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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Scurvydog74
06:10 PM on 05/24/2012
"Now, forty-six are so dangerous, our government says, they will be held indefinitely, without trial.". You have to wonder how dangerous they would have been before they were tortured and forced to suffer in seclusion and squalor for 11 years of their pitiful lives... Yes, we are an "exceptional nation" of animals.
06:20 PM on 05/24/2012
Well, last I looked, unlike some of the paradises you might like to transform us into, this "nation of animals" has an exit that we do not lock. Try it, you'll see.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Protocolor
空耳モード
09:28 PM on 05/24/2012
How does that work for those folks getting tortured?
10:22 PM on 05/24/2012
The only thing he indicates he'd 'like to transform us into" is a country that lives by its own public philosophy.
01:07 PM on 05/25/2012
The exit from this "nation of animals" is unlocked, my friend.
JJRED01
Born Kansan moved to SoCal. Too extremes.
05:48 PM on 05/24/2012
Yeah, why go around "torturing" these folks when we can just attack via drone and kill them altogether? That's so much more humane.

To rip off Skynyrd: "Now Waterboarding does not bother me, does your conscience bother you? Tell the truth"
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Protocolor
空耳モード
09:33 PM on 05/24/2012
Except... what about those of us who find both torture and killing by drone abhorrent? There is actually a great deal of crossover in those groups, ya` know.
10:24 PM on 05/24/2012
Perhaps neither of those actions is the best course. Why would you present those as if they were alternative routes to the same end? They are not.
JJRED01
Born Kansan moved to SoCal. Too extremes.
12:21 PM on 05/25/2012
Fair enough Protocolor and ebranson....the two methods aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. And I did overlook that there are a large number of folks who don't prefer either approach. The reaility I fear is that US agencies and our represenatives in DC do not necessarily take that point of view.

Dare I ask ebranson......what is the "end" game?
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lakat
Haiti lives.
05:43 PM on 05/24/2012
I try (mostly in vain) to tell people that there are bad people doing terrible things who deserve to be tortured or given the death penalty but I believe in neither because of what it does to US, the good people seeking justice. The toll it takes on one's soul to kill or torture another is not worth doing it. You must give up your soul, just as if you had made a deal with the devil and why would you do that? We are civilized, we hold ourselves to the highest standards. We wish to be a beacon of freedom and justice to the world. If those things are true, then we must come to the conclusion that torturing and killing even the most horrible of mass murderers does more damage to ourselves and our country than it brings justice. It matters who we are, who we want to be. Then we can hold our heads and our flag high. Until then...not so much.
07:29 PM on 05/24/2012
We have never been any better than any other nation. We just happened to create an economic monster that gave us much wealth for better part of a century. In that regard we have been blessed, but those days are in the past. We can still hold our heads up high, but we must realize that we aren't anything special. Bill Moyers, unfortunately, lives in a fairytale world. Reality is much more base.
10:28 PM on 05/24/2012
We were a pretty active part of a widespread anti-monarchical movement that ultimately contibuted to improving the overall standard of living, don't you think?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
OldsCool52
It's easy when you know how.
05:41 PM on 05/24/2012
This is a tough one. The comfort of our personal and national moral decency versus a dangerous insecure reality. I want to be above it, but I'm not there yet. I can do without the truth, I'd rather not know (in all honesty I'd rather our enemys didn't know).
10:18 PM on 05/24/2012
"enemies". Get with it.
10:30 PM on 05/24/2012
I think it's pretty clear that torture does not actuaaly bring results, so you can be above it without risk. It's a win-win.
05:38 PM on 05/24/2012
The American people I talk to never complain about torturing terrorist, the only place it seems an obsession is in the news media! If only the terrorist were white males and Christians, then the liberals could put every effort into their demise.
07:29 PM on 05/24/2012
Well spoken, sir.
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arachnenetworker
Vote Green, not RepubliDem!
09:16 AM on 05/25/2012
You sure aren't talking to the Americans I'm talking to, then!
05:32 PM on 05/24/2012
This is the same attitude the liberals have with our national budget. If you want to honor the nearly 16 trillion dollars we have spent worth it, we should just keep spending. The Soviet Union made many mistakes the liberals can not seem to learn from one is the Socialist Government ideas and the other is Afghanistan. The liberals never stop impressing each other with brilliant ideas, the country runs out of money. Why do I get the impression this man was a hippie Vietnam war protester and was calling George Bush a war monger. The hypocrisy of the American Liberal Establishment is like a SNL script.
05:16 PM on 05/24/2012
Under US treaty commitments, which not only have the force of law, but are second only to the US Constitution, the US has a legal duty to investigate its use of torture. The present administration is so frightened of being attacked by the GOP for doing so, that it has effectively buried the issue. Yet, we already know that there was torture, who authorized it, how well it worked (not at all; all of the substantive information from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was obtained by FBI interrogators before the CIA became involved), how it resulted in false leads and delayed the killing of Osama bin Laden, and who is lying about it now. But, Americans are children in their understanding of themselves and history and refuse to consider that we, as a nation, can be wrong. It is tragic.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Allene Stucki
06:45 PM on 05/24/2012
Wow! Can we ever be wrong, as evidenced by addisonsteele's opinions.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
thehummelr
Former conservative who looked behind the curtain
06:46 PM on 05/24/2012
Well said.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Carl Caroli
I just don't understand people
05:11 PM on 05/24/2012
Torture is not acceptable. There is no excuse. Not even sad to say, saving lives. We can not stoop to the level of murderers and and people that resent our way of life, good or bad. It's just not acceptable. Once you've lowered yourself to them, you are them. America used to have ideals. Now we thrive on fear and hate that equals those that wish us harm. It's just not acceptable. We absolutely must be the gold standard, or all else is lost. Might does not make right. Virtue makes right.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
OldsCool52
It's easy when you know how.
05:45 PM on 05/24/2012
I love your comment, I really do, however, in this world I'm not sure if that is a sustainable formula for surviving. We are dealing with extremeists who cannot be defeated conventionally.
08:41 PM on 05/24/2012
And you know this how?
06:24 PM on 05/24/2012
I think you over-simplify the issue. If torturing a single terrorist would prevent the detonation of a nuclear bomb on the DC mall, I think most people would favor doing so.

I'm not saying that the torture of any particular person has prevented that kind of catastrophe (we don't know). What I'm saying is that the blanket statement that "torture is not acceptable", noble as it sounds, is not very persuasive.
10:42 AM on 05/26/2012
Since all -- ALL -- information gained by coercion is unreliable by definition, then torture cannot ever yield reliable information.

Torture is always -- criminally and morally -- wrong.