She Blew the Whistle on Bush and Blair, Now Former Spy Katherine Gun Assesses Obama and McCain

It's likely that most Americans have never heard of Katherine Gun. She is the former British secret service officer who leaked an email describing a plot orchestrated by the Bush and Blair administrations to force the hand of the United Nations in authorizing the invasion of Iraq. Gun was put on trial for leaking the email and the story garnered wide coverage in Europe. Unsurprisingly, in the hype that characterized the runup to the war here in the States, the story received little media play.

The larger story is being told for the first time in long form. PoliPoint Press has just released "The Spy Who Tried to Stop A War," Gun's story as written by Marcia and Thomas Mitchell, the former a senior executive for the Corporation of Public Broadcasting, the latter a former FBI special agent.

Off the Bus caught up with Gun on her recent trip to the U.S.

Off the Bus: How is the public and the traditional media responding to your story now as opposed to when you blew the whistle in 2003?

Katherine Gun: Well, I guess the response is much the same, actually. Everyone who reads about it in the mainstream media is just surprised about what was going on at the time. When my charges were dropped in 2004, almost 99.9 percent of people were supportive. I was on the "Diane Rehm Show" recently and many called in to say they supported me.

In your opinion why did the European media pay more attention to your story as opposed to the American media who did not? Does the European media function differently?

That's a good question. I'm not entirely sure myself. I attended a symposium at American University recently and one of the guests was The New Statesman's Martin Bright. Bright published the story on the leak in 2003. He said, in the U.S., the general assumption is there should be no secrets and information should be made public at all times. Whereas in the U.K., it's the opposite: the assumption is everything is secret. So when journalists get a top secret piece of information, they feel duty-bound to make it public in the U.K. Whereas, you suspect, in the U.S., if journalists get a top secret piece of information, the immediate reaction is, "Oh, well, there must be a reason why this is top secret. So we need to keep quiet about it."

The era of Tony Blair and George Bush has basically ended. What would you like to see happen: more transparency and accountability in government security operations? Charges brought against Blair and Bush for misleading their countries?

There are a lot of things I'd like to see. In the ideal world, transparency and accountability at all levels would be a good thing. But here in the U.S., you already have a Constitution. All of your public officials swear an oath to uphold and protect the Constitution. It seems to me that members of officialdom should be made to re-appraise their oath to the Constitution and see if what they do is in conflict with that. In many cases they are in conflict; they're breaking their oath. Of course it would also be good to see Blair, Bush and others held accountable for what we now know were blatant lies and deception. When the government starts beating the drums of war, the traditional media tends to bend over backward to support it. Just because the media says something, it's not necessarily the case. We need to do our own research and turn to alternative sources of media.

Much is being made now in the U.S. on the question of who is prepared to be commander in chief, who has the qualities to keep our nation safe, and so on... As someone who has worked in the intelligence field, who do you think could tackle intelligence issues better: Barack Obama or John McCain?

Obviously my personal preference is Obama and Biden. I think you need a new administration with new faces, people who are willing to look at diplomacy, who are pragmatic, people who see both sides of the coin, who are not dogmatic and can see the future is going to be difficult -- not just for the U.S. but the whole world, especially in relation to world's resources, the level of living we are accustomed to and whether it's sustainable for the future.

Given that key information related to major issues and policy decisions remains classified, how can voters best make decisions on the issues? In your view, how do we address that problem in a democracy, the "just trust us on this one" approach to governance?

Obviously there are hundreds of officials who have access to classified information. Intelligence is just the exact opposite of what the leadership is expressing. When it came to Iraq, I had no idea that I would receive that e-mail. I didn't have that many insights because I wasn't working in that field. I was working in China. So I did my own research. I bought books, such as Target Iraq by Normon Solomon, and I made an effort to educate myself about the issues, rather than accepting everything being said by Blair and Bush hook, line, and sinker. I do, I think you can educate yourself to make an informed decision.

In hindsight, how do you weigh Obama's vote against the war? What do you think was his motivation for doing so and why didn't more U.S. lawmakers stand against it as they did in the U.K.?

Well, yeah, surprisingly, there weren't that many in the Parliament who supported the war. [ Parliament] was told by Blair that the legality of the war would hold; that it was justified and former Attorney General Peter Goldsmith provided the backup with a one-page document.

Looking at the document now, it surprises me the members of Parliament who did read it did not have the intelligence to come up with their own assessments. With regard to the U.S., it's pretty much the same. I suspect that Congress was probably in the dark and took the word of secretary of state Colin Powell, vice-president Dick Cheney, and president Bush and believed the hype that was going on. The traditional media was at fault because there were a lot of alternative voices speaking out and saying that this just wasn't true. Those voices of course just never got the coverage that the Bush administration was getting.

I doubt very much whether [Obama] knew things other people didn't know. He was no doubt looking at the same material other members of Congress were looking at. I suspect Obama is extremely intelligent and I also suspect he will utilize the intelligence he receives and decide when war is justified or not. Saddam did not directly threaten the U.K. or the U.S., so a preemptive attack was contrary to the U.N. Geneva Conventions. There was also no genocide going on at that time and U.N. weapons inspector Scott Ritter said that the inspections team had dismantled 95 percent of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. The weapons they did have were beyond use.

Follow Christian Avard on Twitter: www.twitter.com/ChristianAvard

Comments

[militantatheist]

Regarding that last question.

Obama didn't VOTE for or against the war because he wasn't in the Senate yet!

Why do people keep giving him credit for a vote he not only didn't make, but couldn't since he was serving in the Illinois statehouse at the time?

Sure, he SAYS he would've voted against it, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I also doubt very much that an Illinois STATE senator had access to the "same material other members of Congress were looking at".

I wish he had been able to vote NO, I wish he'd been able to vote period. Maybe if he HAD been in the U.S. Senate at the time he could've talked some sense into a few of those idots...we will never know tho, because it didn't happen.

I'm surprised that these facts continue to get mis-reported, it''s actually quite disappointing. The guy doesn't need revisionist history to win votes.

[jjoshaugh]

In a speech in October 2002, before he had even announced his senate candidacy (though he was positioning for it), Obama made an address to an anti war rally where he came out solidly against the war. In 2003 he correctly predicted the sectarian violence between Sunnis and Shia, long before it had begun. He cannot legitimately call himself the earliest and loudest voice that spoke up against the war and he did it before the war had even begun.

He also calls that speech the one he is most proud of, as it happens.

[militantatheist]

Regarding that last question.

Obama didn't VOTE for or against the war because he wasn't in the Senate yet!

Why do people keep giving him credit for a vote he not only didn't make, but cou

[jjoshaugh]

He make a speech against the war to an anti war rally in October 2002 when he was positioning to make his run for senate but had not announced his candidacy yet. He was on the record against the war long before anyone else was.

[Jules1]

I forgot to add, my son spends time overseas and he came back the first time and said "Mom we are so lied to" people we are birds in a cage and we need to demand more, we are fools for believeing all the media tells us, they are bought and paid for.

[Jules1]

People need to start listening to activist more, and people like Kennedy, Maddow etc. Raw story is always a good place and they have many links.

[ohiovoter54]

I almost had to laugh at this story. "Why didn't anyone hear about this?" Hello...th­ere thousands of intelligent people in the US that read the overseas papers online. The mainstream sold out years ago. We all know the lies and deceit of the Bush administra­tion....bu­t you know what? If we point these things out we're called unAmerican, traitors, nutcases..­.etc. Look at what's going on in the McCain campaign. Same thing. "If you like Obama you must like terrorists­." I agree with so many others, McCain has started something very evil.

[lemonyashes]

Hey Ron Suskind a pulitzer prize winning author was called crazy for writing the wonderful book "The Way of the World". I don't know how anyone could be called crazy for writing that piece of literature, but only because it contradicts the Bush Administration he must be.

[df26]

When Freedom is so casually cast aside and not desired..I­gnorance and hate of it usually hurry to replace it..Freedo­m is a light in the room that must fill the Heart of the House..All­owing the roaring Lion of Hate to think himself foolishly.­.To be greater than the humility often found in the simple but graceful will of the lowly Mouse..
When the pursuit of Truth is replaced by distrust. Hate stupidity and anger will always seek..firs­t to occupy these odorous vessels that stink..Wis­hing to embolden those with no desire or very limited capacity to think..Cau­sing many among them..To soon seek the evil..Even greater bitter nectar of violence..­As their primary and principal choice of Ignorance to drink..See McCain Palin 2008

[selu]

The last question in this interview makes no sense. Obama did not vote and he was not in congress!

He simply had the good sense that millions of people all over the world had to know that it made no sense at all that Sadam was suddenly a grave danger to anyone. He simply did not have his head stuck where the sun doesn't shine.

[scared4ALL]

Hero's lke Katherine Gun will be what saves "US" all...And they are many...

[Rosanneofpgh]

Its shocking to realize that the average us citizen just doesnt give a damn about anything that makes them uncomfortable or that requires sacrifice on their part. Many young people I know are completely ignorant about the patriot act (a most UNPATRIOTIC act), suspension of habeas corpus (they have NO idea what habeas corpus means!) Illegal wiretapping is fine with them, (I have nothing to hide, the govt can wiretap me all they want!) Their ignorance is appalling!!

We are a nation of ostriches with our collective heads in the sand while our butts are being shot off!! Pathetic!

I NEVER watch the msm or read the msm newspapers. I gave up on Newsweek when I learned (online) that they were publishing a different lead story for Europe than they were publishing for the usa. I get all the information I need online. There are so many foreign newspapers available that there is no excuse, except complete and utter laziness, for not knowing whats going on in our country and the world.

[ebanks84]

Americans have been PROGRAMMED for eons into a "malaise" state that accepts whatever the government tells them. They have long since lost their FREE WILL to evaluate or investigate. In this new era of the 21st century, Americans are finally WAKING UP and seeing the REAL TRUTH behind all the LIES and FALSE FACES. And that is because we must evolve into the humans we are supposed to be. That's why we need this change where truth will eventually prevail and the wicked shall receive their karmatic rewards accordingly.

[joeyfoto]

Ms. Gun almost stopped the war in Iraq. Your story didn't touch on the precarious legal position she placed herself in by leaking that memo or the threats of prosecution that followed. But the fact is Katherine Gun is a hero, She told the truth while both Bush & Blair began an illegal war with schemes covered up by lies. It is they who belong in the docks at Old Bailey; she deserves the gratitude of free people everywhere.

This story is a big deal but the bigger deal is that it is covered off-the-bus an not on the Front Page above the masthead of every major newspaper in America, where the criminals who lied to start this war hide behind a smoke screen that is the ignorance of the American people.

re Jane48: I reiterate the comment made by the previous writer. If you don't travel at least listen to BBC news and read web pages from outside Amerika or consent to being treated like a mushroom..­. you know: Kept i in the dark & fed horse s**t.

[judesedit]

Thank you for finally getting the truth out in this country. Sadly, there are many other fairy tales the people in this country are told and fall for. They mistakenly think their government wouldn't lie to them. How naive is that? Other countries know more about what's going on here than we do. And many times, once the truth is told to them, they still don't believe it. It's really pathetic. Especially, when there's a world of information right at your fingertips. You don't even have to move off of your butt to find it. How many people have died and been maimed for this lie?

[UCSD101]

Judesedit, you are so right. It's breaks my heart that most people are to lazy to even keep up with what's going on in within our goverment. They are more concerned with Hollywood. Aiaiyaiy!!!

Now it's almost late to stop the damage .... but we will keep trying.

WE MUST FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!

Obama - Biden for agreat American future.

[littlejohnpa]

You can always use BBC `listen again` facility - the Today Programme is the top radio news programme and takes no prisoners.

Go to www.bbc.co.uk and look for 2:10 (2 hours 10 mins) the `8:10 slot` is the most coveted. Other than that try going to programmes like `Newsnight`.

The other thing is to look at articles by papers such as `The Independent`.

[rblaquinta]

Sadly, so true.

[Jane48]

The reporter asked Ms. Gun why she thought the incident wasn't reported in the U.S.
The truth is that the media in the U.S. is highly censored! If you spend anytime outside of this country you should pick up a newspaper or even watch a new station, and you will quickly discover that the news flows much more freely in other first-world countries than it does here in the U.S. We talk about having 'freedom of speech', but the reality is that so few Americans travel abroad and pay attention to the media abroad. Very different, and a bit shocking to realize the U.S. is as censored as it is.

[Vinca]

Jane48: You are exactly right, Our news media is SO CONTROLLED, People often talk about stories from the British newspaper , The Guardian