Why Many Catholics are Confused About Torture

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Posted May 5, 2008 | 10:36 AM (EST)



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Torture and the Courage to be Inconvenienced was the name of the talk scheduled to be given by University of Minnesota Professor of Medicine and Bioethics Dr. Steven Miles yesterday morning, Sunday, May 4th, at St. Joan of Arc Catholic Church in Minneapolis (which I attend). Dr. Miles is an expert on this topic, having written the book: Oath Betrayed: Torture, Medical Complicity and the War on Terror. But the Catholic hierarchy abruptly canceled Dr. Mile's talk in much the same fashion as Desmond Tutu's visit to St. Thomas University was canceled last fall. Miles was "Tutu'd" according to a newspaper columnist.

Leaving to the side the lobbying tactics of the "pro-life" group "Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life" in besmirching Dr. Miles to the Archdiocese that led to his being canceled (because they certainly have a right to their opinions), I think the Catholic Church as a whole (and many other churches) have just been way too silent about how wrong it is for our country to engage in torture and pre-emptive wars of aggression. For instance, a few weeks ago, when Pope Benedict XVI arrived in the United States against a macabre backdrop featuring reports of torture, execution and war, he simply chose not to notice.

The Catholic Church's overall silence about torture and the Iraq War becomes more glaringly obvious in light of its support of "good Catholics" like Robert Delahunty, David Addington and Antonin Scalia. Delahunty and Addington contributed to formulating what are euphemistically called "combined, harsh interrogation techniques upon our enemies." Up to organ failure. And Scalia has repeatedly applauded Jack Bauer tactics. Perhaps that is why polls reportedly show Catholics--more than the public at large, more than Protestants, and more than Evangelicals, support interrogational torture. (Secular Americans were most likely to reject interrogational torture.)

No wonder so many Catholics are confused. "Distinguished" Catholic lawyers tell them torture is okay and our country can disregard its own laws, as well as international law against it. The pope's visit came just after President George W. Bush publicly conceded that he knew about, and approved the dozens of meetings in 2002 and 2003 in the White House Situation Room, at which Vice President Dick Cheney and the most senior national security and legal advisers deliberated on and approved various sets of torture techniques to be applied to certain detainees. Setting this stage was, of course, the Feb. 7, 2002 Action Memorandum in which Bush formally authorized such illegal activity.

Hasn't torture always belonged in the same "intrinsically evil" moral category like rape, like slavery? If it's still in that category, the pope surely would have taken a stand on torture, right? Wrong. The pope was not noticing. So, confused Catholics ask, does that mean torture is okay? So long as no life is ended before birth, it seems pretty much anything is permitted. If Caesar says it's okay, well he knows best. The papacy has come a long way since the hallmarks of Christians was how they loved one another and how they struggled for Justice for all.

So all church-goers, (but especially those Catholics who pride themselves as "pro-life") would do well to listen to Dr. Miles talk. His presentation on torture has been shifted from St. Joan's to the Carondelet Center (next to the College of Saint Catherine at 1890 Randolph Ave.) in St. Paul, at 7 p.m. Tuesday.

 
 

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Real Catholics are not confused. We know what sin is when we see it. Torture is sin. Always was, always has been, even when practiced by our own Church. But please do not confuse real Catholics with the Church. They have never been the same and they hardly ever see eye-to-eye. If it had been any other way, Protestantism would not exist as we know it.

It is kind of strange that this ex-Catholic agnostic has to explain something this simple to a columnist who has chosen to write about the topic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:04 PM on 05/05/2008

I know many Lutherans who seem to comfortable with the idea of using torture but then we Lutherans used to be Catholics only a few centuries ago.
Didn't Catholics practice torture during the Spanish Inquisition where the hapless victim was deemed innocent of heresy if he or she survived the torture. Of course they usually confessed first and were then burned at the stake. This must be why the U.S. now only allows torture to a level just below that of organ failure. We could even see the rebirth of The Rack.

I think the vast majority of Catholics and Lutherans know torture of any kind is wrong but they are afraid to admit it in public. Are they afraid it might be used on them?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:43 PM on 05/05/2008

ALL Christian denominations in this country are warmongers.

Evangelikkkals especially.

Yeshua (that was his name, Jesus is a mistranslation) was a rebel middle-eastern Jew who preached peace, not a rich, white, Christian, republiCON, from a red state who preaches war, torture, class warfare, and hatred for all who aren't just like you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:14 PM on 05/05/2008

I can't speak for others, but I was born and raised a Catholic and "torture" in some form or another, is an integral part of Catholocism. We were taught that we were worthless scum, unworthy of being in the presence of God, unworthy of anything but eternal damnation for our sinful state. I well remember a sermon I heard one Sunday about 45 years ago that told how a saintly man, living a perfect life without a single sin besmirching his soul, but as he lay on his deathbed, wracked by pain from a terminal disease, he TOOK GOD'S NAME IN VAIN ONCE and was condemned to the fires of Hell. I remember as a child thinking to myself "What chance do I have, I take God's name in vain nearly every day!" Guilt and fear is a powerful weapon.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:56 PM on 05/05/2008

That's about the stupidest comment I've ever hear. Profanity is a venial, not a mortal sin. No priest, frankly, would ever say that. I don't think you were born and raised a Catholic at all: never once have I heard any prest say that man is irretrievably damned. I think you're just one of those sad little men who dislikes the Catholic Church.

You'll have to get over it. When you're dust, the Church will still be going strong.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:23 PM on 05/05/2008

Ex-Catholic here. What can you expect from an organization that refined torture to an art during the middle ages, appeased the Nazis, took 40 years to denounce the Holocaust, and covered up for and continues to protect pedophiles and child abusers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:10 PM on 05/05/2008

Also click here to read what our "Minnesota Monitor" had to say about the issue: http://minnesotamonitor.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3880

I just had a novel thought. My husband and I should ask to join the "Minnesota Concerned Citizens for Life" since we, among all Minnesotans were the only ones to file a complaint to the FCC about the KTLK radio talk show's recent comments here inciting violence. As far as I know, the FCC has taken no action on our complaint regarding (the guy who comes on before Rush Limbaugh) Chris Baker's incitement for a "good ole boy network to hand out ax handles" and "what we need are machine guns (to) mow 'em down baby." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/coleen-rowley/just-denounce-the-pacifis_b_95259.html

One would think if they were really concerned, the Minnesota citizens for life would have made similar complaints objecting to these expressions encouraging wanton violence, wouldn't ya?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:04 PM on 05/05/2008

"Hasn't torture always belonged in the same "intrinsically evil" moral category like rape, like slavery?"

It was mostly in that category until 1995, when Bill Clinton signed PDD 39 and opened the floodgates to extraordinary rendition and torture by proxy... but then it's okay if you have someone else conduct the torture for us while we turn a "blind eye".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:06 PM on 05/05/2008

bob jones from bob jones university calls catholism a gutter religion.. george bush visits and imbrasses jones.. george bush recd. the majority of the catholic vote both times he ran..if the catholic voters aren't the dumbest voters in america there pretty close.. to me catholics supporting bush is like jews supporting a nazi, doesn't make much sense.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:43 AM on 05/05/2008

you're just not as smart as Catholics. Catholics don't mind be insulted, depending on the payoff.

Five Catholic justices now sit on the supreme court. The insult paid at Bob Jones University is past and gone. Those Catholic justices will be shaping American law for a generation.

So just how dumb are Cathoics?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:26 PM on 05/05/2008


I'm not confused either, If its torture to nail a guy to a cross

it probably torture to hold them under water!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:11 AM on 05/05/2008

As a catholic-I'm not confused at all.
It's WRONG.

Do unto others....
Love your neighbor....
Remove the log from thine own eye first...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:58 AM on 05/05/2008

I'm a Catholic too and I'm not confused. Apparently our church is confused about what it's teaching role is about. Silencing people is un-American and there is too much of that going on by this church.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:42 PM on 05/05/2008
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