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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Bob Metcalfe
Caught at 1st. slip trying to cut
05:40 PM on 09/22/2012
Wow this topic has legs. Only in America (and not in a nice way) :-).
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
11:37 AM on 09/22/2012
CREATIONIST LIE #16:  The Second Law of Thermodynamics says that systems must become more disordered over time. Living cells therefore could not have evolved from inanimate chemicals, and complex multicellular life could not have evolved from simple protozoa.

This argument derives from a misunderstanding of the Second Law. If it were valid, mineral crystals and snowflakes would also be impossible, because they, too, are complex structures that form spontaneously from disordered parts.

The Second Law actually states that the total entropy of a closed system (one that no energy or matter leaves or enters) cannot decrease. Entropy is a physical concept often casually described as disorder, but it differs significantly from the conversational use of the word.

More important, however, the Second Law permits parts of a system to decrease in entropy as long as other parts experience an offsetting increase. Thus, our planet as a whole can grow more complex because the sun pours heat and light onto it, and the greater entropy associated with the sun's nuclear fusion more than rebalances the scales. Simple organisms can fuel their rise toward complexity by consuming other forms of life and nonliving materials.
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
12:46 PM on 09/21/2012
CREATIONIST LIE #15:  Mathematically, it is inconceivable that anything as complex as a protein, let alone a living cell or a human, could spring up by chance.


Chance plays a part in evolution (for example, in the random mutations that can give rise to new traits), but evolution does not depend on chance to create organisms, proteins or other entities. Quite the opposite: natural selection, the principal known mechanism of evolution, harnesses nonrandom change by preserving "desirable" (adaptive) features and eliminating "undesirable" (nonadaptive) ones. As long as the forces of selection stay constant, natural selection can push evolution in one direction and produce sophisticated structures in surprisingly short times.

As an analogy, consider the 13-letter sequence "TOBEORNOTTOBE." Those hypothetical million monkeys, each pecking out one phrase a second, could take as long as 78,800 years to find it among the 2613 sequences of that length. But in the 1980s Richard Hardison of Glendale College wrote a computer program that generated phrases randomly while preserving the positions of individual letters that happened to be correctly placed (in effect, selecting for phrases more like Hamlet's). On average, the program re-created the phrase in just 336 iterations, less than 90 seconds. Even more amazing, it could reconstruct Shakespeare's entire play in just four and a half days.
11:13 AM on 09/25/2012
All of us must recognize that evolution is STILL A THEORY. That is a fact.
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
11:54 AM on 09/25/2012
Evolution is a fact.   Evolutionary theory describes how evolution works.
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
12:52 PM on 09/20/2012
CREATIONIST LIE #14: Evolution cannot explain how life first appeared on earth.

The origin of life remains very completely understood, but biochemists have learned a great deal about how primitive nucleic acids, amino acids and other building blocks of life can form and organize themselves into self-replicating, self-sustaining units, laying the foundation for cellular biochemistry.

Creationists sometimes try to invalidate all of evolution by pointing to science's current inability to explain the origin of life. But even if life on earth turned out to have a nonevolutionary origin (for instance, if aliens introduced the first cells billions of years ago), evolution from that event going forward would still be robustly confirmed by countless subsequent microevolutionary and macroevolutionary studies.
11:14 AM on 09/25/2012
An advertisement for microbiologists. AND Evolution is invalidated in terms of being a 'truth' because it is still only an unproven theory.
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
11:51 AM on 09/25/2012
You can say that all you wish but evolution is well-settled and has been for many decades.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
kadellagroove
Left leaning, Jeffersonian Whig.
02:21 AM on 09/20/2012
I wish Bill would get his show back... maybe gear it for adults. With all the advancements in science since his show aired can you imagine how awesome it would be???
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
12:10 AM on 09/20/2012
CREATIONIST LIE #13: If humans descended from monkeys, there wouldn’t still be monkeys.

‘This surprisingly common argument reflects several levels of ignorance about evolution. The first mistake is that evolution does not teach that humans descended from monkeys; it states that both have a common ancestor.

The deeper error is that this objection is like to saying, "If children descended from adults, there wouldn’t still be adults." New species evolve by splintering off from established ones, when populations of organisms become isolated from the main branch of their family and acquire sufficient differences to remain forever distinct. The parent species may survive indefinitely thereafter, or it may become extinct.’
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]
11:16 AM on 09/25/2012
Maezeppa adds psychobabble and more theories to the "theory of evolution". Yeah. That really clears things up. Way to go.
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
11:50 AM on 09/25/2012
Non-answer, but then, you're a creationist which means you have nothing honest to contribute.
09:29 PM on 09/19/2012
Please give my book some consideration. I created a new theory about the origins of our existence, The Theory of Conscious Energy. Please give my book some consideration. It blends Evolution, Creationism, Intelligent Design, The Big Bang Theory, Einstein, Newton, and Yin Yang Ideology to make something that makes sense for everyone. Get it on amazon, http://www.amazon.com/Theory-Conscious-Energy-Unity-ebook/dp/B0095D29ZC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1348100851&sr=8-2&keywords=theory+of+conscious+energy
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
12:10 AM on 09/20/2012
Don't Spam.
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
05:19 PM on 09/19/2012
CREATIONIST LIE #12:  The disagreements among even evolutionary biologists show how little solid science supports evolution.


'Evolutionary biologists passionately debate diverse topics: certain speciation details, the rates of evolutionary change, the ancestral relationships of birds and dinosaurs, whether Neandertals were a species apart from modern humans, and much more. These disputes are like those found in all other branches of science. Acceptance of evolution as a factual occurrence and a guiding principle is nonetheless universal in biology.

Unfortunately, dishonest creationists have shown a willingness to take scientists' comments out of context to exaggerate and distort the disagreements. Anyone acquainted with the works of paleontologist Stephen Jay Gould of Harvard University knows that in addition to co-authoring the punctuated-equilibrium model, Gould was one of the most eloquent defenders and articulators of evolution. (Punctuated equilibrium explains patterns in the fossil record by suggesting that most evolutionary changes occur within geologically brief intervals--which may nonetheless amount to hundreds of generations.) Yet creationists delight in dissecting out phrases from Gould's voluminous prose to make him sound as though he had doubted evolution, and they present punctuated equilibrium as though it allows new species to materialize overnight or birds to be born from reptile eggs.

When confronted with a quotation from a scientific authority that seems to question evolution, insist on seeing the statement in context. Almost invariably, the attack on evolution will prove illusory.'
11:26 AM on 09/25/2012
The "theory of evolution" is proving to be illusive more and more objective science examines it. That is, those scientists who aren't linking their grant money to perpetuated financial gain resulting from promoting the "theory of evolution" for sustained personal gain. We will all find out that the real evolution is a collection of evolution scientists creating a newly mutated income source bound for eternity by the continued promotion of evolution theory that results in increased funding paid by those who really don't care, at least 46% of us, about the theory of evolution. Round and round, like a broken record seeking the proper adjacent grove, perhaps by a chance mutation which allows the needle's escape, which eventually results in the static of the final ending grove at the end of the record. What a sweet sound that will be.
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
11:50 AM on 09/25/2012
ALL scientists accept evolution as true, with the exception of a few cranks.  99.98% - as close to perfect as one gets when dealing with human opinion.  Look, you're not even literate.  You've made so many glaring errors, both factual and grammatical that it's clear you don't know what you're talking about.  Instead, you've begun with your religion and are hysterically trying to defend it ... from reality.
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
03:01 PM on 09/18/2012
CREATIONIST LIE #11: “Increasingly, scientists doubt the truth of evolution

No evidence suggests that evolution is losing adherents. Pick up any issue of a peer-reviewed biological journal. You will find articles that support and extend evolutionary studies and that embrace evolution as a fundamental concept.

Conversely, serious scientific publications disputing evolution are all but nonexistent. In the mid-1990s George W. Gilchrist of the University of Washington surveyed thousands of journals in the primary literature, seeking articles on intelligent design or creation science.

Among those hundreds of thousands of scientific reports, he found none. In the past two years, surveys done independently by Barbara Forrest of Southeastern Louisiana University and Lawrence M. Krauss of Case Western Reserve University have been similarly fruitless.

Creationists retort that a closed-minded scientific community rejects their evidence. Yet according to the editors of Nature, Science and other leading journals, few antievolution manuscripts are even submitted.

Some antievolution authors have published papers in serious journals. Those papers, however, rarely attack evolution directly or advance creationist arguments; at best, they identify certain evolutionary problems as unsolved and difficult (which no one disputes). In short, creationists are not giving the scientific world good reason to take them seriously.
11:29 AM on 09/25/2012
Maezappa now gives us the impression that given 100 billion years, the evolutionist scientists will still be just a lost in trying to prove the "theory of evolution" and still demanding more funding to try and prove it.

We all must ask how much total money has been spent, oh say, from the mid-1800s, on evolution science when it could have been spent on many times more practical things. Like food, clothing, medicine and bibles.
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
11:46 AM on 09/25/2012
Scientists aren't pursuing "proof" of evolution any more than they pursue the "proof" of gravity.  The jury is in, science has moved on.    
02:25 PM on 09/18/2012
Until it is concretely proven one way or another which theory is correct, why should students not be exposed to multiple theories? Allow people to have access to multiple views, and allow them to decide which one they feel is right. I mean, how much does this really affect you in your day-to-day life?
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
CabinAgue
We are ALL in this together.
02:46 PM on 09/18/2012
Creationism is a magical myth.  Evolution is a SCIENTIFIC theory -- better understood than the Theory of Gravity.  You don't decide what you "feel is right" in science; you study the evidence.  Mountains of which exist for evolution, btw -- compared to none for Creationism (nor will there ever be).  There's no debate.
11:59 AM on 09/25/2012
Actually, the evidence is this, as thought by Bible believing, God fearing people. "We will all die. Our life, soul, person will leave the body. It doesn't merely vanish. It will be judged by the Almighty God of the Bible writings. We will all be held in absolute judgement for our positions, ideologies and actions while we were alive. For those who oppose God, there will be certain punishment, for unbelief and for science which promoted wrong doing on Earth. The truth about the theory of evolution will be exposed to all, by God. God is described as Almighty creator who doesn't need time as a crutch for creating what He wills. Only man perceives that time is required. That's man's perspective which is severely limited when rightfully compared to the Almighty's. You are entitled to you opinion and view. But in the end, Christians know, you will be held accountable for wrong views and God will decide that, not me/us."
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
02:58 PM on 09/18/2012
Evolution is verified, validated and a fact not in dispute.   This has been the case for many long decades.   Furthermore, the "other theory" is religious and has zero evidence.  Worse, it contradicts much of the objective evidence that exists.  You might as well teach your kids voodoo is a curative theory equal to vaccines.
02:13 PM on 09/18/2012
It called the big bag THEORY and not big bang FACT for a reason.
02:24 PM on 09/18/2012
you should probably look up the definition of a scientific theory. it's different than a layman's theory (which is more like a hypothesis).
11:37 AM on 09/25/2012
Still, a hypothesis is STILL non-truth and non-fact UNTIL proven true. Evolutionists will NEVER prove evolution absolutely, scientifically. It's a never-ending, self-perpetuating drain of funds and the scientists know full well they need to stop this unresolvable act and go get real production jobs.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
CabinAgue
We are ALL in this together.
02:42 PM on 09/18/2012
This is addressed multiple times below -- you can look for "CREATIONIST LIE #8" just a few posts done for one of many...
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
01:20 PM on 09/18/2012
CREATIONIST LIE #10:  “Science cannot explain the Cambrian Explosion.”  

-----First, any attack that begins with “science cannot explain” is a red herring.  Every time science resolves one issue, it leads to more questions to ask.  This will be the case for as long as humans retain the trait of curiosity.  ---- Besides, much is becoming more known about that geoperiod.

The Cambrian appearance of fossils representing diverse phyla has long inspired hypotheses about possible genetic or environmental catalysts of early animal evolution. Recently, however, data has begun to emerge that can resolve the sequence of genetic and morphological innovations, environmental events, and ecological interactions that collectively shaped Cambrian evolution. Assembly of the modern genetic tool kit for development and the initial divergence of major animal clades occurred during the Proterozoic Eon. Crown group morphologies diversified in the Cambrian through changes in the genetic regulatory networks that organize animal ontogeny. Cambrian radiation may have been triggered by environmental perturbation near the Proterozoic-Cambrian boundary and subsequently amplified by ecological interactions within reorganized ecosystems
11:48 AM on 09/25/2012
An old proverb is appropriate here: "When words are multiplied, sin is more likely" This is true for all people regardless of belief, religion, political preference. Let's see, who in these posts uses the most words? Hmmm?

The more steps a person walks, the greater the probability that a trip will happen.
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
11:52 AM on 09/25/2012
Yes, and yet you continue with your wordy rant which only amounts to stamping your little foot and yelling "Is NOT!  Is NOT!"  Grow up.
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
11:07 AM on 09/18/2012
CREATIONIST LIE #9   “Evolution is unscientific, because it is not testable or falsifiable. It makes claims about events that were not observed and can never be re-created.


This blanket dismissal of evolution ignores important distinctions that divide the field into at least two broad areas: microevolution and macroevolution. Microevolution looks at changes within species over time--changes that may be preludes to speciation, the origin of new species. Macroevolution studies how taxonomic groups above the level of species change. Its evidence draws frequently from the fossil record and DNA comparisons to reconstruct how various organisms may be related.

These days even most creationists acknowledge that microevolution has been upheld by tests in the laboratory (as in studies of cells, plants and fruit flies) and in the field (as in Grant's studies of evolving beak shapes among Galápagos finches). Natural selection and other mechanisms--such as chromosomal changes, symbiosis and hybridization--can drive profound changes in populations over time.
12:21 PM on 09/25/2012
Obviously, you don't know much about "repeatable objective scientific method." Evolution is like foolish, ignorant people watching a movie, believing everything in it because they didn't also watch "how it was made." No one but God can prove the events. I'm sure that there are 1000's of mistakes in man's overall observation of evolution's proposed events. Shall we call on Dr. Leakey, the bone fragments strongly pushed on the entire world as a part of early man's skeleton, later found to be not as defined and asserted? Generally, people like Christians teach children, "Look before you leap. It could be a long way down." Leakey leaped to a conclusion, and the world suck up the lie.
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
12:55 PM on 09/25/2012
Sorry, Hon - copying lies from creationist websites doesn't make you science-literate.  In fact it makes you worse than merely ignorant.  It merely makes you deeply and irreversably confused.   
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
07:35 PM on 09/17/2012
CREATIONIST LIE #8 “Evolution is only a theory. It is not a fact or a scientific law.”

-------- Many people have the mistaken belief that a theory falls in the middle of a hierarchy of certainty--above a mere hypothesis but below a law. Scientists do not use the terms that way, however. According to the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), a scientific theory is "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses." No amount of validation changes a theory into a law, which is a descriptive generalization about nature. So when scientists talk about the theory of evolution--or the atomic theory or the theory of relativity, for that matter--they are not expressing reservations about its truth.
10:40 AM on 09/18/2012
What you are saying is accurate but misleading. It is true that most scientests have no reservations concerning the truthfulness of the theory. But by being a theory it means that it fundamentally has not been proven true by rules of logic. There is a difference between possibly true and known to be true.

Ultimately evolution can not prove to be true unless time travel is invented and repeated experimental samples can be cataloged to prove its true.

One myth about creationists is that they deny the existence or acceptance of evolution universally. Most creationists believe the evidence that there is convincing evidence that genetic mutations occur naturally and can lead to differing traits. While most of these mutations are cataloged as negative this is likely because we do root cause analysis on in negative circumstances. Positive mutations are most likely under sampled.

Rather than rejecting the existence of evolution most creationist reject it as the cause of life. This means that the theory itself is fundamentally sound but how far back it accurately accounts for the variation in life is limited.

Finally there are some creationists that fully hold evolution. They simply think that God caused evolution to occur and kick started the evolutionary process by intent.
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
11:05 AM on 09/18/2012
Your premise is utterly false.  By being a theory it means that it fundamentally has  been so valid and so reliable that it is now accepted as fact.  Gravity is a fact.  The theory of gravity explains generally how the force of gravity operates in the universe.  Evolution is a fact.  The theory of evolution explains broadly how evolution works on species populations and environments.   Of the two, by the way, gravity has more outstanding questions and is more hotly debated among scientists.

Also, the argument that without seeing historic real-time there is no way of being certain about its occurrence is false.  Most of what we know is indirectly observed.  We see the fossil evidence of life starting out simple and growing gradually more complex today. We have the DNA showing species being interrelated today.  We also observe evolution today, in fast-generation species.  Many applied science fields, such as agricultural evolution, use evolution routinely in developing new products.  Nobody has ever seen an electron.  Do you suggest electrons don't exist?  Do you?

If somebody wants to believe a god caused the cosmos to come into its present state and the foreknowledge that every molecule in every thermonuclear furnace would degrade to specific elements that in turn would ultimately be the basis of the emergence of life and life's subsequent evolution, fine by me.  That's not strictly 'creationism', however, which holds the Bible version of Genesis as an accurate, but an acceptance of the sciences of cosmology and evolution with an unscientific conjecture tacked on.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
CabinAgue
We are ALL in this together.
12:44 PM on 09/18/2012
I would have replied to this but Maezeppa said everything necessary already.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tribidemp
More powerful than god 1 and god 2 put together.
04:23 PM on 09/19/2012
I didn’t realize how full of win you were until I read your exchange with Lance-A-Lot. I knew you were good, but wow!
I’m glad you are on my side.
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
04:29 PM on 09/19/2012
Aw, that's very nice of you.   Thanks for the day-brightener!
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ivanivonovich
Some call it being alone, I call it solitude.
05:47 PM on 09/17/2012
Ever notice how the creationist believe that their deity thru some "mystical," magical method created everything in the universe...In the blink of the eye no less. But then go on and make a big fuss about someone using"magic"as being a form of demon or the devil themselves?
Evolution is all around you. Biological evolution takes tens of thousands of years, yes. But there are other forms thereof. Language, technology are two that some believe are not really part of evolution, But evolution means "to change," as in "to evolve." And we are doing this right now.
If mankind has not "evolved" in the past 6,000 years, then why are we not still living as they were 6,000 years ago ? In primitive huts, with out running water, heat, electricity, or phones ? Why do we have auto's, instead of using carts with horses or oxen ? This is evolution in the process. And yes we have changed. Our brains have become more complex, so too have the thought processes within.
12:43 PM on 09/25/2012
Unfortunately, evolution also gave humans the short end of the mutational changes - on many counts.

Humans are one of the most easily damaged creatures ever! Yet, where is our hard outer shell? Our populations been punctured massively by many many things on the planet, including other humans, for all of our existence - yet no protective shell, no eyes behind us, still only 2 arms and 2 legs, no wings. We get a brain, but no protective shell and not even one protective feature. Where are the practical new feature properties? Still one of the most vulnerable species ever! Still can't naturally breath under a tsunami. Can't even fly. Even the sun is against us. We run 26 MPH and tire easily. We swim even slower. Oh yeah, that's working real good. Hee Hee Hee. "Humans are at the top of the species, the most .... blah blah ...'

If that isn't enough. Sure we are inventive little critters. When we invent new things there are ALWAYS entities who over-tax us, stealing the gains afforded by inventions and innovation. Every time we invent a modern convenience, some one steals the gain. Where's my mutation for delivering a decisive blow to over-taxing, wasteful spending governments? When's that course correction going to happen? That would be a real practical thing for evolution science to estimate or promote with genetic methods.
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ivanivonovich
Some call it being alone, I call it solitude.
11:50 PM on 09/25/2012
Evolution gave humans the ability to think out side the box when it comes to many criteria. We don't need eyes in the back of our head, since we can turn our heads & body to see just as well. No protective shell since such is a hindrance to quick  motions. Wings would be just as useless. Why fly at such low speeds, and at our weight, would require them to be very large. And we are at the top of the food chain because we can eat both plant or animals as a food source.
As for our inventiveness, would you prefer to live in the ancient ways ? Like our long lost ancestors ? By all means then do so, me, I'll take our modern problems with the conveniences.
Governments can be changed. Don't like the taxes you have to pay ? It could be worse. Britain in the 1960's had tax rates for the super rich that ran up to 95%. (The "Beatles" "The Tax Man" talks about 19 for you and one for me).
Politicians have to lie to enough persons to get elected, or would you rather have them appointed ? If so, then by who ? But remember they are still politicians, beholden to those who put them into power.
12:43 PM on 09/25/2012
AND

And our modern vehicles and conveniences MAKE US FAT. Oh sure. Evolution, is just great. Any one out there feel a mutation coming on to counter these evolution-resultant properties? Many of our most brainy people, scientists, PhDs can't being themselves to calm down the worst diets, and are definitely fat.

Evolution gave us ways to prolong life, but, the over-taxers tax out retirement so that many of us have to be kicked out of homes. Where's then mutation for correcting that?

Where is the mutation for correcting those humans who cause poverty? It's one thing to have a drought and not have food, but, poverty resulting from stupid from smart people, that can be proven. But, no mutation to correct that.
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ivanivonovich
Some call it being alone, I call it solitude.
12:00 AM on 09/26/2012
Cars do not make one fat... We chose to drive to the corner to by that pack of cigarettes and the big gulp drink. You want to lose weight ? Do so, but don't worry about your neighbor who can't or won't. You are the one who benefits from the weight loss. Evaluational mutations take thousands of years to make themselves known. Language or Technology Evolution show up far faster.
Greed is something you can change, so do what you can for those less fortunate. But do not blame others for their desire to live an easier life when they can. Many have striven for it, but Utopia, will probably never be achieved. There will alway be some poor persons.