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06:02 PM on 11/29/2011
Good article. As a liberal who supports Israel, it is rather disconcerting to see the level of vitriol directed at Israel from some on the left. Over and over, we hear Israel attacked for simply defending its citizens from terrorists, while Arab dictatorships get a free pass when they stone women and kill gays.
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Greg Mirsky
Riga dimd, Riga dimd, Kas to Rigu dimdinaj?
07:31 PM on 11/29/2011
Might be it is time to realize that the Left in its current from is sick, is infected with Judephobia?
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Nwo2012
Sue me, I boycott products from the settlements
07:32 PM on 11/29/2011
Many people are critical of israel because of its relentless crusade to steal Palestinine land, its theft of Palestinian resources and it obstruction of peace settlement.
08:52 PM on 11/29/2011
Interesting. What resources have the Israelis taken? Which Palestinians have been clamoring to come to talk peace with Israel?
Rosin the Bow
Palestine doesn't want peace. Meshaal said so
08:54 AM on 11/30/2011
No such thing as Palestinian land and resources.
03:57 PM on 11/29/2011
It's true, liberals being against Israel is the oddest phenomenon. Israel is such a pure representation of every liberal value, yet somehow even that fact elicits nothing but venom from the left wingers.

http://gardenstateisrael.blogspot.com/
03:33 PM on 11/29/2011
To say that Israel's occupation is 'reluctant' is as nonsensical as saying that Hamas fires rockets into Israel reluctantly. I find it funny that Israel must be compared to Yemen and Saudi Arabia to tout it's liberal bonafides. The fact is that Israel is becoming far more like the countries that surround it than her admirers are willing to admit. This will continue as well since they constantly tout Israel as being incredibly liberal even though it has moved far away from the left in the last few years.
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07:30 PM on 11/29/2011
Overwhelmingly, the israeli public supports the two state solution, with a palestinian state on the vast majority of the west bank and all of gaza.

So why is the occupation ongoing? Because when israel ended their occupation of gaza and south lebanon, it led to more war, not peace. Add to that the small minority that is the settler movement (and controls less of the israeli knesset than the arab parties) which have used arab intransigence to their advantage. By any definition of the word, the israeli occupation is reluctant, if you know the first thing about israel.
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Jonathan Miller
TheRecoveringPolitican.com
03:41 PM on 11/30/2011
Important points -- thanks for clarifying my use of the word "reluctant"!
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Bill Sampson
Truth is the most valuable thing we have!
03:32 PM on 11/29/2011
Throughout its history, Israel has willfully and repeatedly committed crimes of war and against humanity, always with impunity. Yet under customary legal standards and norms (including Geneva, Hague, the UN Charter, S.C. and G.A. resolution­­s), it's lawless, a serial abuser, a threat to the region and humanity, mostly as an oppressive occupier. Attacking Gaza is the latest episode in its six-decade reign of terror satisfying the definition of genocide against defenseless Palestinia­­n civilians.

This article covers more evidence from some disturbing but unsurprisi­­ng newly published informatio­­n.

http://sjl­­endman.bl­o­gspot.co­m/­2009/03­/in­crimin­atin­g-evi­dence­-of-­israel­i-w­ar.html
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cosmiczulu
the truth shall set you free
05:53 PM on 11/29/2011
a nice example of how the far left uses propaganda to misrepresent, it's so obvious it's comical.
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Anybodyseenthepopos
אני כלום בלעדיהם
10:17 AM on 11/30/2011
Yes, attacking Gaza after 10,000 rockets and mortars were shot at Israeli civilians. Why don't we do it your way and make it equal? Lets give the settlers rockets and every time Hamas or any other of a dozen groups tries to kill Israeli civilians; the settlers should just send the same number of rockets back into the Gaza civilian population.

Your double standard of behavior is ridiculous.
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Bill Sampson
Truth is the most valuable thing we have!
11:03 AM on 11/30/2011
What is ridiculous really is your inability to see the real issues. Give them their land and their rights and stop the unfathomable suffering you have instilled on them for 63 years. If they still complain, give us a buzz!

Ridiculous indeed!

PS. These rockets are more like fire crackers and do not contain WP! and your settlers conduct daily massacres that go unreported! Just an FYI!
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Naor
12:50 PM on 11/29/2011
Very nice piece. I'd also like to point out that Israel has achieved this level of liberalism in a region which has not only long rejected it, but for generations have actively worked against it. Israel has become an oasis of tolerance even among years of conflict. Many here in Israel have for generations rejected the notion of hate and intolerance, even in the face of attempted and promised genocides at the hands of the Arabs. Even though almost every Israeli knows someone who lost their life due to the Arab's intolerance, we have not given into it. We have not "stooped to their level" so to speak. And I'm sorry, but that is something NO other nation can claim. No other nation in history has been so progressive amidst generations of conflict.
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Jonathan Miller
TheRecoveringPolitican.com
03:42 PM on 11/30/2011
Thanks, and I appreciate your insight from Israel.
12:41 PM on 11/29/2011
"[My conservative readers: Please close your eyes for the next sentence.] The State of Israel was established in 1948 as a socialist nation, built on the wealth-sharing principles of its treasured agrarian collectives, known commonly as kibbutzim. More recently, Israel has vaulted into capitalism; and through its extraordinary entrepreneurial culture, the small nation has emerged as a global leader in technology development and clean energy innovation."

I'm not a conservative but why should they close their eyes?? You just admitted (correctly) that Israel's economy exploded when then- Finance Minister Netanyahu shook off the quasi-socialist shackles and adopted market-oriented capitalism.

It's your leftist readers you should have told to close their eyes.
12:52 PM on 11/29/2011
Great, then maybe they can quit asking us for more money, or even pay us back the billions we have put in.
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Nwo2012
Sue me, I boycott products from the settlements
03:14 PM on 11/29/2011
Lets not get carried away. Somebody needs to fund the occupation. Those Palestinian houses don't demolish themselves, you know
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cosmiczulu
the truth shall set you free
05:55 PM on 11/29/2011
are you still selling that old line about money, your kind never speaks to the fact that Israel get monetary credits to buy US goods, it's Arab neighbors get Aid. If only you were interested in peace rather than hate.
11:54 PM on 11/29/2011
Israel has mandatory universal health insurance.

In Israel, the government owns or controls almost all the land and has draconian restrictions on who can build what, where.

Israel leverages its defense budget to spur private sector high technology firms.

Israel's regulation of its banks is positively draconian compared to the US or UK.

Israeli citizens pay some of the highest taxes in the world.

I could go on and on, but Netanyahu's economic policies are far to the Left of those of the Obama administration.
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Jonathan Miller
TheRecoveringPolitican.com
03:43 PM on 11/30/2011
Good points, all!
10:23 AM on 11/29/2011
Thanks for the article, Jonathan. I appreciate your attachment to Israel and know that it is a lot closer to your heart than mine. But to me it only represents conflict, death, more U.S. tax dollars, more attention from our political leaders where there are so many more important areas of the world doing great things. But more to your case - if Israel has such manganimouis leadership then why has it not resolved its conflict after nearly 80 years of fighting?

I disagree with your premise and specifically I really take issue with the statement "Israel is our strongest ally" or sometimes noted our "best friend." This I can only assume, since it is so often repeated, comes right out of AIPAC's playbook. Of course if it is repeated enough then people will start to believe it is true. Sort of like "Winston tastes good like a cigarette should." Of course there are a lot of similarities to being Israel's "best friend" and sucking smoke into your lungs.

Poor Obama says he has to deal with Netanyahu everyday, and clearly does not like it. AIPAC transports 81 congressmen to Israel so they can be most up to date on Israel's latest whining. This is an unbelievable distortion of our international focus. Let's find better "best friends" then Israel.

I say it is time to cut off funds to this welfare state we seem so focused on. It returns nothing except death and taxes.
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Bill Sampson
Truth is the most valuable thing we have!
11:59 AM on 11/29/2011
Nicely said! Proud to be your first fan! F&F
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Naor
12:42 PM on 11/29/2011
Israel provides America with many benefits, of which are easily identifiable via the internet if you keep an open mind. However, believing Israel-America relationship is one thing. This is an opinion and you are entitled to it. Another thing is how so many people hate Israel for being "intolerant and oppressive" and champion the cause of the Arabs who are much more guilty of that charge.
08:47 AM on 11/29/2011
I'm a liberal and I support Israel.
JacksonJones
Absit iniuria verbis!
04:01 PM on 11/29/2011
Me too.
12:20 AM on 11/29/2011
simple fact....the far left has never supported israel

thank god that the far left never has had and never will have power

go back to your absurd occupy protests that accomplish nothing
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Nwo2012
Sue me, I boycott products from the settlements
02:03 AM on 11/29/2011
Everyone is far left when you compare it to the israeli government.
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Gui Montag
Former Palestinian Supporter
08:55 AM on 11/29/2011
And everyone is far right compared to you.
10:19 AM on 11/29/2011
Your comment is absurd. For example, Israel has a first rate, socialized, affordable single-payer healthcare system that makes Obamacare look Dickensian.

So, "everyone" is far left left compared to the Israeli government. Ha-ha-ha.
Does everyone include the fascist/feudal dicatorships of Syria, Gaza, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Somalia, Sudan, Egypt, etc, etc? Oh yeh, they are SO left-wing!
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Gui Montag
Former Palestinian Supporter
08:55 AM on 11/29/2011
That's not entirely true, the far left supported Israel when it looked like the Arabs were going to wipe them out. The far left is what we call "fair weather friends."
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gibranII
seeking peace through equality
10:38 AM on 11/29/2011
No the left beleives in a vibrant Israel.. and one that practicesit's core values... its people like you that dont understand that you can be critical of Israel and still support it,,,
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Bill Sampson
Truth is the most valuable thing we have!
06:11 PM on 11/28/2011
What case can be made for an illegal entity built on the corpses of the indigenous inhabitants? An entity created on baseless lies, manipulation and unparalleled propaganda! A brutal occupying force that has the longest and most brutal occupation in history? An unity that is responsible for the largest concentration camp in the world and is in defiance of the most number of UN violations!

I submit that there is no case can be made for this entity but many can be made against it!
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HistoryBuffBU
06:44 PM on 11/28/2011
Tell me, where would the 55% of Israel's Population that had their property confiscated by Arab Countries Go. The Jews of Iraq were basically kicked out, and they were their for many years before the arabs came
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Nwo2012
Sue me, I boycott products from the settlements
06:55 PM on 11/28/2011
It is not the responsibility of Palestinians to underwrite and insure against losses israeli refugees may or may nt have received in other countries outside Palestine. Nor is it the responsibility of Palestinians to provide them with free land and housing.

Hope this helps.
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gibranII
seeking peace through equality
10:40 AM on 11/29/2011
The Jews in the middle-east has had it bad since 1948.. some were kicked out and that shoul dbe recognized ..so were tricked out by the underground (in Iraq--particularly)... many Jews were protected from Christians too... the history is tangled.. so does that justify oppression of the Palestinians who lived with them for centuries?
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HistoryBuffBU
06:46 PM on 11/28/2011
Tell me, where do Jews around the world pray towards!!!!! Jerusalem!!! Jews were in the area for over 3,500 years!!
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Nwo2012
Sue me, I boycott products from the settlements
08:21 PM on 11/28/2011
Jews have lived in every country of the world. That doesn't infer any rights to the state of israel to invade and steal land and eject the population
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Bill Sampson
Truth is the most valuable thing we have!
03:26 AM on 11/29/2011
where were they? Why would they immigrate to Palestine if they where already there? Think lad! People from Kazaria have no connection to Palestine. It is too far old chap!
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NTT
Fighting rants with facts
04:58 PM on 11/28/2011
VERY good article, Mr. Miller. Unfortunately, for many hear it will fall on deaf ears. The Israel-hating mob which frequents this website is NOT interested in liberal, progressive or humanistic values. In fact, the opposite is true: you will "hear" them quite often mounting a fanatical defense of the most obscurantist, regressive regimes, such as Iran's mullahs' regime. Sure, some of them will posture as "progressives", but only insofar as this allows them to attack Israel. Beyond that, they'll defend the "right" of medieval regimes to lynch gays, stone adulterers, hang young girls for having sex and decree that women should leave homes only "dressed" in black walking coffins...

Some "progressives"!!
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Cynthia Rays
peace in the valley seeker
05:16 PM on 11/28/2011
There are human rights abuses in many countries. The "medieval regimes" and horrendous acts you describe are not Palestine. You obviously are against Islam. What is your excuse for keeping Palestinian Christians oppressed?
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HistoryBuffBU
06:56 PM on 11/28/2011
“I expect our Christian neighbors to understand the new Hamas rule means real changes. They must be ready for Islamic rule if they want to live in peace in Gaza.” Sheik Abu Saqer
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Gui Montag
Former Palestinian Supporter
08:10 PM on 11/28/2011
What is *your* excuse for keeping Palestinia­n Christians oppressed?
Michael II
Neither the one, nor the only
05:26 PM on 11/28/2011
I don't know if it was covered here, but I applauded the Israeli women that posed (almost) nude in support of the female Egyptian blogger recently. Apart from it being a headline type of thing to do, it was a brilliant gesture from one set of women to another, and from Israeli to Egyptian at a time when we expect it least.
01:22 PM on 11/29/2011
would love to see that. israeli girls are gorgeous
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NTT
Fighting rants with facts
05:07 PM on 11/29/2011
No, it wasn't covered, of course -- but I agree it's a wonderful gesture. So when can we expect to see Egyptian women demonstrating in support of Israeli women??
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Bar Kokhba
Fortitudo et Virtus
04:05 PM on 11/28/2011
The discussion gets ever more tedious as there is absolutely no intention on the part of the "Palestinians" to EVER live in harmony with the Jews. In Egypt on Friday the Muslim Brotherhood staged a rally shouting "Death to the Jews" and other such quaint colloquialisms. Tunis is proposing a new constitution calling, as a matter of "law", for the destruction of Israel. Every Hamas and Fatah leader has publicly proclaimed their unyielding position of rendering Israel Judenrein. What part of the "Palestine, from the river to the sea" rally cry do people not understand? Perhaps more to the point is that is exactly what many of you would like to see...
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MarcEdward
likes all cats more than most people
04:27 PM on 11/28/2011
Got any (non ynet) links for all those accusations or are you just making stuff up?
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Gui Montag
Former Palestinian Supporter
04:43 PM on 11/28/2011
It's called Google.
05:34 PM on 11/28/2011
In a September 2011 interview with the liberal New York Times, ABBAS stated:
“We are going to complain that as Palestinians we have been under occupation for 63 years.” 63 years back from 2011 was 1948, not 1967.
So, according to Abbas, even the original, tiny Israel, including Tel Aviv, is occupied Palestinian land, and always has been.

Hamas have enshrined their goal of killing of all the Jews in their charter, and repeat that ambition frequently. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i08L09V0_sg
Watch it all, or start at 1:15 to hear them ranting about killing all the Jews.

In Egypt last Friday, there WAS a rally where the crowd repeatedly chanted that one day they "will kill all the Jews".
See http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/egypt-muslim-brotherhood-holds-anti-semetic-rally-draws-thousands-cairo-top-mosque-vowing-day-kill-jews-article-1.982830

Quote: "A Muslim revival at Cairo’s most prominent mosque Friday that drew 5,000 worshippers reportedly turned into a hate-fueled rally, complete with repeated vows to “one day kill all the Jews.”
Michael II
Neither the one, nor the only
05:28 PM on 11/28/2011
The programme of the 13th government defines Palestine as the West Bank + East Jerusalem +Gaza.
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04:02 PM on 11/28/2011
Interestingly enough, there seems to be a very close connection between many neo-conservative and ultra-conservative American politicians and the same element in Israel. Eric Cantor is a good example. Also, the American Christianist (i.e. using religion as a political tool) is in total support of all Israeli policies. Where is the liberal connection there?
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Jonathan Miller
TheRecoveringPolitican.com
11:25 PM on 11/28/2011
Over the past decade, Israel has had solid support from American conservatives, typified by the strong statements recently by Rick Perry and Michelle Bachman. But this does not mean that liberals shoudl react by opposing Israel. This is an opportunity for real bipartisanship.
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02:28 AM on 11/29/2011
Regrettably, there is to be no bipartisanship between myself and Rick Perry or Michelle Bachman. I'm sorry, but Israel doesn't need solid support, having the dominant hand in the current impasse. Also, it's important not to fall into the somewhat fake distinction between "conservative" and "liberal", the best example I can think of as illustration of apples vs. oranges. I see no opportunity until Israel makes real concessions as to aggressive expansionism and the status of Jerusalem.
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gibranII
seeking peace through equality
10:51 AM on 11/29/2011
Liberals do not oppose Israel (that is a generalization)..what most Humanists= oppose it many of it's current practices. Your article is very onesided.. You are leaving out that conflcit do not happen in a vacuum. The power structure is clearly favoring the continued demonizing of Palestinians and painting Israel as a vibrant democracy... If that was the case why are there so many organizations in Israel that have devoted themselves to justice for the Palestinians.. (of course some will willsay fringe or self hating movements)... The real opportunity is to have this power structure revamped and see each stakeholder as people who has suffered .. suffered because of blind support for one side or another.
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Bar Kokhba
Fortitudo et Virtus
03:57 PM on 11/28/2011
A refreshing piece illuminating Israel as it really is, void of inverse narratives and outright lies. It is remarkable that LGBT actually have organizations whose sole mission is to condemn Israel whereas they would be put to death in ANY Arab country, Persia or severely punished in Turkey. The sheer volume of lies that permeates these and other forums is unlike anything seen in the last 50 years and goes not to advocating for the "oppressed" but rather a direct assault against Jews, recycling age old blood libels and canards of mythical proportion. The extraordinary energy expended by these "troofers" in justifying their hateful stance as it relates to Israel is further proof as to their profound antisemitism; believing that if they couch their admonitions as "colonialism", "occupation", "deniers of human rights" "baby killers", "land thieves," etc., etc., somehow this inoculates and excuses them from charges of antisemitism and fortifies their public assertion that they are "anti-Zionist but they have no beef with the Jews". Israel is the National Homeland for Jews, created in part due to the 2000 years of persecution. The same rhetoric used then which resulted in crimes against humanity never before seen, is once again being spewed, albeit more pervasive due to the internet. Learn the facts, the real facts and than should you feel compelled, criticize Israel. Problem is, without the perversions and twisted "truth" as promoted by the left, it leaves you with little ammunition.