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04:59 AM on 05/10/2008
Senator Graham doesn't think Hillary has hubris. As far as I am concerned, she is the poster child for it.
04:01 AM on 05/10/2008
Every time they talk about her Iraq war vote, I feel like it's to keep us from thinking about that Kyl-Lieberman vote, which came way later, but not so much later that she didn't think she'd get away with it just like she got away with voting to authorize the Iraq war. Back then, she was still inevitable, awaiting coronation, and doing just as she pleased, the way Bushco does now. It's her backers' way of pretending that long-ago authorization vote was "Her One and Only Mistake, Ever," a mistake that (sigh) seems to have done 'her in.
01:15 AM on 05/10/2008
I feel compelled to write that I admire Sen. Graham so much. I get the same feeling about him as I do researching Barack Obama. There's some commonality there, not just in coincidentally opposing the Iraq war authorization, but, also in rooting it in pragmaticism. Perhaps Graham would be a good VP for Obama?
02:38 AM on 05/10/2008
I LIVE IN Broward County Florida, Yes, The Same County That Screw-Up The Election in 2000 and 2004!

AND OBAMA WILL "WIN" This State In The General Election!!

DONT BELIEVE THE Clinton or the Media Hype!!

A Lot Of People in this state is upset with Clinton unfair actions over the Fake, Bogust primary votes! Eveybody was told on local news here in Florida, that the election would NOT Count. The only reason people had to goto the polls was to vote on a PROPERTY TAX Ammendment 1. So people who live in RENTAL Property DID NOT SHOW UP! MOST PEOPLE INCLUDING MYSELF NEVER Hear about Obama!

THIS IS VERY UNFAIR TO OBAMA and Clintons and there supporters should quit misleading people in other states! FLORIDA PEOPLE KNOW THE UNFAIR BIAS THAT is going on!!
07:21 AM on 05/10/2008
Somebody please show this to the Obama campaign: ErikW65 has taken ideas out of my head. I have been trying for days to get word out there that there is a guy called Gov./ Senator Bob Graham who more that anyone else matches the job description for a running mate as potential VP for Obama. This man is stellar, imposing, skilled, powerful, honorable, handsome, popular, progressive, right age, awesome, White,Southern (pardon me on regionalism), herioc, incredibly articulate (see his debate skills from the 2000 election). An ex-Governor and Senator from the strategic swing state of Florida and passionate and strong (Republicans cannot "swiftboat "this dude. all said, obama only needs to see this guy's 2000 presidential debates to pick him. no one even comes close! This guy has all the heft and experience W's Dick Chenney and Obama can only salivate for! And he has military credentials too. i have never understood why he did not run again in 2004 or do better in 2000. If they run together, they win and he will go from VP to President for sure!
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VOTER
Freedom from fear - the philosophy of human rights
12:19 AM on 05/10/2008
Hillary's "YES" vote for Bush's War of Choice certainly has hurt her campaign but more

than that HILLARY, HERSELF became her biggest enemy.

The HIllary I expected to run for President, never showed up.

A NEW AND UGLY HILLARY HAS BEEN CAMPAIGNING FOR MONTHS AND NOW

SHE SIMPLY LOOKS FOOLISH OR BITTER BY HANGING ON.

I could never have dreamed of a Dem candidate repulsing so many life long Dem
voters. NEVER!

Hilliary has done so. She now threatens the entire Dem Party going down in November.
12:05 AM on 05/10/2008
For two years, my politically-minded friends and I have be saying that this election will be against George W. Bush, no matter who the Democrats put up or who the Republicans put up in the General Election race. Failed 2-term president, failed war, failed economic policies, failed legacy, failed neocon idealism -- obvious. The most astonishing thing has been to watch Hillary make Bush's biggest booboos and so link herself to Dubya in the minds of voters.

First was failing to acknowledge her war vote as a mistake. "Stay the course and all speed ahead!!!" while changing the rationale over why the "aye" vote was cast simply added dejavu to Bush's shifting rationale for having invaded Iraq.

Then there was the loyalty over competence thing, just like Bush and his croney appointees. Penn, of course, was the quintessential example, though not the only one by far. Here is a man so incompetent to advise a political campaign that he did not even know about proportional primary delegations.

Finally, there's been the mirror image of the GOP attack machine that we've all come to know and loathe in the past few election cycles that Hillary has employed with ruthless glee.

So the biggest mystery for me in dissecting Hillary's failed bid is if she is the "smartest person in the world" as claimed by Bill, how is it that she could have such a blind spot as to not see these obvious pitfalls?
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Aleka4
Searching for the purest blue...
12:14 AM on 05/10/2008
Yea this baffles me also.

I mean, I am not "the smartest person in the world" but even I could work out a few basic obvious truths on what she should or shouldn't do. What is scary to me is why she relied on advice, esp bad advice that clearly wasn't working. Did she not try to work it out for herself?

So - thank god, really. I am frightened by the idea of a president who can't work out easy stuff and who is so suceptible to bad advisors. I think had she been advised properly, she could certainly have won this. But i am glad she wasn't, because we've had a chance to see what shes' "really" like.
03:36 AM on 05/10/2008
You're correct that she lost due her vote on Bush's invasion. But she could have saved the day by simply regreting that vote because Bush retreated from his original justification for the invasion several times. She could have said she thought bush's orginal justification (for asking for permission to use force if Saddam failed to cooperate) was enough but all the subsequent lies weren't. All she could do was "support the troops".
11:59 PM on 05/09/2008
i'll always be grateful to statemen like bill graham and robert byrd for speaking out against this illegal war from the start. i agree, her candidacy was flawed in several important ways but the vote giving the bold and sassy but fatally dumb neocons free rein over their pet war project , and her subsequent rationalizations over said vote, most certainly weakened her candidacy. and by the way, the next time some know-nothings want to start a war, everyone voting for such should send their kids and grandkids first. these are our precious children being sent away and they go out there in good faith. it's horrible. god help me, but i will never forgive hrc her vote and peace of mind thereafter. i doubt most of these folks in dc have any idea of the depths of the anger and anguish out here.
11:01 PM on 05/09/2008
She used a playbook that a republican candidate would use in an election cycle unfavorable to republican candidates...
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11:34 PM on 05/09/2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9xMfBFZgdI

Maybe it is also how she wants to be so hawkish, and has so little consideration of others' point of view that she would be more worry about her cookies.
11:42 PM on 05/09/2008
To me, there is nothing more obnoxious than a politician pontificating about subjects he doesn't understand. Graham is pontificating about something he doesn't understand.
Hillary Clinton has been a horrible candidate. Sure, sure, she'd probably make a pretty good, and very competent POTUS, but this campaign has exposed her poor character like nothing else that's come before.
Pandering, whining, playing games with words and facts, appealing to be rescued by acting the victim, engaging in a kind of smarmy, empty one-upsmanship (i.e. "My opponent might have said "Yes" at 2:15pm, but I said "yes" at 2:00!!!!!"), Hillary's come across more like a student of Karl Rove than as the kind of progressive-thinking, positive agent of change so many of us want.
Graham doesn't get it because he's of the same "old school" as Hillary: say and do whatever it takes to get elected 'cos getting elected is what it's all about." BULL.
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12:07 PM on 05/10/2008
Okay, since you stated it baldfaced, I'm going to ask you:

HOW does this "horrible candidate," with "poor character," whose behavior includes "pandering, whining, playing games with words and facts, appealing to be rescued by acting the victim, engaging in a kind of smarmy, empty one-upmanship" so that she "come[s] across more like a student of Karl Rove than as the kind of progressive-thinking, positive agent of change so many of us want"--how does this person make "a pretty good, and very competent POTUS"???

People regularly note aspects of Hillary's unsavory and irrational behavior, and say in the same breath that she'd be a good president. The vicarious cognitive dissonance is killing me. What am I not seeing here? How do we trust someone who’s justifying racism among undereducated whites, who fabricates most of a story to make herself look heroic, and when caught, declares that she's "not dumb" and it "proves she's human"? Doesn’t the Bosnia sniper business indict her veracity, honor, and possibly her mental status? How is her considered and deliberate refusal to read the NIE before authorizing war evidence of "competence"? She works hard when pursuing something for her greater glory, but the low-PR-value, due diligence required of responsible public servants gets short shrift. She botched the most important decision of her lifetime, undermining the process and betraying the people, with tragic consequences. I can't get around this. How do you?
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10:15 PM on 05/09/2008
Bill and the DLC tied Hillary to the Bush War policy. Then after defeats in S.C. and Iowa she had to run as a Republican. Bill almost did it though, nearly winning a Democratic primary with a Goldwater platform.
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10:12 PM on 05/09/2008
Hillary Clinton calculates every decision she makes, never showing political courage. I think over 21 democrats did not support the war and at the time it was a very difficult decision to say 'no' after the 9/11 lunacy.
It is ironic that this decision was insurmountable to her as she would never admit to being wrong with that decision. It was the same with John Edwards. He too supported the Iraq war. We need a new kind of Leader; a world Leader, who is not afraid to make a decision even when most are against it [illegal immigration issue]. I don't agree with him on that immigration point but respect him enough to vote wholeheartedly for him.

Independents for Obama '08
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10:15 PM on 05/09/2008
sorry; in my last sentence I meant of course 'him' as Obama.
10:05 PM on 05/09/2008
I HAVE TO STRONGLY CAUTION ALL OBAMA SUPPORTERS WHOSE STATES HAVE NOT YET VOTED, PLEASE GET OUT AND VOTE WHEN YOUR VOTING DATE ARRIVES. THE RACE IS NOT OVER, SO DO NOT BUY INTO WHAT THE MEDIA IS SAYING. THEY ARE GIVING OFF A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY.

IF THE MEDIA ARE ABLE TO GET OBAMA'S VOTERS TO STAY AT HOME, WITH THE FALSE SENSE THAT OBAMA HAS ALREADY WON, HILLARY WILL WALK OFF WITH THE NOMINATION, BECAUSE YOU BETTER BELIEVE THAT HILLARY IS TELLING HER SUPPORTERS TO GO OUT AND VOTE.

OBAMA SUPPORTERS, THIS RACE IS NOT DONE UNTIL ALL THE VOTING IN EVERY STATE IS DONE.
SO OBAMA VOTERS GET OUT AND VOTE, NO MATTER WHAT THE MEDIA SAYS, OBAMA NEEDS ALL YOUR VOTES, THIS RACE IS NOT OVER UNTIL ALL THE STATES HAVE VOTED!!!
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10:13 PM on 05/09/2008
Thank you realtalk for a very important message!
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BlueAsh
11:01 PM on 05/09/2008
Good point!

Hillary is not quitting because she feels that she still has a chance. She may be out of touch, but she is not delusional -- she has enough smart people around her that they'd have eased her out of the current situation. But they are not and she has not slowed down--they are working on something. You'd better believe it.
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Msohio
09:42 PM on 05/09/2008
She pandered to the republicans.
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jeffp26
09:24 PM on 05/09/2008
I sincerely think Hillary's vote to support the war was made not from her conscience, but from her desire to be positioned "properly" politically. (I'm giving her credit for more humanity than she has shown recently.)

So how funny, and ironic, is it that it cost her the nomination. Then again, it is not funny that it cost many thousands of our kids, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's, their lives.

She should be grateful she's alive.
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gtt
This is not your father's republican party.
06:54 AM on 05/10/2008
What a horrible mistake to empower the noecons and allow them to attack Iraq and kill so many civilians. How awful to send our young men and women to die for political expediancy. It is only right that this unholy act of violence should cost Senator Clinton her long sought after prize (and Bush his legacy). Again, we all should be, and are, responsible for our actions. Karma is a powerful metaphysical power.
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jeffp26
10:34 AM on 05/10/2008
GTT, I agree with everything you said. And I'll take it a step further: when people like Bush, Cheney, McCain, Hillary die, whether they like it or not, they go to the same place in hell where Saddam Hussein, Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin, etc. etc. etc. are now enjoying the heat.

You cannot aid in the killing of your fellow human beings without consequence. Even jesus can't help.
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DRaymond
Network administrator, voiceovers
09:16 PM on 05/09/2008
Yes, if Clinton could have brought herself to admit that the war vote was a mistake then it would have helped her. But even moreso anytime the current resident of the White House has such low approval numbers, plus low approval numbers for congress, you have an electorate looking to change things, and having the names in the history books read Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton, did not feel like change.
09:07 PM on 05/09/2008
I posted this exact comment yesterday. HRC's War Vote and the fact that she would not admit it was a mistake really doomed her. However her lack of organization, Mark Penn's so called lack of knowing the delegate allocation process in California (which I can not bring myself to believe), and her overall arrogance also contributed mightly.
09:05 PM on 05/09/2008
If we vote against all incumbent Democratic senators up for re-election who voted for the war that is 7 seats in the Senate we will lose. That doesn't seem like such a good plan to me but it is certainly your right. We'll see how effective Obama is with a Republican Congress.
09:54 PM on 05/09/2008
hmm how obtuse of you . Most of the dems that voted for the war have one major difference with Shrillary , THEY ADMITTED THAT IT WAS A MISTAKE . Like Bush it seems she can never admit that she has made a mistake, she mispeaks, she misremembers, but never a mistake . After 7 years of "no mistakes" made in the white house i dont know if this country can survive another 8 years of no mistakes . I also think that how she plans for the future and handles money in her campaign speaks volumes as to her experience compared to Obama. Time to enjoy her last years in the senate and get ready to retire cause she burned her bridges in NY with the AA population.
12:37 AM on 05/10/2008
I guess I am obtuse. I can only find that Joe Biden and Jay Rockefeller ever said their votes for the war were mistakes. That leaves 5 you don't want us to vote for...still pretty many as close as the Senate is. If you have proof those 5 ever admitted it was a mistake, please give the links.