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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
altheschrod
I'm pedaling hard.
08:20 PM on 05/25/2012
I know nothing of Judaism and don't intend to learn, but found the article interesting and inspirational. There's a pretty good chance that if there IS a God, he is the God of Jews, because history seems to point toward civilization beginning very near where those ancient scribes were from.
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JPETERB
10:46 PM on 05/25/2012
If there is a God, God is the God all of Creation.
Last time I looked at the night sky, it is a bigger place than Earth.
Nor is this Creation owned any particular creatures living on the Earth.
Much less God.
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simon Bar
Nothing Left To Do But Smile,Smile Smile..
07:00 PM on 05/26/2012
Finally some sense. Thank you
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wiseman103199
Not right or left! Right or wrong!
11:17 PM on 05/25/2012
There is a God and God is for all.
04:37 PM on 05/26/2012
"There is a God and God is for all." Isn't that from "The Three Musketeers?" Or was that, "All for one and one for all?" Never mind.
07:50 PM on 05/25/2012
They originated from the Indian subcontinent from a place they still call Sion there (in its Anglicized form). The fact the Ashkenazim did not wish to associated with the Spehardis and other "lessers" has distorted the whole history of Judaism.

The 12 tribes were expelled from Dwarka after Lord Shiva's people conquered the city. These tribes then moved on towards what was Mesopotamia and westwards from there.

This whole fiction of the star of David (the star of Devi or Deva) prescribed and found in most Hindu homes and businesses is the exact same thing a few thousand years from the start of the reign of David.

There is lots more not least of which are the names and the word in the Hebrew Sanskrit vocabulary. They ought to look closer at the similarities and their roots rather than trying to be one over the other.

The Brahmins and the descendants of Abraham are built of the same myth of superiority. Brahama and Abraham are but mere variations to the same theme.
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vaygollybum
just wondering
11:17 PM on 05/25/2012
It's hard for many believers, of anything, to open their minds to the idea that there could be more to their belief than what they belive. To some it is an admittance that they are not totally right. Some egos just can't handle it. So sad. They miss out on so much of life.
12:30 AM on 05/26/2012
I could not agree more with you.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chatnuptime1
The Wolf's Den.
11:02 PM on 05/26/2012
True they would then discover that other cultures and religions follow a very similar path of understanding regardless of the time or place they find them at. Ignorance would have them beleive they are the only one. One world concept. Every religion on earth has a common theme. Religion is nothing more then man's persuit of bettering himself but mankind has this sticky button that keeps it stuck on tribalism and aversion to inclusion. So here we are fighting over writing and thoughts. Mankind is headed in the right direction as time goes on. But our romancing of the Divine thought process will become more a behavior of inclusion and justice rather then divisive and exclusive. We can no longer afford a peicemeal segmentation of our planet if we expect to survive.
FrancisKing
Unitarian Christian
05:54 AM on 05/26/2012
"They originated from the Indian subcontinent from a place they still call Sion"

No, they came from Egypt, which was under the control of a non-Egyptian monarchy, and which saw the Jews, now fully paid up Egyptians, as a serious threat.

Exodus 1:6.
06:21 AM on 05/26/2012
yes the crescent as they say. A load of bunkum. Menachem begins theory.
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Ossit
Ossit
06:50 PM on 05/25/2012
'Bout time we got noticed.
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07:33 PM on 05/25/2012
Times they are a'changin'!
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Ossit
Ossit
11:39 PM on 05/25/2012
Yahoo! Favorited.
02:42 AM on 05/26/2012
Hey. As a old man I have noticed you all the time. Not much I can do about it any more. It is high time we got an equal share of input from women. Tell that to the all male panels in government debating what and how to take women's right and health away.

It is interesting how my feelings sexual equality came about some fifty years ago. My sister won a scholarship from an Major Aluminum Company in Architecture to a well known university because of drawing she had submitted. My sister's name sounded "male". When the Aluminum company found out to "their horrors" that my sister was not a man they rescinded the scholarship on the basis that she is a woman and will likely get married and never complete the course. I was pissed. My sister got married in her sophmore year and had three children and graduated and is still a practising Architect.
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Ossit
Ossit
03:42 AM on 05/26/2012
Nope, can't be rid of me phyrro. Been here a year. It's high time we got an equal share of input from women? I AM a woman!! Been a genetic woman for 53 years and counting. My screen name is genderless. It's the name of a made up tribe in my hobby serial story. My icon is my main character, my alter ego if you will. I know all about what male panels are doing to us and it ticks me off. I defend womens' rights.

Well that's great that your sister is an Architect. Her scholarship was rescinded which isn't right. It's good that she graduated and is a practicing Architect. But she did nothing to try to change that scholarship take away. What did she expect, another woman to change things?
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GOODDOC1
"civil war" is an oxymoron
06:50 AM on 05/26/2012
My father was the same way with my eldest sisters. He saw no need for them to be educated beyond high school. But they each received full scholarships, so there was nothing he could do about. His "graduation" presents to each of them: Matching sets of luggage. Luckily I was 13 when he died, so I was able to do whatever I wanted to, so I went into Medicine!
04:19 PM on 05/25/2012
l'choo gevarot !! as a conservative jew it has always been a problem to me that
jewish women have not been allowed to participate FREELY in our religious
lives. this is just a small beginning
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sageparadox
This has made a lot of people very angry...
05:35 PM on 05/25/2012
As you said, that is your problem. Get use to it.
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simon Bar
Nothing Left To Do But Smile,Smile Smile..
07:05 PM on 05/26/2012
The word "Tradition" is the operative word in religion. Afraid to change rules made in bronze age times in maan made religions.
Women just say no to your sexist religion!
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Claude Hosch
A single bracelet does not jingle
01:38 PM on 05/25/2012
What purpose does a woman's education and talent serve if never put to use. I think power hungry, insecure men should take a breath.
07:23 PM on 05/25/2012
It's not my business to criticize Orthodox Jews for their rules, nor to criticize the Catholic Church because women can't be priests. Don't like it, don't convert.
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SmileAndActNice
Utilitarianism, the -ism that works.
11:26 PM on 05/28/2012
Don't like it, **leave** and let the halls of hate and insecurity stand empty.

Their faith is false anyway. When God does something they don't like they turn their face from it and deny it.

Who are they to say God may not give gifts to a woman without their permission?
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leora kurtzer
07:33 PM on 05/25/2012
I completely agree! I'm Jewish and went to all girls orthodox jewish schools my entire life and my friends are some of the most brilliant people i know but they will never be able to use their education because they were never encouraged to ( unlike their equally smart brothers)
04:51 PM on 05/26/2012
I'm a Jewish man who raised two daughters, both wonderful and both different, but both were raised to believe in themselves and in their ability to achieve independence and personal liberty. They are both married, both are raising children, both are successful in their chosen professions, both as different as chalk and cheese and both loving and dedicated to each other and to our family. As that wonderful, sage old Jewish woman once loudly proclaimed, "Who could ask for anything more.?!" (in case you're wondering, it was Ethyl Merman, singing "I got rhythm"; music by George Gershwin and lyrics by Ira Gershwin, two other Jewish sages of old) This begs the question, when the Third Testament is written, will it come out as a show on Broadway first, then be made into a movie, and finally an HBO mini-series? I'm not sure, but I'll bet that, like the first two, the major Producers will be Jewish.
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F-BVFF
10:54 AM on 05/29/2012
Well that's not a Jewish concept. It obviously wasn't a good school or they weren't good students. Women are supposed to use all the tools at their disposal to make their lives and the world a better place. Not using 100% of your brilliance, even to the slightest degree, would be completely antithetical to Judaism.
01:23 PM on 05/25/2012
A Torah Scroll was written by Miriam Benayahu in 16th century Yemen, and D'varim Shebichtav discussed a woman WHO WROTE a Sefer Torah. There have been many women here and there in Jewish history who were scribes. I don't know what it was like for those women 250-500-1,000 years ago who were writing and repairing Sifrei all over the Jewish world, but their names deserve to be known - it's those women from hundreds of years ago who deserve the credit also! I look forward to a time when sofrot are ubiquitous, and no longer anything special :)
01:08 PM on 05/25/2012
Traditional rabbinic authorities who have written of their support of women writing Torah scrolls over the past 800 or so years include the Rosh, the Rif, the Tur, the Drisha, the Sha'agat Aryeh, and the Be'er Heytav. Devarim Shebichtav refers to women having written Sifrei Torah, and There was at least one Sefer Torah written by Miriam Benayahu about 500 years ago in Yemen. There have been many women, here and there, in Jewish history who have written and/or repaired various holy scrolls, and their names deserve to be known (see: http://soferet.blogspot.co.uk/2006/02/women-writing.html). In the meantime, having been a soferet myself since 2003, I look forward to a time when sofrot are ubiquitous, and no longer anything special :)
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Josh Fleet
Associate Editor, HuffPost Religion
02:06 PM on 05/25/2012
Very interesting! I feel that tipping point could be approaching. What do you think?
FrancisKing
Unitarian Christian
05:57 AM on 05/26/2012
It wouldn't be before time. The Bible has plenty of women of importance, including Ruth, Esther, and Deborah.
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F-BVFF
10:58 AM on 05/29/2012
Very interesting indeed! Perhaps a tipping point where women are more of a force than men in keeping the world going? That's nothing new...it's been happening since the beginning of the Jewish people :)
07:26 PM on 05/25/2012
Some people "convert" to "Judaism," but it's not "kosher," thus not accepted by Orthodox Jews. Reform allows females to do all that the males do, including being rabbis. To each his own. Go to the shul that suits you, but accept their teachings and rules when you do.
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David J Cohen
09:55 PM on 05/25/2012
What you say here is not true concerning Orthodox conversion. Non Jews can convert through Orthodox supervision and are then considered as Jewish as anyone else born Jewish. By the way, race has no bearing...I have seen many orthodox black jews in Israel.
12:44 PM on 05/25/2012
I would say you are really dug in. Touching inanimate objects like it has power. You have learned nothing with your Torah circle. Around and around you go getting dizzier as you go.
Stop being picky about the bible.
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pkafin
12:40 PM on 05/26/2012
To whom are you speaking?
12:14 PM on 05/25/2012
Has any one actually ever read the torah? The treatment of women in the torah is beyond frightening.
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chaya
Another proud veteran
12:47 PM on 05/25/2012
I have read the Torah. Many, many people have read the Torah. In fact, we read the Torah once a year. And I honestly don't know what you're talking about. Compared to the treatment of women around the ancient world at the time, the Israelite woman had it made.

Incidentally, do you recall that Deborah was one of the Judges? (A judge was the leader of the people, like a king or chief). And do you know just how powerful the prophetess Miriam was? Judith? Esther?

The treatment of women in the ancient Middle East was beyond horrible. The Israelites were a shining light of feminism compared to them.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Alan Lurie
02:11 PM on 05/25/2012
Hi Chaya,
Thank you for your terrific comment that corrects a common misconception. As you note, at a time when women were abused and treated like disposable property, Judaism took a strong stand in the direction of fair treatment and respect for women. The Jewish wedding contract - the ketubah - clearly states how the wife is to be protected and cared for.
Kol hakavod to you, and Shabbat shalom!
Alan
04:21 PM on 05/25/2012
you omitted the ketubah. for over 2500 years this marriage contract
guaranteed women's rights
FrancisKing
Unitarian Christian
06:00 AM on 05/26/2012
I have read the Torah. I have set myself the task of reading the whole Christian Bible, Torah and all. I am approximately 2/3 of the way through Psalms.

By today's standards, yes, "The treatment of women in the torah is beyond frightening."

Times are a'changing.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
James Clovispoint
11:21 AM on 05/25/2012
"Seltzer recalled the story of the Primordial Torah, the stream of letters without space or end that Moses received from God and formed into words. She wondered if she could move a space around and glean some new meaning. It worked: One simple space change and"...
Once you start moving spaces and letters, you change the meaning. This is exactly what Bart Erhman has said in his book "Misquoting Jesus". By multiplying the number of intentional changes and unintentional changes that have occurred over centuries of copying scriptures, there is little or anything original to them at all anymore.
Seltzer herself has just given us an excellent demonstration of that, and in her own words.
So, copying such texts is great art form and a fine hobby, but please think twice about passing it along as accurate and absolute.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Josh Fleet
Associate Editor, HuffPost Religion
11:26 AM on 05/25/2012
Seltzer didn't actually write the Torah with the space changed around. The scroll she wrote is just like every other Torah scroll.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
James Clovispoint
12:31 PM on 05/25/2012
That is not the point. If it occurred to her, who knows how many times it occurred to the thousands of others before he,r who may, by error or intentionally, modified it?
The examples of small modifications, accidental or not, in all languages, including English are legion. Take for example: 1) What is up the road ahead? becoming 2) What is up the road, a head? with two slight changes.
This example is trivial, but I am sure that you get my lead.
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03:02 PM on 05/25/2012
Do you REALLY expect me to trust Erhman to quote my Messiah JESUS Christ correctly?? And why do my people insist that our homeland is Iraq (BABYLON)? Do you have ANY idea how heart-breaking it is to see my people quibble over legalism, when our most prized possession stands before you and yet you deny HIM.
Jesus said: The generation that sees the Jews return unto Israel will not all pass away before the Son of Man returns.
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05:57 PM on 05/25/2012
You wait then. I trust no man who claims to know when God will call us home.
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James Clovispoint
10:20 AM on 05/26/2012
Erhman cannot quote Jesus, nobody can. That is just the point. We have nothing authentic and original to quote. Jesus, if he existed, did not keep a diary, I think we can agree on that. How does anybody know then, what he said in the garden of Gethsemane, when all the others are asleep? How do we know what he said to the adulteress woman when all the others are gone? The stories of the Bible have never been corroborated; it is all hearsay at best, or myth at worst.
As for the return of the Son, I wouldn't hold my breath.
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GraphicMatt
Some people take the microbio way too seriously.
11:04 AM on 05/25/2012
If the hardcore Orthodox have an issue with this, I say tough snot. Don't ust the Torahs these women have scribed. I am sure there are plenty of others that would be honored to use them.
12:16 PM on 05/25/2012
I thought the western world depicts Muslim's as these over bearing female haters. It seems to me this is alive and well in the Jewish world. I am amazed that it is contraversal for a Jewish woman to write scrolls.
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GraphicMatt
Some people take the microbio way too seriously.
12:34 PM on 05/25/2012
This is not alive and well in the Jewish world.  You are aware that the hardocre orthodox do not represent the entire Jewish diaspora right?
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Ossit
Ossit
06:49 PM on 05/25/2012
I guess you didn't read in the article:"Genesis 3:16, where she had chosen to begin her scroll, come after Adam and Eve have eaten from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. God's not too happy, and Eve bears the brunt. God curses her: ְְוהוּא יִמְשָׁל-בָּךְ -- "...and he shall rule over you." That's your CHRISTIAN Bible saying that women should be ruled and subservient so don't go blasting against Muslims who do NOT have women haters. There are fanatics in all religions who twist things to suit them.
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Artemesian
Spiritual Messenger of the Earth
10:37 AM on 05/25/2012
Wow. :)
10:06 AM on 05/25/2012
There's a reference to "Jewish legal authorities". There are no Jewish legal authorities. At best you have a plethora of "one man's opinion". I don't remember the Jews ever holding an election to nominate people to legislate over them. Any claims to have such authority are illegitimate.

Congrats to these women and other Jewish women, fully 50% of the population, who exhibit the courage to do what they believe to be right.
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Gonzo36
Pro-awesome!
10:47 AM on 05/25/2012
Any Rabbi is considered a 'Jewish legal authority'. And yes, congrats to these women. I think it is wonderful.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Val Mercy
In war, truth is the first casualty.
12:06 PM on 05/25/2012
It's an authority of law, meaning a knowledge. Not by election.
02:33 PM on 05/25/2012
You made that up. So I or some unelected, unrepresentative guy, (always a guy),  with a beard, sidecurls and a huge hat can conjure up any kind of nonsense and it's enforceable law? I think not.