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COMMUNITY PUNDITS
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Tulka2 06:51 PM on 02/08/2012
My opinion is that homosapiens are not the only "persons", but you couldn't convince most people of that just as you could not convince most Americans 200 years ago that Africans were more than partially human. 

So that's not the argument to use. 

When i was a child, the Five and Dime Store sold live baby chicks dyed in pastel colors.  My mother did not approve, but some  Read More...
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wolflover3825
Hungry Like the Wolf.
04:02 PM on 02/07/2012
It really amazes me sometimes. This story is one of those times. Not only is this PETA lawsuit a waste of time, energy, and money, it sets a new high for LOW on the part of PETA. In addition to wasting the coutrs time, the reporter wasted time on writing this article, and I wasted my time reading it. All around PETA wasted everyones time.

I have to give the judge some credit for not laughing out loud in court when the lawsuit was read. He showed more self restraint than I would have.
11:32 AM on 02/08/2012
And you wasted MORE time by writing your comment, only for everyone else to waste THEIR time by reading it. If you are so worried about wasting time, why read the article and comment anyway?
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wolflover3825
Hungry Like the Wolf.
02:06 PM on 02/08/2012
Just like you wasting time to read my post and even more time wasted by replying with waste.
03:58 PM on 02/07/2012
If the US Supreme Court can consider emotionless, conscience-less, alive in some geriatric bizzaro imagination only, corporations as persons with rights under the US Constitution, surely it follows the old farts can see sentient beings like orcas that have clearly demonstrated emotion, caring and inate intelligence also have rights under the Constitution. Oh yeah, didn't that venerable US Constitution once have some kind of 3/5s rule or something apply to some human beings? Maybe the Supreme Court didn't mean corporations. It simply meant money has the rights. The more you have the more rights you get. One day there will be no jails, no zoos and no Courts.
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04:27 PM on 02/07/2012
Or maybe it is the fact that corporations are run by people and used by people to facilitate some aspects of business. While Orcas are not people.
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Gina Parziale
03:51 PM on 02/07/2012
"We the people..."

This should include all human beings regardless of race, creed, religion, sexual orientation, disability or anything else. If you are a human-you are included.

Whales are not people. They are not human.

I am not saying this because they are a different race of human. They are not human.

I am not saying this becauase of any other reason that could ever be used to compare this situation to human slavery, womens rights or any other situation involving humans. They are, in fact, not human. No one can dispute this.

I do believe that they need to be treated better-but out of respect for the people who were and are sadly still slaves in this world-whales performing at Sea World is not the same thing as human slavery-and it is disrespectful to suggest such things.
07:52 PM on 02/07/2012
Ok well then how do you feel about corporations as people? Because you should be much more concerned with that than about whales being exploited. Corporations as people causes much more harm than the disrespect fighting for animal rights may or may not bring to the table.
03:50 PM on 02/07/2012
It seems ironic that PETA is not advocating for a halt to fossil fuel use and other sources of greenhouse gases, land use and farming that result in habitat loss, and universal access to birth control, to reduce the number of humans living on this planet. Since we are responsible for the unethical behavior that results in harm and loss that happens to other animals, simply passing laws to prevent animal incarceration does not have more than a slight impact on the fate of the other organisms that share this planet. Much more important is education and exposure to the bounty of life (e.g. zoos and aquaria) to sensitize us humans to our impact on the rest of our fragile ecosystems, and the other living things that inhabit them.
BBlaw16
It just. Doesn't. Matter.
12:51 PM on 02/08/2012
Dinosaurs are people too! Stop burning them.
03:44 PM on 02/07/2012
By this logic all cats and dogs are also slaves. Hey PETA dopes! Give up your cats and dogs!
03:44 PM on 02/07/2012
"Stupid is as stupid does".... these are the same people that protest against the decision that corporations are people & now anmials are slaves! What is it that the protesters posters say about corporations? "Show me the birth certificates!" I ask the same from PETA .. show me the SSN of Willy or maybe child labor laws can apply as we must take care of them like kids. It just doesn't hold water and things are becoming asinine.
12:45 AM on 02/09/2012
Hi David. I am not a protester just an informed reader. Unfortunately, your assertion that corporations are people is not true nor is it in the same realm of discussion as PETAs issue in this article. You may be referring to the definition of person where it is secondarily defined as an artificial person for purposes of equal protection of laws and due process. In reality Corporations cannot and will not ever be people. It defies the known laws of physics. People are living sentient beings whereas corporations are mere fictions of law. Inanimate objects made of ink and paper. Corporations can do nothing of their own accord without actors, agents or representatives performing on their behalf. You as one of the people can act and move freely without registration and government regulation. Corporations are registered fictional entities in the virtual zone of a state or nations jurisdiction known as commercial space. Corporations are regulated by government agencies and are only allowed to exist through laws pertaining to virtual commercial space. Again a person/corporation cannot exit in nature. People on the other hand are born with inalienable rights and exist in Nature and as a basic rule are governed by the laws of physics and laws of Nature. Corporations have existed for perhaps thousands of years. Originally created so that political sovereigns and the very wealthy could engage in commercial activity with foreign jurisdictions anonymously and or provide its principles with limited liability.
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mu chowdhury
Truth is elusive
03:37 PM on 02/07/2012
If the ruling goes in favor of the
orcas, the canines and humans
will find themselves in trouble as
consumers.
Waiting with interest.
03:24 PM on 02/07/2012
I thought it stood for People Enjoying Tasty Animals?
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christiana
Lover of all things Dwight.
05:41 PM on 02/07/2012
Got any more zingers from last century?
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messy
artist, writer, adventurer
06:00 PM on 02/08/2012
Actually, the last century was full of wonderful zingers....however, the Tee shirt is still on sale.
03:24 PM on 02/07/2012
Well, I think they have a point.. don't think they'll get too far with it.. I've always felt sorry for all the animals in captivity.. remember that Twilight Zone episode when the astronaut found himself in a zoo on some distant planet..? That was a good one..
03:12 PM on 02/07/2012
It would seem to have implications for abortion of human fetuses as well. Should be an interesting show if the judge rules in favor of the orcas.
03:00 PM on 02/07/2012
It's so interesting reading the pro and con notes. I believe what I am seeing as a difference between the two relates to education and life experiences. Those who are influenced by PETA would seem to have less biological education and fail to see the various facets justifying "zoos" as educational situations. Most people don't get to travel and see the various mammals in their native habitats, so interest in their continued existence can be obtained through sea worlds and zoos. Actually, if PETA really wants to do something useful, it ought to concentrate on the massive, world-wide over-harvesting of marine fishes. Populations are collapsing because of the greed of commercial fishermen.
03:05 PM on 02/07/2012
"Those who are influenced by PETA would seem to have less biological education and fail to see the various facets justifying "zoos" as educationa­l situations­."

Let me guess, you are the ignorant one at parties.

No one is questioning the educational value or the need to save a species.
THAT CAN BE DONE without a dog and pony show.
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Gina Parziale
03:45 PM on 02/07/2012
And ending the dog and pony show can be done without giving a whale constitutional rights. In fact-an effort nt trying to give them constitutional rights would probably be more effective at improving their quality of life as it would actually have a chance to pass!
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Chad Wheeler
05:30 PM on 02/08/2012
And your point could have been made without the insults.
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catcrazee
Rescue...save their life and yours
05:49 PM on 02/07/2012
I suppose you have not heard of "sea-kittens"...I think they are already on it. Every movement has its radical side. Why should not the movement to see animals treated ethically have one? They might not have a hope in h*ll, but at least people are paying attention.
02:46 PM on 02/07/2012
PETA people are a bunch of seriously maladjusted fruitcakes.

They give legitimate protest a bad name.
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DanInAustin
Got 99 problems but dang that's a lot of problems.
02:49 PM on 02/07/2012
Actually, most of the PETA folks I've met have been pretty nice. Back in college, they were constantly inviting me and my friends to their potlucks.
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wolflover3825
Hungry Like the Wolf.
03:01 PM on 02/07/2012
Probably with real pot.
03:24 PM on 02/07/2012
Amen!
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ThurmanLady
more fun - and logical - to be right
02:37 PM on 02/07/2012
Theodore Shaw is correct. Not only does this defy common sense (which obviously isn't as common as it used to be), it is downright asinine. The Constitution is in place for "we, the people."

If PETA was to win their suit against "enslaving an intelligent, highly social species," does that mean the unintelligent species have no voice?

Hell unleashed is most likely an understatement. Stupidity unleashed is reality.
BBlaw16
It just. Doesn't. Matter.
12:56 PM on 02/08/2012
No. PETA also lambasted the President for swatting a fly. Equal rights. Plants should be next. Plants are sentient beings.
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ThurmanLady
more fun - and logical - to be right
03:19 PM on 02/08/2012
Plants are people, too, right?
02:26 PM on 02/07/2012
I agree this is a special moment for Mankind - I realize the article is about animal slavery but that is only the tip of the iceberg. Perhaps all the people supporting this law suit have already started their conversion to vegetarianism. Especially since the implications will eventually extend to all the farm and exotic animals that humans currently enjoy as meal choices. I suspect this segment of global society suffers from millenniums of gilt for being a part of the natural food chain that was created long before our species entered this little neck of the universe. Until Man creates a means to openly and effectively communicate with all animals I suspect the food chain will remain as is. That which was made by our mutual Creator. Life is energy in various forms. Consumed and recycled into more life energy of various forms. Until Mankind evolves to the point we can obtain our life sustaining sustenance from the air we breath, this IS our circle of life.
02:34 PM on 02/07/2012
Lets not forget the hazards of burning wood in your fireplace. It once being seen as a necessity is now (through education) a toxic mess. That poisons everyone in and around your home.

We now have much better ways to keep ourselves warm. But we are so selfish and habitual about it. We do not want to see the damage that fires cause. They are so cozy and warm.

Such is the fate of the ocean dwelling mammals. So cute, you just want to kiss and pet them. Not wanting to see that we are educated enough to see that that it is no longer OK to keep these creatures as pets.
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ThurmanLady
more fun - and logical - to be right
02:45 PM on 02/07/2012
One who has already converted to vegetarian­ism, I presume? No, kissing and petting a shark just doesn't appeal to me.
BBlaw16
It just. Doesn't. Matter.
12:58 PM on 02/08/2012
These other ways of keeping warm? Oil, natural gas, coal fired electricity? Brilliant.

Wood fires a toxic mess? Get a grip. Nature's forest fires are cleansing, and mostly burn wood.
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DanInAustin
Got 99 problems but dang that's a lot of problems.
02:48 PM on 02/07/2012
Two separate arguments. One can acknowledge the biological need to eat meat (in certain circumstances) without supporting needless cruelty and degradation.
BBlaw16
It just. Doesn't. Matter.
12:58 PM on 02/08/2012
Oh. No. It. Cannot.
02:14 PM on 02/07/2012
I completely agree with PETA on this issue. Equal protection for animals as fellow-sentient beings under the law is the cutting-edge civil rights issue of the 21st century, becoming increasingly self-eviodent as human consciousness advances, which it must if we are to survive as inhabitants of this planet.
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Chad Wheeler
05:32 PM on 02/08/2012
So do you also agree that bacteria and mosquitoes and mice should have the same status under the law?
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messy
artist, writer, adventurer
06:05 PM on 02/08/2012
Actually, that's what the animal rights movement is all about. Man is inferior to nature and must act that way.
09:15 PM on 02/08/2012
I'd look into it for mice. I'll leave bacteria and mosquitoes for the 22nd century visionaries to sort out.