there those who believe black people are inferior and they should not marry white people. some believe God wanted it that way.
but when most of us hear that we either cringe, or feel sorry for that person, but we certainly don't tolerate it. it's seen as a primitive instinct of lesser minds. bigotry and racism are throwbacks to people living in caves and worshiping the sun.
that's the same way we will all feel in 20 years. we will look at this bigotry as a shameful and pathetic excuse for fear and hate that it is.
stay strong, and fight for equality. anything less is intolerance.
06:09 PM on 05/12/2009
Would you say that pretty much everyone throughout the history of our civilization is a bigot then, because they have always believed that a marriage was defined as between a man and a woman? The Dalai Lama?
Be honest and think back to 15 years ago...heck, even just ten years ago. Tolerance for homosexuality was hardly less than it is today, yet same sex marriage as a concept was pretty much unheard of--at least there was no serious debate about it. The truth is, this concept that you're a bigot if you don't want to change the definition of marriage is pretty new, and is based more on the political correctness du jour than on reality.
06:23 PM on 05/12/2009
"Be honest and think back to 15 years ago...heck, even just ten years ago. Tolerance for homosexuality was hardly less than it is today"

You are quite wrong. 20 years ago, a man could be convicted for felony commission of sodomy for merely cohabiting with another man (Bowers v. Hardwick), but just 5 years ago the SCOTUS declared that anti-sodomy laws are unconstitutional if they target gays only.
06:30 PM on 05/12/2009
So you still practice arranged marriage?

What about a dowry?

Do modern men own their submissive wives?

Weren't the people who fought against changing the definition of marriage, allowing inter-racial couples to partner, bigots?

We have changed "traditional" marriage several times just in the last century.
11:05 AM on 05/13/2009
yes, change is unbearably slow. in all cases it is the scourge of religion that holds back all progress like having to pull a big rock around. Yes, we will get there, and will look back and wonder how society was ever so screwed up, like we have done before on several issues. progress is slow, especially for whole societies. the ones that are totally ruined by religious contamination have no hope of recovery at all. If we continue to let the extremist religious ignorant bigots have power, then there will be no progress. You cannot let the monkeys run the zoo though and decency, REAL decency, morality, REAL morality will eventually win out over the ignorance and bigotry that passes for morality and enlightenment by some today.
05:52 PM on 05/12/2009
Why not just get government out of the business of marrying people altogether? For straights and gays. I agree with her that marriage is a faith-based concept. The state should only be concerned about the social contract between 2 consenting adults- property rights, tax status, etc. End of controversy.
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thismachinekillsfascists
Exposing the GOP Lie-machine
07:13 PM on 05/12/2009
So those who don't adhere to christian faith can't get married then?

What about the atheists? Do you deny them their rights also?
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08:11 PM on 05/12/2009
Civil Unions would be what the state sanctioned for everyone. You know the Constitutional guarantee of equal protection under the law for all citizens. Any church that wants to can perform a marriage. Just as many churches, including Christian churches, perform gay marriages now. No law would ever say a church can't perform a marriage. Gays are married in every state in America right now. Whether the state says they can or not.
07:26 PM on 05/12/2009
I agree. We should ALL get civil unions. Marriage licensing statutes should be replaced by civil union licensing statutes. And only judges and justices should be authorized to perform the ceremony. That is how it is done in Mexico (although they have yet to follow the logic that gays can get civil unions) - you get civilly married, and then you have a wedding in the Church, but if you skip the civil ceremony, you are not legally married, even if your priest performs a wedding ceremony.
05:49 PM on 05/12/2009
If the state gave gay couples every single right and benefit that it gives to actual marriages, how is it a civil rights issue that the state not call it a marriage? Changing the definition of a thing to fit one's preference is not a civil right.
Like it or not, there are fundamental differences between men and a women, therefore there are fundamental differences between a loving committed relationship between a man and a woman and a loving committed relationship between a man and a man or a woman and a woman.
Though pens and pencils are both writing utensils and can do many of the same things, we know that they are made differently and operate differently; therefore, we don't call both things "pens".
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pfrogger
06:03 PM on 05/12/2009
wow, rationalize bigotry mush?

you don't have to like it. no one cares. equality is equality.
and gay couples do NOT have the same rights. civil unions do NOT give the same rights. and they should not have to be treated differently to satisfy your bigotry.
move to a extremist country where they stone homosexuals. you'll fit in just fine there.
PS don't tell them you're Christian. they tend not to like it that much.
06:53 PM on 05/12/2009
Can you cut the hyperbole for a sec?

My question was a hypothetical (see the word "if"). IF the state gave gay couples (or any couple, for that matter) the same civil rights as it gives actual marriages, there is no civil rights issue that a thing be called what it is and not be called what it is not.
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SUIGENEROUSLA
06:39 PM on 05/12/2009
gay people only have any kind of partnership rights in 9 states.

in fact, gay people can be legally fired, denied housing, or public accomodation -- a seat in a restaurant, or help from a doctor solely because of being gay in 30 states in this country today.
07:36 PM on 05/12/2009
No one should be denied their basic human dignity, and certainly cases of that being done to people because they are gay occur and are wrong. But there is a delecate line to walk where you can trample on the individual rights of either side when it comes to hammering out laws concerning discrimination, because there is a difference between discriminating against personal characteristics and discriminating against personal behavior. [Example: in general, a person being denied housing is bad, but an individual renting out a room in his house should not be forced to forfeit his rights to be free from condoning behavior in his home with which he believes is wrong.]

Also, I think you're confusing "help from a doctor" with getting health insurance through a partner's work or something. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me with some facts, but I have never heard of any doctor denying someone needed medical care because of their sexual preference.
05:33 PM on 05/12/2009
The supprt for gay marriage among women is dropping rapidly. Your stats are not correct at all. Where did you get them and how do they compare with other valid stats that show different results.
CJ1
Love the Ignorant, hate the Ignorance
05:53 PM on 05/12/2009
Uh, there ya go lying again...neocon arguments: religious, dishonest, or irrelevant.
CJ1
Love the Ignorant, hate the Ignorance
05:57 PM on 05/12/2009
People don't generally don't overcome misconceptions or bias, consider something like this to be positive, and then change their minds. ("Gee, on second thought, maybe gay marriage will ruin my marriage! I mean, look how Massachusetts fell into the Atlantic ocean after gay marriage started?)
DUH. Nice try, but your comment blatantly transparent LIE.
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06:33 PM on 05/12/2009
I support gay marriage among women - oh, that's not what you meant, is it?
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jmpurser
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05:23 PM on 05/12/2009
Can we get some sort of federal disaster relief for CA? I mean those people need HELP picking a Governor. It's clear they just can't manage the task on their own.
05:29 PM on 05/12/2009
Hey, bugger off. We've not done too badly, and furthermore, she hasn't won yet.
CJ1
Love the Ignorant, hate the Ignorance
05:53 PM on 05/12/2009
What happened to AHnald? I thought he was doing a fine job!
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06:33 PM on 05/12/2009
You must not be a CA resident - he's about as popular as Bush was in his final months in office...
04:40 PM on 05/12/2009
I am looking forward to the first debate, which will presumable be between Meg and Miss California.

And no, I can't tell who will win.
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speakyourmind
Really?
05:06 PM on 05/12/2009
Ever see the movie "Dumb and Dumber"?
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pfrogger
05:38 PM on 05/12/2009
ya, but who's dumber?
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04:38 PM on 05/12/2009
Whitman's position on gay marriage is ostensibly the same as Obama's (and both Clintons'). All favor civil unions over "marriage".

If this criticism of Whitman disqualifies her to be governor based on this issue, then you would presumptively disqualify Obama or the Clintons from holding similar offices.
05:20 PM on 05/12/2009
Excellent question. Any honest answers that won't just equivocate and rationalize?
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jmpurser
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05:23 PM on 05/12/2009
Way to understand about 10% of an argument!