Adultolesence: The Difference Between Men Who Won't Grow Up And Men Who Just Wanna Have Fun
Dear Christine,
I have a friend whose lifestyle bothers me - half of me is envious and half of me is concerned. Since college graduation, I've been busting my tail to build a good future for myself. Meanwhile my friend seems content to work at low paying jobs that aren't going to take him anywhere and spends his free time partying, chasing girls, or doing other things he really can't afford but puts on his credit card - like a recent trip to Rio. It's like he's regressing to a really immature teenager, yet he seems to be having a lot more fun than me. Do I try to encourage him to grow up or do I take a cue from him and start enjoying my 'glory days' more? ~Bewildered Best Friend, 28, Los Angeles
Dear Bewildered Best Friend,
Sounds like your friend has a severe case of "adult-olescence;" his mindset is far below his numeric age and he continues to play at being an adolescent when he's really an adult. I often refer to it as the "Peter Pan Syndrome." Your friend is in Neverland -- a place outside of time where you get the freedoms of adulthood without all of the adult responsibilities of mortgages, spouses, children, aging parents, and all the other things that make eternal adolescence seem so appealing! But it can be a form of escapism, denial, and delayed adulthood, and it's accomplished by a lot of play, feelings of invincibility, and self-obsession.
So what do you do as his friend? Let's address the jealousy first. I'm sure listening to his stories about hooking up with Brazilian girls makes your cubicle driven life seem pathetic. On the surface, the Peter Pan Syndrome sounds attractive, but don't get too green with envy -- every Peter Pan eventually wakes up. In fact, underneath, most Peter Pans feel a twinge of fear and long for a sense of purpose. Living a fast-paced life while racking up debt is basically a way to avoid growing up. Your friend is using this carefree lifestyle as a way to ignore the underlying questions about the lack of direction he feels. His trips to Neverland will eventually come with reality checks - but it's not your job to give them to him.
All you can do is share from your own experience while not lecturing him so that your intent won't come off as condescending, nagging, or envious. Also, if you are consistently complaining about your job or the stress in your life, you aren't really the best poster-child for the responsibility route. Talk about the wins you are having along your career path and what you are learning about money. As he sees you achieving success in your life hopefully he will begin to see his choices and behavior are not supporting any long-term goals.
Also make sure you aren't inadvertently enabling his irresponsibility. Don't go along for evenings out all the time if you don't want to deal with adolescent behavior. If you think something he's doing is stupid, don't play along. And don't lend him any money if he's a little short and needs to get by. Let him know you will be happy to help him learn how to manage his money, but that you won't be a crutch. Take a look at the people he hangs out with the most. If they all have the same mindset, then he is remaining in a delusional comfort zone. Maybe reconnect him with old friends who are working towards goals. Keep in mind you can show your friend the possibilities, but it will be his choice to start learning and growing. If you try to force him, it may lead to feelings of resentment in your friendship. Sure, you don't like the image of him you see in 10 years if he doesn't change, but that is his life, not yours.
And speaking of your life, yes, you do need to take a cue from him in terms of having some fun. If your life is all work and no play, you are going to eventually burn out. It's important to do the things you really want to do before you have even more grown-up responsibilities. Life is all about balance, so don't neglect the guy inside who wants to have some fun. Every once in a while know it is ok to give yourself a trip to Neverland.
-Christine
Please send me your questions by posting them in the comments section below. You can also email me at christine@huffingtonpost.com
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Speaking of immaturity, can someone explain this, since "he" won't? Out of the blue I was contacted by a guy I had a brief relationship with years ago. He lived a few hrs from where I recently moved to. He's a divorced PhD. It seemed his "myspace" page said he was in a relationship at that time (so why contact me?) but he made it sound more casual (I wondered if he was getting out). I saw him once. He was supposed to visit his mother (in my area) but I never saw him. He had some odd story as to why. In between he went away (partly business) and I did too (work). He still emailed me and seemed to express great interest in seeing me. He still seemed to do so when I got back and made it a point to say he wasn't going anywhere in July (like he'd be available). But I find out via a little myspace checking that a pal of this gf is congratulating her for moving in with him, posting the comment just after I got back. Whaaat!? I'm floored.
Note: men aren't the only ones who have this problem of "adultolescence"
I'm a young professional female...my group of female friends is divided. I'm part of the group that went to school, worked during school and came out with a degree AND work experience--landing a job that required both....We are all make around the same salary and are starting our MA, MBA, CPA training. Whatever...you're already bored with this story...let me describe the other girls...
The other group consists of the girls who had parents who paid for their undergrad, partied and had the "C's get degrees" attitude...majored in Comm or Psych and now work either in as cocktail waitresses or are in "sales." Their jobs are between 15K-30K less than ours--but their hours afford them the ability to go out during the week and to arrive hung over to work the next day. They are ultimately "party girls" who are tons of fun...but they're swimming in debt while continuing to buy the newest LV purse....All of them are partying and are hoping for the rich husband who will bail them out of the debt and allow them to quit their jobs.
In any event, I'm glad I'm part of the first group...independent women who will choose the man who will be her partner not her provider...also, we will be able to afford awesome girls trips later on in life...maybe I'll buy a yaht? ;)
Hugh mistake of terms. To grow old is a fact, to grow up is a choice!
Those who practice nutrition, fitness with spiritial understanding know the difference. The rest are envious, yet they are who they are because of the choices they have made in life. When one realizes that you are responsible for the choices you have made, responsible for the consequences of those same choices, only then can you know why you are at any given moment of time on your life. The others who do not practice this always blame the World or others for their failures, and not the person they see in the mirror every day!
meanwhile- o so predictably- the guy like you being real responsible in the next cubicle is totally invisible- couldn't get the time of day. your peter pan guy has, however, succeeded brilliantly. he has your attention. he is in your thoughts. peter pan doesn't want to go to brazil- he wants your attention. he has it and he knows that as soon as he becomes responsible- you'll forget all about him.
Well, go ahead and have fun, but as already stated not on a creditcard. Here is one thing you should consider first: what are you going to be when you grow up, and when will that be? Doing any preparation for that? I mean, you do not want me to come over and spank your butt, do you? I am old, stop fantasizing! I know some men, who at age 55 still have not decided what they will be when they grow up and they do not have the means to indulge in procrastination.
I wish more people would stop and think and NOT get married. What is this fascination with so many people that being married equals growing up? Bitter divorces, custody agreements....why is that maturity? And don't say "not everybody ends up that way." More do than don't.
Terrible advice. This "Peter Pan" is doing things the way we all should. We'll -never- have our twenties back once they are gone. YOU are leeching YOUR life away in a cubicle. Day by day as your ass spreads, your hair begins to fall out, and you work on getting carpel tunnel. THAT is the "responsible" life you think your friend should be aspiring to?
He's off having lots of fun, making incredible memories, and probably building valuable social leadership skills. I bet he can stretch a dollar farther than you. I bet he also has the planning skills necessary to create elaborate trips/vacations for cheap. Do you?
Let's look at the hippies from the 60's and how they turned out. Most of them have HUGE life experiences behind them that make them interesting and experienced in something other than how to get fat in a cubicle. When they finally sat down and "got to work" on building their futures they did it big and many of them are now living better than their peers who did "the right thing" working a 9-5.
Someday your friend is going to say "okay, I've done everything I wanted to do, and now I want to explore building something permanent" and you know what? He'll do it, and he'll do it better than you ever could because of all the time he spent creating impermanent greatness in his 20's and 30's.
Spreading backsides, male-pattern baldness and wrist injuries are consequences of getting older, not being responsible. What becomes of these people when their parents and/or siblings die? What happens when their "friends" desert them after using them up? When does your "someday" happen? Janis Joplin and Jimmi Hendrix died, as did many other "hippies" from the '60s, before they reached 40, remember? Hedonism is pretty sexy until you actually look at it from all the angles.
I have a friend who's 39 but acts 19. He's an alcoholic. He sits in front of the TV and complains that he can't find a special woman. He brags about the women he's banged and abandoned but says he wants a nice girl his own age. He's self-centered. He pays his bills late, when he pays them at all. I've known him for almost 20 years. We're roommates right now, but sometimes I just want to run him down with my car. Most of the time that would entail running my car into and through the bars he frequents.
He once said to me, during a moment of clarity while on a bender, that he drinks to hide his true feelings. Yathink?! He does what he does to avoid dealing with who he really is. He does what he does to avoid making the adult choices the rest of us have to make.
A man once said that once he became a man, he put aside childish things.
Hedonism requires serious commitment. But there are rewards for the faithful.
The tradtional social structures that allowed people to trust in institutions like work, childrearing and building for the future have been eroded. Katrina, Enron, Climate change, the mortgage debacle, the falling dollar, rising gas prices. It's not much of an incentive to build for the future. Living for pleasure alone however....
I totally disagree Econmike. The rest of us are living our lives and enjoying work, childrearing and building for the future.
Its only one step further to excuse the behavior of those Peter Pans. But they are hustling as much as any other - its just that they are able to hide the agonies of being alone and isolated until they become aged and laughable, pretending to be forever powerful and in control.
Who's to say a life of wine women and song and bar hopping on ones Harley isn't enjoying life every bit as much.
Give it a break. No excuses. Bad stuff happens. Get up and do something. You have a right to live the way you want, but you take responsibility for your choices. I don't care if you work or not, just don't ask me to support you. I'm a liberal, but I don't like hanging out with professional victims.
I'm merely suggesting that an existential approach to life might be more attuned to the times.
I've got a college buddy who fits this description. While I was slaving away in a cube job in my 20s and early 30s, he was travelling the world as a freelance photographer, not making a lot of money and racking up significant credit card debt. But he was having a lot of fun
Now, we're in our 40s.
I work in a big office with nice windows. I've got a nice house and wonderful family. My kids have college funds. We have health insurance. We have no debt. We travel. We're having lots of fun.
He lives with his elderly mother. He's declared bankrupcy. He's worked a series of menial jobs that he keeps quitting because he thinks that with his degree, he shouldn't have to start at an entry-level job, or that he should at least be promoted to management within six months. He still goes to clubs to meet chicks, but the twenty-somethings there view his 40s balding paunch as 'the old guy in the club.' He has high blood pressure, but no health insurance.
I feel bad for him, but he's never been one to listen to advice.
At least he didn't become an accessory to corporate crimes against humanity.
Oh he's trying, but he can't get past the opening interview.
ha, that's funny. Sounds like you really feel bad for him. I think you are having a good time gloating is what I think. You measure your success against your perception of his failure. I think its sad how you think and sadly many people are like you
Gloating? You have no f...ing idea what you're talking about. He's one of my very best friends and I do like hanging out with him.
Tell me, seeing you answered my post-- what am I supposed to do, eh? I can't very well give him a handout. He's never listened to anyone's advice (even when his mother nags him about keeping a job), so I'm not going to nag him about his state of affairs.
What do you want me to do, cut him off? Tell him to lose my number? Not gonna happen.
I think that you're actually projecting-- you see yourself in my description of him and you see me as gloating over you.
The greatest regrets in life come from what you didn't do. If this guy has been working his butt off since college, (6 years at a guess), he hasn't done a lot of what he should have, and could still be.
How many men who write/create art, movies, move money, invent technologies, etc. are "grown up" in the traditional sense of the idea (or women, for that matter?). Doesn't "grow up" here basically mean, "stop dreaming, get a real job, pay the bills, and pay more attention to me?" And why on earth would that be appealing to anyone?
I mean, think about it -- wouldn't it be delightful if not only men but women didn't grow up so fast, and were allowed to fantasize and play for a while, and enjoyed some Peter Pan (Pam?) time of their own? Our world might look a lot different if we allowed less "grown up time" and a lot more creative, fun time. Of course, these are the concerns of a materialist society that can afford to care about "being grown up" or "having fun" -- when you don't struggle for your very survival, you can think about that screenplay you've always wanted to write or that vacation in Rio you've always wanted to take or those Japanese toys you've always wanted to collect.
Other than material consumption and status, what is the huge drive to be older? What does that fantasy represent to those who desire it?
Or am I being too harsh on the women who demand a certain maturity from their Peter Pan-men?
Thanks for your comments, Peter
I don't think that anything in this article said, "stop dreaming." Much less, "pay more attention to me." And there's nothing there with a woman telling her husband what he should be doing.
The article is about guys who hit the clubs every night, take expensive vacations that they finance, and partake in other fiscally irresponsible behavior. In other words, they guys you know who live doing things on a whim instead of planning for doing what they've "always wanted to." There's a big difference there.
There's nothing wrong with a bit of fiscal irresponsibility, but when it becomes a way of life, there's a problem.
Its more of the implied judgmental attitude that is the under current in this article. Let people live there lives. Don't judge without knowing all the facts or at all. Women refer to men in this way often and it must be that innate need to find a man that can provide safety and security.
I think its better to stay single. You need sex even less as you get older, too. No nagging and peaceful independence.
How many men who write/create art, movies, move money, invent technologies, etc. are "grown up" in the traditional sense of the idea (or women, for that matter?).
Plenty of men and women do this, and the successful ones have WORKED HARD for their success. Even if they were born into the business, they still have to WORK HARD to succeed.
Don't use my dime to pay for your growing up time.
lots of people WORK HARD, but only some GET LUCKY. Mexicans WORK HARD cleaning up after you. WORK SMARTER is a better phrase. America rewards WORKING SMARTER not HARDER
Yes, the back breaking labor of typing out a screenplay in the middle of a Starbucks and hoping someone discovers you...
Do some construction and then tell me that writers and professional artists WORK HARD. I've worked as an editor and in construction.. Also no where in the article does it say that anyone is doing a thing on your dime. I'd rather my 'dime' went to someone's growing up time than someone's blowing up time like it already does. More Adultolescents, less grown-ups playing Stratego and Build-A-Fort with people's lives. I dont want my dime going to pay for bigger pop guns in our eternal Cowboys and Indians game.
Sure, they worked hard -- I certainly did/have ; and I'm not asking you to pay for "growing up" time I don't want or didn't ask for. I was simply asking what is the fantasy of "growing up?" It's my experience, especially with the kids I teach, that the "young ones" -- particularly the ones who don't conform to the norms, and worry about societal judgements -- are some of the best when it comes to invention and innovation.
As someone else said, there's a lot of "implied judgement" in the idea of growing up. And I can't really find an answer to the question -- what is the fantasy for most of the "grown up" man, other than someone that pays the bills?
I've long been interested the notion of "growing up," especially as it relates to men and women and their long term relationships -- and even more specifically as it relates to the fantasies of each.
I've had a number of female friends who roll their eyes at their mate's behavior, wondering just when they're going to stop being kids and grow up. My question to the woman is always: and do what, exactly? Just what should these men be doing with their time instead of being playful and having fun in a way that makes them happy? The answers are iffy at best and they usually revolve around the men more dutiful -- helping with chores, children, and spending time doing the things the girlfriends/wives seem to feel are important (whatever those things may be, and sometimes they're playful...and sometimes it's just about spending quality romantic time with them).
I'm painting with broad strokes, obviously -- this is just my experience -- but I'm always want to ask the woman who wants her husband to "grow up" -- why, exactly? To what end? What is the fantasy of a grown-up man? How does he fill his time if he's not playing, partying, surfing? Is his bank account always full? Is your house everything you've dreamed because he has a "real" job? Does he not dream about far away places or get excited by the construction of toys or ogle another pretty girl when you're not looking?
I enjoyed my share of "adult-olescence" not to mention pretty damn good at it. So good in fact I am tempted to structure an entire family life around it. I think the man is living his life, if he is in fact 28 he has plenty of time to become a devoted servant of the status quo. The status quo is not going anywhere and their are plenty of young women who benefit from young men going abroad, partying their butts off, or just doing nothing. Supply and demand, you could say he is pushing up wages for those who are working hard.
As far as being a fun loving adult the key is to parlay your good times into profit. Me and some friends though house parties in college, he went on to make a business out of it. If you want to go abroad consider doing some importing or exporting there are always opportunities. If you just want to do nothing all the time, best thing is to live with your parents save up a few thousand dollars then go to a third world country and live on the cheap. That wont run up a credit card bill. People spending on their credit cards are self indulgent fools in my opinion. That has nothing to do with being childish, its about being a victim of a materialistic culture.
Not wanting to grow up makes sense. Never growing up, would be cultural suicide.
Some friends and I. Grow up, wouldja?
i have to agree. my friends laughed at me for going to music school but now they're all stuck in office jobs with no real chances of promotion. they have children they hardly see and they spend all their money trying to "keep up with the jones's" in suburbia. i travel regionally playing blues and teaching kids to play a variety of instruments and styles of music. my wife and i can come and go as we please, we're not tied down to a house or mcmansion, and we're not forced to deal with boring parents or suburban group think. we're never going to be rich monetarily, but the freedom and fun is priceless. i guess i'm saying not everyone has the same american dream and that is just fine.
I don't see how you think of yourself as fitting into the category of Adultolesence. Teaching kids to play music hardly relates to adolescent slackerdom. I think you're selling yourself short. As I think you already know, there are other riches than money.
Do you really see yourself as being the same as someone who "spends his free time partying, chasing girls, or doing other things he really can't afford but puts on his credit card - like a recent trip to Rio."
I mean, how can anyone (other than a Rush Limbaugh-type) relate any position in the arts to being a slacker? Most artists I know (my wife included) work 12+ hour days.
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