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12:18 AM on 04/25/2009
Both parties are guilty. While some certainly carry more burden than others, calling the Democrats involved 'hostages' is a joke. That's like calling the getaway driver an 'innocent bystander'.
12:25 AM on 04/25/2009
Doesn't matter who KNEW about it, all that matters is who APPROVED it, ORDERED it and CARRIED it out. And that is on the repubs. With great power comes great responsibility. The Dems had no say in anything in the early 2000's.
01:43 AM on 04/25/2009
Negative. They are all under oath, and have a laundry list of responsibilites/duties which come with the job. Exposing/reporting criminal behavior, especially within the government is certainly one of those many duties. Keeping quiet and playing dumb with regards to international crimes brings to mind phrases like 'conspiracy to conceal a crime', and 'obstruction of justice'.
All your post indicates is an extreme level of bias towards a single party.
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jcole
12:13 AM on 04/25/2009
Their is know doubt that the democrat's are involved, Reid and Pelosi refused to put impeachment on the table because they were involved, Bush played them like a brand new three dollar bill, Mr Bush and the evil ( DOER'S) I guest doer's is the right spelling, I don't believe that president Bush new what the hell Cheney and Rumsfled was doing, i think he was just the puppet, he said and did what they told him to do.
12:27 AM on 04/25/2009
Again, Dems had no say in anything at the time these things were carried out. I agree that the Dems prob. knew about the torture, but the people in trouble will be the people who were in power...the people who APPROVED it, ORDERED it and CARRIED it out. And none of them were Dems...sorry.
07:50 AM on 04/25/2009
I guess Bush wasnt as dumb as all the huff bloggers thought..... he outsmarted Reed and Pelosi, and Hillary...Kerry too.
11:11 PM on 04/24/2009
As I remember they voted not specifically for a war - but to allow for force in the event that other methods did not work, Additionally I believe they were never given all of the information with which to make an informed choice.

As for prosecutions - if we don't do it someone else will.
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10:29 PM on 04/24/2009
" I mean, was their support of the invasion of Iraq due to their own true conviction for pre-emptive war? I doubt it. Or was their vote cast because it was politically expedient? Seems more likely. Or maybe because they were just plain-old scared?"

You're quite right about DEMS covering for REPUBS to conceal their own willful complicity.

But when you listed some of the various motives you might have included the most obvious one.
Their corporate donors told them to and they did what they were bought and paid to do. Make rules and laws and even wars that would profit their installers.
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Yermammy
Yer enemies know what yer friends can't believe
10:54 PM on 04/24/2009
That's a very salient point. And the most important factor. Corporations lobby and have abused the fact that every man has that right, but doesn't. Corporate lobbying should be outlawed.
05:29 AM on 04/25/2009
Did you ever hear of the Carlyle group. Not many have. The members are the B ush family, and O B L family. They make money by wa r. They invest in parts needed for wa r. The O B L 's and B ush's made billions on the wa r!
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jcole
12:26 AM on 04/25/2009
Senator Byrd have been in the senate from the time that is was a senate and he told them to pull back the covers, but the dem. was so afriad of been called unpatriotica which Bush had all ready called them, they were worried about getting re-elected, this is what our country have come to, fear is what the republican do and do well.
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Yermammy
Yer enemies know what yer friends can't believe
10:25 PM on 04/24/2009
Indeed, Ms. Breitweiser. The time for absolution is NOW. The complicit DINO's err.. I mean Democrats should admit their collusion in exchange for immunity and blow the whistle on all that are guilty of War Crimes, Illegal wiretapping and Crimes against Humanity. Perhaps the younger members of Congress will learn a valuable lesson that the rule of law applies to every person in these United States and not just the average citizen. Justice for ALL. Eric Holder needs to hear our discontent and DEMAND an investigation. A friend of mine was at a meeting the other day with Holder in attendance and he shouted at Eric to uphold the rule of law and Mr. Holder replied "you're going to be proud of your country". I hope that means what it sounds like it means.
11:00 PM on 04/24/2009
Like the wire tapping still going on 100 days into our new administration.

Or S. 773 to give over the internet control to the President in an executive order not yet listed. Another Czar under S. 778.

Different party, same interest in taking our freedom away. I don't want the internet controlled by Washington. Read the bill on Thomas -Section 18 at 2 & 6. More tax options, too?

Vote for all new politicians in 2010 and 2012. Someone that wants to clean up Washington for the "People" not make more dollars & power for themselves.

Try to fight the brain washing from both sides.
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Helzapoppin
10:35 AM on 04/26/2009
second!
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Yermammy
Yer enemies know what yer friends can't believe
12:01 PM on 04/26/2009
Totally agree.
09:42 PM on 04/24/2009
There is truth in your words, Ms. Breitweiser; and while the story is ugly, the truth that comes through is beautiful.

That ugly yet beautiful truth? Political parties in the United States are beholden to gaining and holding on to power while exacting a minimum of collateral damage from their actions and/or inactions. Ugly in deed, beautiful in that in seeing and waking up to reality rather than continuing to delude ourselves, we can begin to enact change.

What I read is a wake-up call to those of us in the United States, that we will never change the system from within, and that our two-party system must be toppled if we ever wish to have true justice.

Why we elect representatives who run and rule by party over principle is beyond me.
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mountainweb
Conservative Commonsense
09:26 PM on 04/24/2009
Face it, the past democratic administration and their minions were permitted to wipe the slate clean of their past criminal acts, and now the party is desperate to paint the other party as being guilty of criminal acts. Time to get over it and focus on the REAL issues facing this nation. Trying to split the country along political lines is a major mistake and will come back to bite the party.
09:10 PM on 04/24/2009
Republicans are not book smart, as evidenced by their stances on global warming, human rights, and various other issues. They rely solely on their ideology for knowledge, which is of course, a bad thing. What they get, as a result, is a distorted view of reality since most of their beliefs do not conform with actual fact. But they are masters of manipulation and human behavior. They would not have been able to amass their party elite and party mass base in one contiguous ideological stream if they were not such masters. Republicans seem to have an innate ability to tug at the mind and the hearts of conservatives.

And that's what makes them dangerous and eerily cunning.
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10:56 PM on 04/24/2009
Prove it.
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jcole
12:58 AM on 04/25/2009
OVER 4000 OF OUR YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES ON A REPUBLICAN LIE, BUT WE WANT TO SWEEP THE WAR CRIMES UNDER THE RUG, two young soldier's went to jail for Rumsfled and Cheney, is their know end to what the republican will do, i am sad that this country have stooped to this.
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09:00 PM on 04/24/2009
Actually a majority of democrates in congress voted against the invasion of Iraq. Its true that a majority of democrates in the senate voted to invade Iraq 29 yea to 21 nay but in the house 82 voted yea and 126 nay, so I'll do the math 29+82=111 yea -- 21+126=147 nay so a majority of democrates voted against authorizing Bush to invade Iraq.

I agree that Bush informed the democrates with enough information to try and make them complisit in his crimes but not enough to do anything about it. Stop funding the troops was not a option.
07:45 PM on 04/24/2009
Sure. Let's all take some blame for ... er .....what exactly?
I know what I'll take the blame for. Not screaming enough back at how our cherished national corporate media created an atmosphere of "unpatriotic' left wing lunacy for years if you didn't wave a flag or wear one on your chest. They also allowed the "bushies" like Ashcroft, Ari Fleischer, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice, Tom Ridge with his faux security alerts, and all the fools who took part in bullying into submission anyone who questioned Cheney(starting with Joe Wilson?) or anything remotely questioning about how "We're #1" foamfinger America yahoos rallied with bloodthirst their need to practically "nuke" the Middle East.

Lets watch the media cower and beat down Democrats, the Justice Department, and anybody else who dares ask for an investigation into the evidence that Dick Cheney ordered torture to coerce a link from "high profile detainees" that 9/11 is linked to Iraq-Saddam is linked to "a mushroom cloud, WMDs, and Osama bin Laden.
People! The core problem with our country is the media. With few exceptions they are already trying to scare everyone 24/7 into not investigating because the media is as guilty of fraud and deception as any politician because they are owned by corporate America.
These Bush/Cheney thugs are criminals. Nobody could stop them and if anyone tried they were loons.
The same complicit media wants to still cover up for themselves over and over. It's insanity.
08:54 PM on 04/24/2009
Well put.
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Articulator
09:08 PM on 04/24/2009
Yes. During the whole 8 years of George, anytime some one questioned the administrations actions they were viciously attacked by the right wing taking heads. Painted as being unpatriotic, hated America, should leave America, all sorts of attempts at direct character assassination. The admin insiders who left got especially harsh treatment and their stories completely ignored in the media. In affect, the right wing taking heads where providing cover for and were therefore enablers of the Bush administration allowing the admin to act with impunity by creating a political climate where it was very difficult to voice decent. Phil Donohue's show gets canceled, as the leaked internal memo says, because cant have his show on when everyone else was waving the flag. Rush et. al. are as equally guilty as the Bush admin in the sins of the Bush admin. The same blood is on their hands whether they recognize that or not.
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jcole
01:14 AM on 04/25/2009
blood is on all of our hands, we were not involved in what our government was doing on our behalf, we did not ask enough questions, this is the time for us to take our government back and get involved, we have two soldiers who have gone to jail for following orders, and i don't hear the outrage about that.
07:37 PM on 04/24/2009
There is no difference between the Democratic party and the Republican party.

They both worship at the alter of money and serve the same masters.
09:37 PM on 04/24/2009
here, here - you are spot on.
12:17 AM on 04/25/2009
I totally agree. That IS the driving force of what ALL of them do...with one exception. At LEAST the Dems are with the working class on social issues. If we get health care, workers bill of rights, and tax loophole changes (so the rich have to start paying their fair share...and can't ship it overseas) then I will be happy.
07:33 PM on 04/24/2009
We ALL have to "own" this national horror, but there are gradations of responsibility. My guess is that the finger points straight to Dick Cheney, because he's the one who's going all Richard Nixon on us: "I am NOT a torturer!"
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jcole
01:31 AM on 04/25/2009
Cheney dodge the military but quick to send your child and mine to fight a war that he have been pushing for- for years, now Cheney is praying that we get hit again so he can say that torture works, and that our president is weak, another reason for speaking out and telling the world what we did is to put president Bush under fire for not pardon Libby for taking the fall for him,
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CherokeeGirl
one pissed off Indian.
07:32 PM on 04/24/2009
not so fast...I couldn't get past the first sentance.

I know of nothing to indicate that people who committed crimes will get away with it.

That sounds like a Republican talking point, you know, when they say it they hope it will BECOME true?

please don't do that...there's nothing to indicate it is true.
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tmaxPA
You don't want to hear it.
08:43 PM on 04/24/2009
This entire article is sort of a Poe of Concern Trolling.

And, once again, apparently the fault lies with the Democrats for not stopping the Republicans, rather than the Republicans. What Utter Crap.
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jcole
01:38 AM on 04/25/2009
The fault lies with all of us, when the president started talking about going to war with Iraq we did not ask any questions, and the news media feed us what the president feed to them with know questions asked, all of us had a hand in this mess.
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ProgressiveVoice
07:12 PM on 04/24/2009
We made a difference and got Obama elected. We need to remind him why we voted for him and demand he honor his promises. We need to remind all of DC that it is our country, our Constitution, our government! We are tired of our government working for corporations and the wealthiest of us, against the common good. We need to organize rallies that will make the FNC Teabagging look like a school field trip. Rallies in every city and town across the country. We need to do this this coming 4th of July, to once again proclaim our independence. Only this time, we will be freeing ourselves from the policies of the last 30 or so years. Policies that left our wages stagnant, sent our jobs overseas, left our country's infrastructure falling apart and the social safety net ripped to near shreds.

My apologies for the long, multiple post posting. Somethings just can't be adequately said in only 250 words.
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ProgressiveVoice
07:11 PM on 04/24/2009
It reminds me of living in Arizona in the mid- or late-70's when Dennis DeConcini was in Congress representing southern Arizona. Some legislation related to abortion came up and despite a majority of his constituents being pro-choice, as a Catholic, he "voted my conscience". In other words, against the bill. I never got answers to my questions then, either. If he represents me, shouldn't he be voting MY conscience? What if it had been something else, and his "belief" was in something 99% of his constituents abhorred?

I don't know how or if there is a connection but it seems like the faster polling data can be collected analyzed and reported, the more incompetent and the more vulnerable to lobbyists our politicians have become. Any issues that are at all complicated or politically risky are "sent to the voters" to decide, at state level where it CAN be done anyway. They are the ones with staff! They are the ones whose job it is to study and consider the effects of all options, have experts appear to answer questions.
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jcole
02:00 AM on 04/25/2009
Republican confuse me, they want the government to stay out of the people's lives but they want to tell people what they can or can not do, butr i agree with you, if the majority of the people in your district want you to vote one way that is what you are suppose to do, now by you been a Catholic should not have anything to do with laws of government, seperation of church and state, what you believe may not be what i believe, only God can judge the morailty of man