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dennissinned
Progressive but not a Democrat.
01:00 AM on 05/16/2009
They're called single issue voters. Pro--life for un(born) but not when it comes to war.
09:17 AM on 05/16/2009
Good point. Here is another. Given the downright hate I have seen, the question came to my mind: what exactly is the difference between Muslim fanatics and catholics?
10:07 AM on 05/16/2009
As recent polls have demonstrated, the southern states share the same level of fundamentalist religious activity as Iran and other Islamic fundamentalist countries. Dessinsinned, please read the post above. The catechism apparently is not against war or the death penalty. Now you have proof of your assertion.
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RobertHenryEller
a micro-bio hp can handle
10:33 AM on 05/16/2009
There is a very wide gulf between "pro-life" and pro-birth, which is what many so-called pro-lifers really are.

If you voted for a president who executed people for capital offenses, who lied, who is responsible for the death of thousands of Americans, the maiming of even more thousands, the death of over a million non-American civilians, born and un-born, who promoted theft. If you do not condemn and dissociate yourselved from those so-called Christians who cultivate tobacco and manufacture distribute and sell it, you are complicit in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans every year, as well as the deaths of millions worldwide.

Your stance has nothing to do with life.

And the God and Son of God you purport to worship would have nothing to do with you, and would know you for the abomination you are, the perverters of His teachings.

Even God and the Son of God clearly believe in the sanctity of death, which you spend over one trillion dollars on every year to wage a vainglorious and futile war against, when you could instead actually direct that money to the real promotion of life.

You are phony Christians. And if there is indeed a Heaven, you will answer for it.
05:32 AM on 05/17/2009
Well said.
10:47 PM on 05/15/2009
Perhaps you missed the Rasmussen poll - one of the most accurate. It says 60% of Catholics disapprove and 52% of all Americans disapprove.
No one objects to a speech but rather to conferring the honor of a degree to President Obama, who by admission and by action is strongly pro-abortion. That position is in direct conflict with Catholic moral teaching.
There was a leader once who returned 6 million unemployed to work, who instituted successful public projects like highways, who improved the infrastructure necessary for modern economic expansion and who offered national health care. Unfortunately, he also killed people he considered "not really human." People like Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies, and Catholics. The Catholic Church has been castigated for not sufficiently opposing the immorality of Hitler's death camps. But wait - don't good causes outweigh the bad? Of course not.
To argue that we should not discuss "policies that respect the right of women and their families to make decisions about the issues that affect their lives," is ridiculous. If women and their families decide that tying up children in the basement so they can be sexually abused is their "personal decision," do we ignore it? If a cult abuses children, do we look away? Science cannot prove that a fetus is anything but a human child and the survival of younger and younger pre-term babies blurs the line between non-viable fetus and real live baby. Society needs to address the protection of these lives.
12:08 AM on 05/16/2009
President Obama is NOT pro-abortion. He is pro-choice.

The bottom line in Catholic moral teaching is "follow your conscience." Sometimes your conscience tells you to abort such as in the case of anencephalic baby which could burst your uterus, so that your uterus may survive and have another baby in the future.

I am pro-choice because I am pro-life. I know that if you make abortions illegal - women will die. Those who think otherwise are just in denial or don't care if those women die. I do care if those women die.
03:17 AM on 05/16/2009
An anencephalic baby poses no risk to mother's life and I have never heard of an occurrence which has resulted in the sterility of the mother. Folic acid seems to reduce the likelihood of such instances.

With proper prenatal care the complications that may arise from a pregnancy are greatly reduced. Providing abortion services is so high on the administration's check list that the American taxpayer is borrowing money from other countries in order to fund abortions to foreign countries. Perhaps that money would be better spent in improving the social and economic environment here in our own back yard... perhaps health care or more specifically prenatal care would benefit from those additional funds.
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RobertHenryEller
a micro-bio hp can handle
11:06 AM on 05/16/2009
Part 1.

Correct. President Obama is not pro-abortion. He is not inconsistent with the ways responsibilities for decisions are apportioned in our country between those which are determined by federal laws, those which are determined by state laws, those which are determined by local laws, those which are left to families, and those which are reserved for individuals.

In the end, all laws are decided by one or more human beings. Therefore, none of our laws are created or carried out except by fallible beings, ourselves.

We, as citizens of a democracy, are complicit every day in life or death decisions made by people, not God: To execute criminals or not, to send our armed forced into combat or not, to kill others outside our country or not, to allow people to smoke tobacco or not, to allow people to drive while intoxicated or not, whether to eat to obesity or not. All of these acts, deliberate or otherwise, result in a very large numbers of deaths that result directly from our decisions.

In other words, we all reserve for ourselves the right to choose who lives and who dies.

Not one person in our country is in the moral position to judge anyone else on this issue.
03:04 AM on 05/16/2009
in the earyly 70"s we protested in calif because Reagan was signing the most liberal abortion bill in the usa, before Roe V Wade.
I stopped voting one issue as soon as Reagan ran for president .The religious right backed Reagan and the Bushes. I can't figure that out. None ot these men cared about the lives of the unborn or born. They were all about greed and power. How many people did gwbush have killed in Iraq? How many innocent mothers and children? How can anyone torture and have it sanctioned by the religous right in this country? All in the name of OIL.
We have a good decent man in the white house. I am sure God is looking down and smiling at him and our country. The gesture of an hononary degree from the great university, Notre Dame, to our president is a wonderful tribute. The majority of Catholics understand and approve ot this. Jesus would be proud.
This is a wedge issue and if you look at the crowd protesting at the school, it will be the right wing born again christians who have a political bent. They just don't like Obama. They listen to faux news and parrot those thoughts and memorize the spin.
08:36 AM on 05/16/2009
Voting one issue is probably the wrong way to go, however if you must, the issue of life itself seems a worthy one. That's a bigger issue than taxes, a bigger issue than gun rights, bigger than prayer in schools.

But suppose you decide you don't want to be a single issue voter on the issue of abortion even though you vehemently oppose it. Now is the time for you to speak up. The election is over and abortion is in the news. Don't shy away from expressing yourself.
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JudgeMoonbox
08:52 PM on 05/15/2009
I can't comment that much on those who believe in the "Sanctity of Life;" to me it's a standard I cannot hope to achieve. Still, since they're telling others how to live, that gives us to ask if they believe in the sanctity of the word, sanctity.

I cannot see how they can justify the death penalty; but given the fact of their acceptance, I insist that they'd want it carried out conscientiously. As governor, Bush had been cavalier in his duties. There are several condemned people who really deserved a pardon or commutation, including one whose lawyer slept through the trial. When the Texas legislature sent a bill to his desk reforming the way defense attorneys are selected, he vetoed it. Truly, he is a serial executioner.

You cannot be for the "Sanctity of Life" only on issues that cut the Republicans' way.
03:34 AM on 05/16/2009
I find it amusing that every time someone opposes a liberal stand point it automatically makes them a Republican.. and I find it offensive. Not that I have anything against Republicans... don't identify me with liberals either. Being Catholic doesn't give you membership to a political group.

Many Catholic put politics before the faith as do many other persons of differing religions. The position of the Catholic Church has not changed concerning the need to respect life at every stage of its existence. A person's politics can change but the church has a responsibility to uphold the faith no matter the populist opposition to its position.
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RobZantay
07:07 PM on 05/15/2009
I don't understand why noone ever look at what the bible says about when life starts. In Genesis CH2 verse7 it say "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul" Man was not a living soul when he was formed, he became a living soul when he took his first breath. That is the only place in the Bile where it says when we become living souls. The fetus has no soul, it does not breath, also it shares its' blood supply with the mother and in Leviticus we are told that the life (the soul life) is in the blood. The bible says what it means and means what it says. The religious right has fooled the Christian community into a sin that is much worse than the non- sin of abortion. they have caused them to Interpret the Word of God, which in second Peter we are told is not the way to read the bible. They are adding to the Word of God, if they read the end of Revelations they will find out what happens to people who make that mistake. (It's not too cool) Evangelicals, stop listening to the Pope and start believing the Word of God!
10:25 PM on 05/15/2009
I, for one, have needed to hear these words for 33 years. Thank you from the bottom of my ever-grateful heart.

May all your days be blessed with happiness beyond belief for your kindness in posting this piece.
12:01 PM on 05/17/2009
Godlessness in the Last Days
1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.

6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.
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Pupadup4oBama
11:24 AM on 05/16/2009
The so-called Christians of today have no concept of the lessons the old and new testament are trying to teach.
Thank you for your comment!
12:04 PM on 05/17/2009
1In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge:
2Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.
3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
5But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry.
watch out sheeple that you are not led astray!
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One more Thing
06:16 PM on 05/15/2009
How is Notre Dame a "University?" How can any school which is founded on unscientific beliefs be called a university? Notre Dame is more like a monastery!
06:48 PM on 05/15/2009
Go to ND.edu and take a look around... it's not founded on "unscientific beliefs", that's silly...

You don't have to be Catholic to go and it's one of the greatest institutions in America...
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01:35 AM on 05/16/2009
According to Michael Gerson it's God's university.
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stryker
06:09 PM on 05/15/2009
Why is it that these pro-birth supporters still fall in love with those hypocritical conservatives who, since Roe in '73, have vowed to do away with it every election and do nothing else the rest of the time to make it so. Rather than deal with a President who is open about his pro-choice views, but who has set his way to make unwanted pregancies rarer, who would promte better healthcare and economics to cut down the number and reasons for abortions, these yahoos want to ignore all that for their version of Christianity. They would rather screw up the biggest day in the ND graduates' lives than conduct a legitimate conversation or work towards a common ground. In Jesus' time unwanted children, if not aborted, were cutomarily tossed away on hillsides to die. In none of the gospels does Jesus condemn these actions. Rather he said it was better for one to kill himself than to corrupt a child, something that many in the Christian clergy, not just Catholic, have forgotten.
04:01 AM on 05/16/2009
What conversation are you referring to? The one that never took place as the Mexico City policy was quietly removed by Obama during his first days in office? Very open indeed when it comes to talking with those in the pro-life camp.

And are you asserting that Jesus would condone abortion??? Perhaps you need to re-read the New Testament.. I think you may have read it wrong the first time you glanced at it.

While I do sympathize that the graduation will not be about them, they have to accept the consequences of their actions. I am sure the ND students, president, and faculty knew what they were signing onto when they decided to give an honorary degree to the president. They had advanced warning from the bishops and then of course when they tried to use Mary Glendon forcing her to respectfully decline the honor that she honestly deserves. They knew that they would be creating a conflict within the church. How other persons outside of the church react to it is really no Catholic's concern.
05:56 PM on 05/15/2009
It's powerplay, pure & simple.

All the Catholics can do is whine about this and that. Stalin said it best, "How many divisions has the pope?"

Having neutralized the popes and bishops, it's time to turn our attention to their kith & kin the Ayatollahs & mullah - a more potent threat, who've been experimenting with real ICBM's & fissile materials.
06:37 PM on 05/15/2009
Gee, I was just having a good time reminiscing about Catholic education and stories that we Catholics can laugh about and enjoy, and now I have to find where Stalin said "how many divisions has the Pope?" I didn't know about this and will definitely look it up.

OK, now I have to adjust to stark reality about those darn Mullahs, gasping to retain their power by attracting teenage boys with no job opportunities. Ahn Amuru: can you find them jobs please?
12:44 AM on 05/16/2009
Hic! Hic!
05:31 PM on 05/15/2009
jon o'brien: I have found that my best friends are "fallen away Catholics". We didn't know it until much later when we shared personal info in that we went to Catholic schools. After comparimg stories of sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll, and how we lived to tell about it, we discovered that we DID have a bedrock of religious upbringing without having to go to Bible Study classes like other religions. We grew up and rebelled about those darn sisters making you be quiet and stand in line when the recess bell rang. We got mad because the sisters sent you home for wearing an "impure" sleeveless blouse. I don't think the boys got reprimanded for anything. Wait! I remember! A Catholic man I dated said he was told that having sex before marriiage was 50% the girl's fault.

Enough memories to be able to write a screenplay. And they have!
05:06 PM on 05/15/2009
dsw: I can't answer your question about how many times the bible mentions abortion and how many times it mentions money. When I began reading the bible around age 12, extremely impressionable and important years for a girl, I got to the part where it said that women will suffer the pain of childbirth, apparently because she tempted the man.

I slammed the book shut and never read it again. I attended Catholic schools almost entire K-12.
05:03 PM on 05/15/2009
As a person brainwashed in the Catholic religion, I've been sadened by the Church's myopic view of morality. Sex (unless it"s them) and abortion far outweigh the much more universal and important issues like; war, greed, environmental degradation, racism, sexism, etc.. These also happen to be hallmarks of Conservatives who believe that just attending mass is somehow a tribute to Christ.
05:14 PM on 05/15/2009
Thank you! It's not just Catholics. Since I moved to Houston TX 30 yrs ago from Chicago area, the Southern Baptists really outdo the Catholics in righteousness.
05:54 PM on 05/15/2009
ROFL! I've lived around this group all my life and they do see themselves as righteous. NOBODY is right but them, just ask them. Funny.
04:57 PM on 05/15/2009
Look up "Catholic of Choice" and you'll see this is an anti-Vatican 'Catholic' organization so... not Catholic and no affiliation with Notre Dame.

Point is that Obama is pretty much an abortion anytime and anywhere type of guy and with Federal Funds makes him shall we say - not a friend of the Catholic Church.

I hope and Pray the school comes out big time to protest this President...
02:41 AM on 05/16/2009
I do not think you have ANY facts to support your statment that the President is abortion anytime and anywhere. I think you are just spewing ignorance.
09:25 AM on 05/16/2009
Hell, I agree. This seems to become a Muslim Extremist discussion -coming to think of, look at the 'Wake-Up' picture. Guy, wake up!!!
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Pupadup4oBama
11:28 AM on 05/16/2009
In your next comment, perhaps you could make sense.

Just a suggestion.
04:56 PM on 05/15/2009
Great Article! As one who went to catholic schools for 16years to include ND I congratulate the school for asking President Obama to give the commencement address.
Those goofy bishops that are upset with ND should be doing more to get rid of the pedophile Priests they have in their parishes instead of attacking the President of ND.
As to the other wack jobs: Patrick Reilly, Randall Terry, Frank Pavone, and Bill Donohue they should get a LIFE or a REAL JOB! By the way I notice that they are all men just like the men that run the Catholic Church. I'm a Catholic who voted for Obama and proud of it.
04:54 PM on 05/15/2009
I’m enjoying all the comments. Thanks and keep it up.

Couple of thoughts.

In response to mrFreeze, “I can't believe that Catholics are beginning to sound more and more like neo-fascist evangelicals and Mormons every day.”

The fact is that Catholics are not. It is a small group in the hierarchy and its ultraconservative allies that are leading this assault—not all Catholics. In fact, Catholics in general support the invitation to President Obama, support his policies, are prochoice and generally have the same views as mainstream Americans. A recent Gallup poll determined that Catholic sentiment is either equivalent or more liberal to that of non-Catholics on nine issues, ranging from abortion to stem-cell research.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/More-Americans-Pro-Life-Than-Pro-Choice-First-Time.aspx

And I’ve noticed that a few people refer to themselves as CINO or Catholics in Name Only. While some may indeed have left the church, we should remember that disagreement with the hierarchy does not disqualify one from being a Catholic. In fact in some cases it is almost required. The church is made up of all Catholics, the daily mass-goers as well as the yearly and the rarely. The hierarchy and its conservative allies are in the minority.

Best wishes

Jon O’Brien
04:45 PM on 05/15/2009
Frequently when you read articles like this one, there are often one or two statements that tell you whether the author has a firm grasp of his subject - or on reality for that matter. "In some ways, it is a little difficult to understand the furor. President Obama's approach to social justice issues very much mirrors that of the Catholic church." Sorry O'Brien - if you really believe what you said in that statement - you disqualified yourself from having an intelligent opinion on, or being a credible author on the topic. You clearly don't know - or worse don't recognize the Catholic Church's immoral, unethical and corrupt history, or their undoubtedly similar motivations today as just another global business/political power system - conning the ignorant out of their money with a faith of proven lies, guilt for questioning it and the threat of excommunication and eternal damnation as tools of their extortion. Yeah, I know you think they're progressive since they stopped their last inquisition. There should be no place at any table for an institution with this kind of history. Obama is at Notre Dame for the same reason Notre Dame exists - to gather support for their respective political power centers. Hopefully that is where the similarity stops.
04:38 PM on 05/15/2009
My comment was apparently discarded during editing, so I'll just be brief:

As a RINO (Roman Catholic in name only), as long as females are the bearers of babies, they will always find a way, legally or illegally, to abort a baby. It doesn't matter if they are Catholic, Jewish, Protestant .... all women I have known agonized over this decision. So it might as well be legal and safe.