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burned out attorney, flaming liberal
11:31 AM on 07/10/2008
Sure is a lot of uproar on Huffington Post about this issue. Our article did a poor job of telling us what the act does. The NY Times did a little better this morning.

I have decided to get over it. If we get Obama into the White House and solid Democratic majorities in Congress, we will be in a position to do so much.

I dug up my post from last night which asked how we could condemn immunity for past acts which would be legal under the new law. No one responded.
Been there, done that, lived to tell
01:13 PM on 07/10/2008
I'm not sure I understand your question, MsLiz. Clearly, the new FISA law grants civil immunity to telecoms if they can provide "formal requests or directives from the administration to take part in the program" (which, to my lay mind, is the same as saying "when the president does it that means that it is not illegal"). The fact that our rights to proceed civilly have been abrogated should not annul our right to criticize the law. "It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error." Robert H. Jackson, American Communications Association v. Douds,339 U.S. 382,442. (Wasn't Jackson one of the Nuremberg judges?)

I'm a little punch-happy over the whole FISA debate. I know where I stand (I think). Perhaps I misunderstood your question. I am not content to say simply that Obama must be elected because then we will be "in a position to do so much". I am willing, however, to urge everyone to support Obama for the sake of the Supreme Court which, I feel, will be the final arbiter concerning this law.
11:27 AM on 07/10/2008
What's good for G.M. is good for America, this is just a modern version of that old propaganda line.
11:05 AM on 07/10/2008
I foolishly believed there would be a last minute filibuster, or some kind of Ah- ha, Hail Mary run around that would banish this bill forever.

What a bunch of Pu&&ies.

Get Nancy Pelosi and the rest who voted for this bill out of there and put in some Democrats who still believe in the constitution.
01:31 PM on 07/10/2008
You know that one of those Democrats was Obama, right?

But yes, I agree with you. I was hopeful -- and fearful -- right up until the last moment.
11:05 AM on 07/10/2008
Lets place the Blame where it is really deserved on the Democratic Leadership who allowed this bill to come to the floor for a vote. Nancy Pelosi, Stenny Hoyer, and Harry Reid should lose their jobs and their seats. Senator Obama might want to get part time job to make up for the money I wont be sending him.
Any Republicans out there hoping to get a vote from this, I wont be voting for one member of the Republican party local, state, or federal. Unless you are up against Nancy Pelosi, Stenny Hoyer, or Harry Reid.
I also suggest that anyone disturbed with this Immunity might want to see what services you do not need from the Telecoms. Personally I no longer need Verizon to supply me with a home phone and when my cell phones are due for a new contract ATT will be hearing from me.
And thank God for the Democrats that voted against this Bill, I will be supporting you.
12:17 PM on 07/10/2008
Try Consumer Cellular .com forget the rest.
12:40 PM on 07/10/2008
Consumer Cellular is an NSA front.
12:36 PM on 07/10/2008
Forget about AT&T. They were one of the most willing communication companies to comply with Bush and his thugs . Just wish we had an alternative to AT&T for our landline but they have a monopoly in this area since they bought out BellSouth.
01:24 PM on 07/10/2008
Try Working Assets.

Or do what I did...move to South, we only pay for the cell phone calls we make, not for the ones we receive...
10:58 AM on 07/10/2008
It's official. Obama flopped, big time on this one. Is that what you call LEADERSHIP? His first real opportunity to show some of it, and we get? NOTHING!
burned out attorney, flaming liberal
11:05 AM on 07/10/2008
Yes, it is. The opposite of Followship.
11:10 AM on 07/10/2008
Agreed. But it's more than a lack of leadership. He has shown how easily he can be rolled. So what's left to trust? Once a lie is told, how can we ever know that he's telling the truth?
11:22 AM on 07/10/2008
If his lips are moving, he is lying.
10:55 AM on 07/10/2008
Watch this PBS documentary:

They have been archiving all your phone calls and internet activity for years. It's all stored away, ready to be data mined if they decide they want to get you.
11:01 AM on 07/10/2008
But remember, if you're not a criminal or traitor you have nothing to fear.
11:08 AM on 07/10/2008
Thats eerily reminiscent of what the Nzis told the Good Germans.
11:02 AM on 07/10/2008
It is what they do with the data that is concerning. There is NO way to stop people or the government from collecting data. If you think only the government is doing this ....

And the government may one day side with others who collect data. Thanks Obama, thanks.
10:53 AM on 07/10/2008
For years now, every word spoken over a telephone, every keystroke you type while on the internet, is backed up and archived and can be data mined in the future.

PBS did a special on it. I found the tape at my library. I'll try to find out the name and post it here.

The legislation and the reality have little to do with one another. They've been doing whatever they want for years, illegally.
11:08 AM on 07/10/2008
"Spying on the Home Front"

You can find it online.
10:50 AM on 07/10/2008
I guess this is no longer headline news here. Had to use search feature to find this article.
12:41 PM on 07/10/2008
Don't worry, it will become headline news again when the Obama camp wonders publicly why they just can't seem to raise as much money or get as many people active anymore.

The amusing thing is, I'm sure they won't get the connection between their betrayal and our lack of enthusiasm, if the "get over it" responses of so many HuffPo posters is any gauge.
10:45 AM on 07/10/2008
Perhaps the last nearly 8 years of horrific administrative
civil thefts and constitutional outrages have left me untrusting.
I've heard no clear explanation as to why this bill, as written,
was passed. The protections needed against terrorist access
did not require this extensive of a measure nor the complete
cave in by Dems so, "Why?"
How does this bill, giving unlimited, silent, secret
access to your average Andy's phone and emails,
benefit our country?
Perhaps the Dems want the same facilitation to illegal, personal,
unnecessary information that the Republicans enjoyed over
the country during their reign. It smacks of fear and political cronyism.
It smacks of money.
Not passing a bad bill is far easier than trying to rectify it once
it's been enacted.
Why did the Senate not protect our 4th amendment rights?
Who benefits? Not this country.
But then, given the economy, there may be no shortage
of folks applying to "listen in" for a paycheck.
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To Love One Is To Love All
10:39 AM on 07/10/2008
A long line of abuses I am so tired of my rights being abused .no knock warrants
suspected activity ( I can suspect too you know ) free speech zones ,torture
sexual abuse by our own armed forces I saw the pictures from the prison disgusting and very un American .rendition billions missing and no body knows where the money went .calling our own people refugees in there own country , outing a C.I.A. undercover agent ,Calling our constitution a god da== piece of paper (that right there is grounds for impeachment ) is it not ? refusing to give aid to Katrina victims . NO water for five days that is abuse my fellow Americans and considered to be torture
in my book to many abuses to list my heart breaks when I think about our forced slavery

10:53 AM on 07/10/2008
Wow! All that happened to you?
01:26 PM on 07/10/2008
Easier to imagine now than it was yesterday.
10:38 AM on 07/10/2008
Does anyone know about the legislation that will give the Bush administration retroactive immunity from facing war crimes for torture? If so, do you think that there is a good chance it will be passed by the Congress?
10:56 AM on 07/10/2008
No legislation will be necessary.
Been there, done that, lived to tell
11:15 AM on 07/10/2008
Sad but true.
There's Something In the Air
11:08 AM on 07/10/2008
There is no such legislation.
There never will be.
11:17 AM on 07/10/2008
Well Thunderclap, you agree with me.
12:45 PM on 07/10/2008
I believe that that would be an ex post facto law, and I believe that that would be clearly unconstitutional.

Of course, H.R. 6304 was unconstitutional too, as we'll soon find out...
10:30 AM on 07/10/2008
I thought all you "progressives" identified GW Bush as a moron.......why is Pelosi and Reid follwing in his footsteps? I can only conclude that they are morons as well.

Wait? Barry Obama, the messiah, was in favor of the bill? We can conclude he is a moron to> ?? According to that "progressive" logic? Barry hasn't got a clue what he got into.
10:40 AM on 07/10/2008
There are plenty of Rons, we don;t need more Rons.
There's Something In the Air
10:52 AM on 07/10/2008
Yes, we already have you.
10:41 AM on 07/10/2008
Are "progressives" starting to think they've been suckered? Not quite yet, but soon.
Hello, I must be going.
10:27 AM on 07/10/2008
They started spying on Foreign Communications before they had the law on their side. Now they have that, what makes you think they have not started spying on everything now? Every communication device that we have will now be monitored especially domestic communications.

If BO is actually thinking of making any changes to our government, and I now have some doubts he will never see office. This helps explain how the Repugs can let McSame be the presumptive candidate. He is either a puppet or there will be no new president ever again.

The fix is in because Domestic Spying equals blackmail. Perhaps that is how they got this travesty passed? How many Senators DON’T cheat on their wives or their taxes or DON'T have some other skeletons in their closets? I would have to say about 28 out of 100.

Dark times are coming. You can almost hear the Blackwater tanks in the streets.
10:43 AM on 07/10/2008
here here..i keep saying the same thin but huffo keeps blocking it...
10:44 AM on 07/10/2008
see they just did it
10:25 AM on 07/10/2008
There is a March on Washington Happening this coming Saturday by people that want liberty and freedom.
There's Something In the Air
10:29 AM on 07/10/2008
Everyone will feel so self-righteous and smug---and it won't change a thing.
10:34 AM on 07/10/2008
So it's better to lie down and take it rather than do something that "may" inspire some action?
No wonder things are going down hill when people have that attitute.
10:43 AM on 07/10/2008
Why are you so against people taking action on this issue. Serious crimes are being covered up by this legislation. Our government is doing nothing short of selling us all out to fascists and the telecoms and all you can do is ridicule people for try to do something about it. You are the one being self-righteos and smug.
11:09 AM on 07/10/2008
This is a really compelling video presentation. I hope everyone will watch it and pass it on.
Its about a lot more than a weekend march.
10:14 AM on 07/10/2008
Instead of us leaving this country lets pack up all of Washington and put them on slow boats to China. They could be greeted as liberators there.
10:28 AM on 07/10/2008
Please don't do that. They would just send them over to Japan, because you have
bases here and we don't want them, we have enough people here. We can't feed
them an 18 course lunch and dinner every night. Sorry.