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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
douttfire
Up With This, I Will Not Put!
07:49 PM on 10/22/2012
Oh, for crying out loud...are we s=back on that again? It was a HOAX! Move on!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chrisd3
Excelsior!
10:35 PM on 10/22/2012
A hundred thousand peer-reviewed research papers is a hoax? The overwhelming majority of the worlds scientists are, for some unfathomable reason, intent on tricking you? Literally every national science academy on Earth is lying to you? Physics that we've known since before the Civil War is wrong?

I just do not understand how you people think this is rational.
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rabidrightwatch
Concerned environmentalist: don't frack the UK
05:28 AM on 10/23/2012
Ah Chris, you've used the word 'think' in your last sentence... that's probably the problem as it appears there is no detectable thinking going on...
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Chipher
prosaic quotidian
07:05 AM on 10/23/2012
Show me the current data, that is, current verifiable by independent review data that reducing carbon dioxide will reduce what you claim is global warming. YOU CAN'T.
You can't even correctly represent the work of Arrhenius who was just an old chemist.
Therefore your claim that stealing tithe-taxes from Americans and starving the poor
and elderly of energy and food will 'Save the Planet' is simply GHOST DANCING!!!
Start an organized church in another land. That's what Pilgrims do. That's all they do.
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07:43 PM on 10/22/2012
It was probably easier for politicians to talk about global warming a couple of decades ago when the catastrophic predictions seemed less likely and very far away in the future. Now, there is no getting away from the fact that bad things predicted for the far future are already happening and the climate is much more sensitive to global warming than the scientists had predicted not very many years ago. Politicians like to paint an optimistic future. That is just about impossible if you really look at what the scientists are saying. Even if we somehow were get our financial house in order the future does not look very bright because of the laws of chemistry and physics. We should expect politicians running for office to keep dancing around the issue.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
WESmith
Energy Conservation can save you M-O-N-E-Y!!!!!!!!
11:00 PM on 10/22/2012
Decades ago, it was Exxon telling us about the rising global temperatures. Exxon told us the solution was energy efficiency, energy conservation and technology. We called them liars, trying to raise the cost of gasoline. Since then, Exxon sold all of their gas stations, sold as many fuel refineries as the government allowed and "Plugged and Abandoned" 90% of the oil wells they were operating in the US. ExxonMobil, along with the 5 other Majors, have complied with the Kyoto Protocol and reduced their carbon footprints. Think they are serious? Think they are deniers? ExxonMobil thought to replace coal with natural gas. Too expensive. Now ExxonMobil is happily selling natural gas to China and making a big profit. Now ExxonMobil is producing 130 gigawatts of electricity from previously wasted energy. ExxonMobil is producing parts for electric car batteries. Dr Mann, of Climate Change fame, stated in Science News Magazine that politicians were taking over Climate Change "science" writing their own scenario in an effort to benefit their agenda. Politicians are saying what they always say; whatever will get them votes.
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08:50 AM on 10/23/2012
It was ExxonMobil that carried out a disinformation campaign about global warming in the 1990s. No entity is more to blame for all the misinformation that people believe about global warming than ExxonMobil.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
docsong
Sitting here in Limbo
07:17 PM on 10/22/2012
the 3 things that will effect my grandchildren
1. gov. out out control with debt and war
2. climate change
3.global population
in 1912, 100 years ago the population of the planet was 1.6 billion, today it is 7 billion and during that 100 years we had 2 world wars and several other major declines in population, the world cannot feed 10 or 12-15 billion people.
climate change can alter growing seasons, and disrupt food supplys

unstable gov.'s will go to war over food
12:32 AM on 10/23/2012
No worries, the nilderbergs have the population thing covered, they just need an elitist in the White House who understands that money rules the world, hmmmmm beware unless eaters... ;)
06:59 PM on 10/22/2012
if you are a true environmentalist, go veg.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chrisd3
Excelsior!
10:36 PM on 10/22/2012
Nothing against vegetarians or vegetarianism, but climate science has little to do with environmentalism.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Chipher
prosaic quotidian
07:10 AM on 10/23/2012
"It's not about the Science. The Science doesn't matter. It's about (control of) public policy."
The IPCC Charter in their own words. The Hatch Act forbids Federally funded scientists from engaging in political activity. The Warmists you are seeing post are POLICY WONKS. LiveScience and ClimateCentral are 501(c)3 tax dodge propaganda aggregators. It's a con!
05:58 PM on 10/23/2012
how is climate science unrelated to the environment? industrialized farming of land animals is one of the top contributors of climate change and environmental destruction, and we cannot afford to ignore that.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
WESmith
Energy Conservation can save you M-O-N-E-Y!!!!!!!!
11:05 PM on 10/22/2012
What is the difference between carbohydrates and hydrocarbons? Both are large-chained carbon molcules with hydrogens attached. Both are "burned" in the presence of oxygen to produce energy by breaking bonds and exhausting CO2 and H2O.
CO2 is nature's dead batteries, waiting to be recharged. We are destroying 100 acres a minute of CO2-absorbing forests to produce Biofuel. The ethanol is distilled by burning the stalks.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Chipher
prosaic quotidian
07:14 AM on 10/23/2012
Google 'Willie Smits Restores a Rain Forest' the real 'inconvenient truth' that the Warmists have spawned the Renewable Biofuels con, resulting in global deforestation of 10,000s of square miles of tropical oldgrowth rainforest for BigAgra GMO monocrop biofuel plantations. 'Carbon volcanoes', as Willie Smits describes the wasteland left by the Warmists policies.

"Ooohh, we did not know." they hold their scented handkerchief to their blue vein cheek.
06:55 PM on 10/22/2012
Best comment I've heard about this lately is the one by Chris Hayes, cuz it so effectively connects a past example of corporate lying/obfuscation with what is going on now:

"Discussing energy without talking about climate is like talking about tobacco without talking about cancer."
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
WESmith
Energy Conservation can save you M-O-N-E-Y!!!!!!!!
11:11 PM on 10/22/2012
Both the Democrats and Republicans are and have been discussing energy for decades and not doing anything. One hold back is that We The People own the vast majority of coal, oil, natural gas, etc in the US. We The People make 13 times more money than the Oil Corporations in the petroleum business. What would we do losing a trillion dollar a year revenue source? What would we do if the cost of crude goes over $120 a BBL? The worth of the US Dollar is inversely proportional to the cost of crude oil. So, we just produce more oil to keep the price down. The problem is that the cheaper the products, the more we purchase and the more we waste.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Chipher
prosaic quotidian
07:18 AM on 10/23/2012
Like Obama's bailout of the 6L+ Camaro, Mustang and Challenger remakes.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
neillevine
want to go into waterwheel business
06:15 PM on 10/22/2012
Apparently, common sense wnd honesty have less to do with getting something done than impressing people.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
alteredstory
Hold on to the center
09:25 PM on 10/22/2012
I would be impressed if either of them took leadership on climate change.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
WESmith
Energy Conservation can save you M-O-N-E-Y!!!!!!!!
11:13 PM on 10/22/2012
I have only seen one article about what we are going to do when the oceans rise due to climate change. We can't fix climate change. We screwed the pooch decades ago with our greedy, wasteful lifestyles. Lifestyles, we are not about to give up.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
neillevine
want to go into waterwheel business
12:39 PM on 10/23/2012
Let me say I have a horse in this race. But if politicians chose to really do something, debating climate change becomes moot.
06:13 PM on 10/22/2012
I read a very interesting perspective recently. This historian was talking about cases of what amounts to mass amnesia with regard to certain situations.
I think this is one of them.
Politicians and the mass public cannot, will not address climate change because it appears to big, too daunting, and actually to address it would force them to admit complicity. Rationalization is emotionally easier, I guess.
07:02 PM on 10/22/2012
This sounds exactly right. I'd be interested in reading the item you mention. Could you give a reference?
07:50 PM on 10/22/2012
I'm sorry I don't remember precisely...but it was either in Orion magazine (would have been in one of the last, say, four issues), or it was in the book 1492, (again, sorry, I can't recall the author).
07:43 PM on 10/22/2012
Sounds exactly right. Could you please provide a reference to the historian?
07:59 AM on 10/24/2012
I'm confident now it's Charles C. Mann. The book is "1491" published in 2006.
He gives amazing insight regarding the Americas pre- and post European take over. .I think I have gleaned some of my own conclusions....and I'm also confident I'm not the only one. He really helps to see in a way that makes total sense.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Elliott Negin
UCS Director of News & Commentary
06:04 PM on 10/22/2012
Florida is already struggling with sea level rise from global warming. More than 120 Florida public officials, scientists and economists sent a letter earlier this month to President Obama and Gov. Romney urging them to address climate change at campaign stops in the state and during tonight's debate in Boca Raton. For more on this issue, see my blog from Friday, "Will Obama and Romney Address Climate Change in Florida Debate?" at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elliott-negin/third-debate-climate-change_b_1982523.html.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ClimateHawk
Think before posting.
07:48 PM on 10/22/2012
Miami Beach is already experiencing tidal flooding:

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/10/17/rising-water-cause-flood-of-trouble-on-miami-beach/
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Just A Guy222
Its time to Reforest America!
05:54 PM on 10/22/2012
I bet they wont even mention global warming/ climate change.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
alteredstory
Hold on to the center
09:26 PM on 10/22/2012
f&f for your comment and your microbio
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05:53 PM on 10/22/2012
we die for their greed that's not happening if it's us against the robber barrons i know who is going to lose the throne

back to the gym

so lots of people not breathing in fresh air it's mostly recycled yes it's cooled but not fresh air and they give off heat so the room heats up and in the stale air bacteria breeds

now look at the world as a gym you can open the windows to solve the gym

not as easy as the atmosphere

anybody have ideas on purifying the air globally not an office building

there should be something in nature already

where are the scientists shouting about how bad the situation is because it really is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Linus521
In wildness is the salvation of mankind
09:09 PM on 10/22/2012
What naturally purifies the air and water and naturally supports all life on the Earth and may be the unknown elephant in the climate crisis? The natural and wild surface of the planet or ecosystems and their plant and animal biodiversity not only represent our natural resources, they generate all of humankind's "life-supporting services", systems and cycles. Each day, more and more ecosystems are skinned for agriculture, sprawl, parking lots and cities.

Ecosystems and their trees and plants purify the air and water naturally while releasing oxygen and sequestering those greenhouse gases in the soil and in the plants/trees for Earth and provide the climate cooling water cycle. Each tree stores many pounds of these gases, which will be re-released when the tree is chopped. Science has many examples of the climate heating up and drying out upon ecosystem death and destruction. Ecosystems also maintain the gaseous composition of the atmosphere, and "climate regulation and moderation" are listed as a life-supporting service as well as many life giving and supporting services.

Another problem is, science still does not fully understand all the services ecosystems provide for all life and the Earth.
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05:53 PM on 10/22/2012
lets think about this scenario i always mention going the way of the dinosaurs

maybe they are our greatest lesson

well maybe we are going that way

,just because an asteroid didn't hit what killed the dinosaurs was what was put into the atmosphere t not the asteroid = there was to little sun no fresh air either

are we choosing how we die a certain way well i say the reapers gonna have to wait because i'm hoping the science and i mean everyone from history to psychology to math to biology to astro physicists will intervene and show the world the truth

if we continue using fossil fuels where do you think that stuff goes it does not disappear we breath it in
so that will accumulate until the light diffraction is so off we will die

a vote for continued fossil fuels and coal like Romney is vote to kill ourselves in a gas chamber type atmosphere
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BluePhantom2
The Blacksmith & the Artist reflected in their art
05:15 PM on 10/22/2012
I dought it as this debate is about foreign policy not religion!
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ogis
powerdown baby powerdown
07:11 PM on 10/22/2012
Irony ?!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chrisd3
Excelsior!
07:13 PM on 10/22/2012
A hundred thousand peer-reviewed physics papers is not religion.

Thanks for the ridiculous talking point, though.
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BDAD
realistic idealist
05:10 PM on 10/22/2012
I think the problem with the issue is that MOST people view it as something we can't do anything about anyway. Regardless if you think humans contribute/create the problem or if you think it is a natural phenomena or if you think it does not exist at all.

Personally I think it is most definitely caused by humans and is (at this point) able to be dealt with but that clock is ticking faster and faster. Soon, VERY soon it will likely be too late to affect the warming of the planet.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Gas-Bag
If it was easy they'd call it shopping...
06:59 PM on 10/22/2012
The 'we can't do anything about it' talking point is a very clever one, it creates apathy. Created and spoon fed to the public by the good old boys from the Heartland Institute. Oh yes, have a smoke too while your thinking how it's out of our control, they're good for you.
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rabidrightwatch
Concerned environmentalist: don't frack the UK
05:41 AM on 10/23/2012
...so I take it, from the gist of your comment, that you are doing something personally to mitigate the problem..??

..or are you among those whose maxim is - what can an individual do; what difference does my contribution make?

It's time we all contributed personally and individually to mitigate the effects of climate change - using less energy, driving less, flying as little as possible, driving a fuel efficient vehicle, installing solar pv and solar thermal... the list goes on and on ... for individuals to make that choice..

...after all, we only live for a very short time, and the world we create today is inherited by our children... no point in nurturing them, protecting them and raising them to respect each other, if we merely leave them a dystopia in which to live...

It's up to all of us... this is not a government problem alone; this is a personal choice for us all.
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BDAD
realistic idealist
01:01 PM on 10/23/2012
I am doing what little I can. I replaced my old furnace and ac unit for my home (probably installed in the 70's originally) with a high efficiency unit in 2010. I live in an older home (built 1952) and it has the original windows. That is next on the list but it all takes $. I have added additional insulation in my attic and replaced my doors and storm doors. ALL my appliances are energy star rated although that technology continues to get better and I am sure they are not as efficient as they could be. We went from 2 cars to 1 car. I have a work vehicle that I use separately. I would like to get my hands on some solar but again the up front $ is difficult to come by. I am a trustee at my church and I have been pushing to upgrade our systems to a more efficient system but that is slow going as I don't make the decisions by myself. I recycle. I try and stay informed.

Best wishes rabidrightwatch. I believe I shall fan you now.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tmaxPA
You don't want to hear it.
05:08 PM on 10/22/2012
"Climate-minded voters" are a self-marginalizing group.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ClimateHawk
Think before posting.
06:04 PM on 10/22/2012
Who is affected by the climate?

Everyone.

That's hardly a marginal group.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tmaxPA
You don't want to hear it.
04:28 PM on 10/23/2012
Who is screechy about the climate? Self-marginalizing voters. See how that works out? Everyone IS concerned about the environment, President Obama more than most. He's done everything he can (much of which you appear to be reluctant to give him credit for) AND raised awareness of the issue, globally. And all you can do is whine that he hasn't done as much as you'd like. You not only consider yourself authoritative in terms of how much should be done, you accuse him of being dishonest.There's nothing marginal about climate concerns. Those who consider it their primary issue in voting? They're a self-marginalizing group.
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rabidrightwatch
Concerned environmentalist: don't frack the UK
05:45 AM on 10/23/2012
'climate minded voters' - now that's an interesting phrase...

We are ALL effected by climate, whether you believe it or not, so the entire population of the planet can hardly be described as 'a self-marginalising group'... now can it..??

Or do you, as I suspect, live within your own self-sustaining protection bubble..?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tmaxPA
You don't want to hear it.
04:32 PM on 10/23/2012
 It was an interesting phrase, I agree. What do you suppose "ClimateHawk" meant when he used it? It seems pretty obvious (to me at least) that it, along with the username, was meant to indicate a certain smug superiority in their concern over other peoples' concern related to the environment. We are all effected by climate. But only some of us (notably, and not coincidentally, the comfortable) are screechy about it. Will you continue to misrepresent and/or misunderstand what I am saying, and thus join that self-marginalizing group? I sure hope not.
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BDAD
realistic idealist
05:07 PM on 10/22/2012
They have managed to ignore it so far. I hope they get into it though.
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alteredstory
Hold on to the center
09:37 PM on 10/22/2012
Obama just ignored it while talking about energy...