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IndependentBurgeoise
Belief in a cruel god makes a cruel man.
12:56 PM on 07/27/2012
As a white person, I have to say I thought she was a European. She doesn't look native american.
Also, wasn't it the catholic church who led to the extermination of many native tribes? Perhaps not the Mohawk, as a good number of Mohawk were in French Canada or close to New Amsterdam(the French and the Dutch were the least invasive and destructive of the New World colonial powers, they merely sought trade. That's not saying the French did not commit atrocities, note the caribbean island sugar slave colonies started and owned by the French[Haiti]), but they did a good job of exterminating the natives in South and Central America.
As a descendant of both the english and the irish, I have to say they both did collosal damage to native american cultures.
So, in general, christian cultures did plenty of damage to the native cultures. And now the church is raising a native american woman to sainthood about three hundred years after her death?
Hah, so in another three hundred they will raise a gay person to sainthood. This is ridiculous.
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Robert Ponce
"Let's go Eight to the bar."
01:56 PM on 07/27/2012
Job one on day one, where Conquistadors placed their sweaty feet on, was to conquer. Any Priests or Friers (I don't mean cooks) that went along for the ride, did not convert by love and reasoning. They converted by sword (very effective). To avoid death, many said "I believe, I believe" and were spared, handed a Bible or a catechism or a pamphlet and so and thusly grew the church.
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chaya
Another proud veteran
04:15 PM on 07/27/2012
I would have said "I believe" too if someone was threatening to cut off my feet and hands or burn me at the stake.

No martyrdom for me, thank you...
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Robert Ponce
"Let's go Eight to the bar."
10:56 AM on 08/22/2012
Good show Mushman_Peets.
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Robert Ponce
"Let's go Eight to the bar."
02:05 PM on 07/27/2012
The fact she doesn't look Native American should not surpise you, really! Why? Think about it. Hollywood, when needing Indians to kill in a movie, actually used whites and painted them to simulate the savages. However, the paint did not change facial structure. That didn't matter. "We can't have REAL INDIANS here, what would people think?" they may have deduced. Same with the statue. The sculptor or someone, hired a white woman to pose on account there may have been no Indians available or applying for the gig. Capiche?
IndependentBurgeoise
Belief in a cruel god makes a cruel man.
03:32 PM on 07/27/2012
I just think natives should have a little more of the spotlight. They don't really seem to be mentioned much at all. Mainly because they aren't a huge demographic force, but still...
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Robert Ponce
"Let's go Eight to the bar."
12:46 PM on 07/27/2012
"The Doctrine of Discovery provided that by law and divine intention European Christian countries gained power and legal rights over indigenous non-Christian peoples immediately upon their “discovery” by Europeans."- Quote from Robert J. Miller; "Native America: Discovered and Conquered" History teaches that although Conquerers were religious, their main objective was to secure the land they wanted by any method. These methods were no way near what Biblical instruction mandated. The Catholic Church had and has it's own methods for convincing, I mean conversion. This is not hate. It's history written.
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amadeus617
04:20 PM on 07/27/2012
Robert, get back on your meds. You sound like your having a withdrawl..
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Robert Ponce
"Let's go Eight to the bar."
11:02 AM on 08/22/2012
Thanks Amadiabolos.
lawmantoo
As I see it from here
11:15 PM on 07/27/2012
History written by the Catholic Church.
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Robert Ponce
"Let's go Eight to the bar."
10:41 AM on 07/28/2012
For all intents and purposes, NOW they rather you didn't delve into history. The Church has always kept it's faithfull in ignorance- for the most part.
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alterego55
Resident tea grinder.
12:24 PM on 07/27/2012
Funny thing. Didn't a woman just recently recover from a flesh eating disease with no supernatural saintly intervention or hocus pocus?

Keep leading them by the nose Vatican, keep leading them by the nose. You'll protect your hierarchy for another 1,000 years.
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Stephen G Ford
Not sure WHAT this is for
12:57 PM on 07/27/2012
Alter... I want you to LISTEN and listen CLOSELY... You don't HAVE to believe that this little boy was HEALED... as long as HE DOES! Is that CLEAR ENOUGH for you? Maybe it IS a "PLACEBO EFFECT"... SO WHAT! MYOFB!
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LA RAM
01:36 PM on 07/27/2012
Stephen G Ford. I agree with you. These other folks just bashing this story...tells more about their hangups than a particular hangup of the Catholic Church. It's ironically funny.
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Bones Rhodes
10:59 PM on 07/27/2012
Right, Stephen: because St Eligius ( feast day - Dec 1 ) really did shoe horses by removing the legs, putting on the new shoes, and then re-attaching the legs.
01:08 PM on 07/27/2012
"...saintly...."

It's nice to think that St. Kateri is still thinking of us. Her life is the main argument of her goodness. To someone like her, nothing that happens is evil. She proves, one, on God's side, is a majority.
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alterego55
Resident tea grinder.
01:43 PM on 07/27/2012
I guess when Christianity calls, you better answer, or end up like the rest of her people - massacred, displaced and culturally dead.
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alterego55
Resident tea grinder.
12:20 PM on 07/27/2012
Who was it that led the massacre of Native American "heathens"? Oh yeah, Christians.
IndependentBurgeoise
Belief in a cruel god makes a cruel man.
12:50 PM on 07/27/2012
Everyone always seems to forget that little fact...
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05:37 PM on 07/27/2012
No, people don't "forget that little fact" because its brought up almost every time some one talks about Natives and Europeans from the time of colonization.
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QuestDGW
01:07 PM on 07/27/2012
F&F - Keep talking sense...
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Robert Ponce
"Let's go Eight to the bar."
12:08 PM on 07/27/2012
"Vatican to decide to proclaim Kateri a saint -- a step that will make her one of the church's holy role models, and the first Native American to be canonized." Does this come with some kind of compensation to her decendants on account of the indignities suffered.
lawmantoo
As I see it from here
11:20 PM on 07/27/2012
I wonder if anyone asked Kateri whether she wanted to be a Catholic Icon.
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Robert Ponce
"Let's go Eight to the bar."
10:21 AM on 07/28/2012
A Catholic Icon? Put that aside. Question- Did she, of her own tender, free will want the new, foreign religion at all? An educated guess, based on passed conversion tactics, may be one of three things. 1. she was too young to know she became Catholic. 2. Outwardly, she became Catholic but inwardly, she could not concieve or understand the vicious method of persuasion and 3. none of the above. Conclusion: No! She was not advised of her Miranda's or the high honor bestowed by a group of eunuch celibates.
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Robert Ponce
"Let's go Eight to the bar."
10:31 AM on 07/28/2012
Forget 'asking'. Those chosen to convert were the cream-of-the-crop, Catholic zealots-deputized to enforce the Papal's Bull! Let me put it to you this way. Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingram, GingRICH and other devotees of today are Son's of those pioneers. They didn't and don't ask OR take any prisoners.Kateri here, was clueless in Seattle or somehwere near those environs.
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Robert Ponce
"Let's go Eight to the bar."
07:00 AM on 08/23/2012
Thanks.
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12:04 PM on 07/27/2012
Ha! Oh the irony!

The Catholic Church used to gladly massacre indigenous people and nowadays they offer them sainthood.

Maybe they will a gay saint in a hundred years from now.
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LA RAM
01:39 PM on 07/27/2012
That's funny! Are you sure it will happen that soon, in a hundered years?
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Robert Ponce
"Let's go Eight to the bar."
08:26 AM on 07/29/2012
Most likely on account the gay life style is already prevalent among church leades-male and female.
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phal4875
The world is run by cats; we just feed them.
12:03 PM on 07/27/2012
The idea of choosing people to be saints because they have allegedly cured someone after the saint has died is hard to understand. Is there any real proof that deceased people spend some of their time curing disease?
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Bones Rhodes
11:04 PM on 07/27/2012
Hey, a couple of billion Catholics can't be wrong, can they ?
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H P
Citizen
11:58 AM on 07/27/2012
"Kateri was born in 1656 to a Mohawk father and an Algonquin/Christian mother in a Mohawk village in what is now Auriesville. (It was then called Ossernon.) When she was 4, a smallpox epidemic killed her parents and younger brother."

Smallpox brought to This land- 'Turtle Island" by Christian Europeans and killed MILLIONS.
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01:04 PM on 07/27/2012
Yes, but it wasnt on purpose (except the few times when it was). Small pox was carried by bovine, which natives did not have.
Do you blame native for giving us syphilis?
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H P
Citizen
02:12 PM on 07/27/2012
Columbus came here to find gold/riches/ trade route. he found natives so he wanted to "convert then to Catholics" like the Natives spiritual life was 'wrong. Then on Columbus 2nd trip he sent Natives back as Slaves.. for profit.
A good Christian?
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Bones Rhodes
11:05 PM on 07/27/2012
I don't think the natives "gave" the European invaders syphilis : I believe they kinda "took" it.
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Indigo1941
Time traveler.
11:54 AM on 07/27/2012
Funny, she doesn't look Amerindian.
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Ian McCullough
I love to live and live to love the life I lead
11:43 AM on 07/27/2012
These people are not saints, they are just fully human.
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William J Unverferth Sr
Snark attack.
12:36 PM on 07/27/2012
As are all saints. Perhaps you do not understand the definition?
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Ian McCullough
I love to live and live to love the life I lead
02:56 PM on 07/27/2012
The definition of "saint", or the definition of "human"? What I was expressing was that every human has the capacity to be virtuous or "holy" and do not need a formal canonizing to be deemed so.
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Bones Rhodes
11:11 PM on 07/27/2012
You know many humans who can levitate ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_of_Cupertino
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11:43 AM on 07/27/2012
I was curious about the boy mentioned in the article, Jake Finkbonner, so I googled his name and found his web site. A very courageous and inspiring story and worth reading.

http://jakefinkbonner.com/Home_Page.php
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QuestDGW
01:12 PM on 07/27/2012
"We thank the doctors at Children's Hospital for all that they did to save my life. I wouldn't be here without them."

That's the only thing he needed to say. This would be a "miracle" if there were no treatment given and no possible way his body could reject the disease without sound explanation.
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LaFemmeSASE
10:42 AM on 07/27/2012
My friend is named after her. Great news. I just had to share this link with her.
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Charlie Sitzes
10:37 AM on 07/27/2012
As Richard Dawkins would no doubt comment, "Mad...Barking Mad!"
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Davidc Smith
Montani Sempre Liberi
10:04 AM on 07/27/2012
Ineresting story...Great Lady....we need more people like her.
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10:03 AM on 07/27/2012
"But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart." 1 Samuel 16:7

"To sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father" Matthew 20:23

"He that endureth to the end shall be saved" Matthew 10:22

Do these verses tend to indicate it is not possible for any human to confer "sainthood" on another person? If Jesus indicated at Matthew 20:23 that the positions were reserved for His father to grant, how is it that any human can presume they have superior "granting power" than Jesus considered himself to have ?
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phal4875
The world is run by cats; we just feed them.
12:08 PM on 07/27/2012
The verse in 1 Samuel was just a warning by God to Samuel not to be taken in by the impressive appearance of Saul. God should have thought of that himself before making Saul the first king of the Israelites. Saul became an almost instant disaster. He was a great warrior, but he was a mentally unbalanced and a violently jealous man. God is, apparently, able to see the future, but he certainly used a bad crystal ball when checking Saul's future.
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10:08 PM on 07/27/2012
Did you miss the point that humans cannot see what God sees therefore, they are just blowing smoke when they say someone is or has gone to heaven ?
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William J Unverferth Sr
Snark attack.
12:37 PM on 07/27/2012
Canonization is recognition that they are in heaven, it does not make it so.
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10:10 PM on 07/27/2012
No it is not, it is just more of a self promoting publicity stunt to try to make people think they know what they are talking about.