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01:45 PM on 01/05/2013
My rebuttal: The REAL list of dos and don'ts for friends of those with kids. http://www.examiner.com/article/the-real-list-of-dos-and-don-ts-for-friends-of-those-with-kids?cid=db_articles
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Turtleposer
I have micro-bios in my tummy.
03:58 PM on 01/05/2013
Excellent list! Realist & spot-on.

Yours is a list that acknowledges the trials of parenthood without trivializing the lives of people who don't have kids.
09:31 PM on 01/11/2013
Loved it! but... *dragged, not drug.

And that site is horrible, about 400 things started popping up and screaming at me and telling me I had to wait x amount of seconds before I even had the option of closing it, yikes. >_
06:51 AM on 01/05/2013
This is disgusting.
I don't recall any of my friends asking for my vote on whether they should have kids or not.
Yet, you want us to kowtow to you and act like your struggles are more than anyone else's?
Please. Like Toya Davis said, if I'm busy, I'm busy. If I'm stressed, I'm stressed.
If you, a parent, come to me and say you're stressed, I'm not going to tell you that you shouldn't be or that it's wrong for you to fee like that. If you say you are, you are.

You chose to have kids. All the crap you have to put up with (literally and figuratively) is part of the package. Don't expect me to rearrange my life around your "small, needy, inquisitive, me machine."
And yeah - when you never ever accept social invitations, people stop inviting you. That's the way it works.
You should have budgeted for a babysitter once in a blue moon.
02:24 PM on 01/05/2013
Wow - your comment (and some others here) to this article is so over-the-top vitriolic! The author is saying, if you're my friend support my choice and don't write me off, if you're my friend help out a little now and then just as I would help you out if you needed it, and understand that for a few years I might not be as free as I was before but don't exclude me. And the article specifically says don't feel you have to rearrange your life around my choice but don't disappear either.

Also, those of you who chose to remain childfree - and more power to you - don't forget that if you live long enough you will be in need of young people: nurses and doctors, home-help and the all that youthful strength that is needed to keep things going plus you will need the revenue from the next generation's taxes to maintain the infrastructure to which you are accustomed. We who have chosen to be parents foot the gigantic bill (and not just financial, although that is massive enough) to raise these "me machines" who will become those very people that you may depend on in the future. So, next time you feel like metaphorically kicking your child-producing friends in the nuts, consider that. And next time your cash-strapped friend needs a break but can't afford a babysitter, maybe you might "be a pal" and volunteer.
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03:33 PM on 01/05/2013
Then why doesn't the author say that in a way that's more friendly, instead of giving commands to his friends. He's basically trying to process and justify his life through a series of demands, the type of things you would say to a kid... I have a simpler list:

DO NOT talk to me as if I were your child. If you want my friendship, please act like my friend.
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Rev David Huber
A non-progressive mind is a wasted mind.
04:00 PM on 01/05/2013
Your second paragraph is the most ludicrous pile of self-righteous, fear-mongering, back-patting, woe-is-you garbage that I never grow interested in hearing. It was a stupid argument ten years ago when I first heard it, and it remains so. The only legitimate reason to have children is because you feel called to have them. Having children so that you'll have someone to take care of you in your dotage is one of the more selfish and self-centered reasons I can think of.
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Xak999
It came out of the faucet that way...
10:25 PM on 01/04/2013
All the men I now that got married and had kids (after 13 years and no kids, my marriage ended in divorce), usually they are 'not permitted' by her royal highness to even HAVE other guy friends. "Oh, she'd think that was weird" one of them said to me. Ditto to continue buying his own underwear.

They turn down EVERY adult thing because they don't have the time and have to be in bed early, right after the 11:00pm news--or sooner. None of this, 'Well, I'll at least watch Jay Leno's monologue and THEN go to bed.' They have to be ready for bed at all times because they never know when their next chance might be to 'get lucky' because that's something else that only happens 'by permission.' too.

He's usually 'allowed' two (of the three main things guys really enjoy) and those two are a choice between whatever game is on that night and cars. (I'll leave the third to your imagination.) And most women complain they don't have enough power.
12:55 PM on 01/05/2013
I'm so sad for you that this has been your experience with marriage. My husband (of 10 years) and I have two children and we still go out regularly (we have a lot of family and friends who are willing to watch our kids for free - thought many times to be honest my husband prefers to take the kids - he seems to really like them for some odd reason) and he does all the things you say your friends aren't "allowed" to do... I'm sorry I just couldn't help but comment and tell you it just doesn't have to be that way... (totally unrelated to the article above) =)
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Xak999
It came out of the faucet that way...
12:26 PM on 01/06/2013
Kristen Cornejo:

I really appreciate your comment. When still married, I considered it nearly everything I wanted it to be for almost all of it except maybe the last year. Minus the kids, we were able to enjoy each other's company a lot, just like with your successful (yay!) marriage.

What I described are the experiences of OTHER married men I'd met along the way. It was hard for me to process how great my wife and I actually had it once understanding how a great many wives 'run' their husbands along with their households in such dreary ways.

Often the result of 'conferences and consensus's with like-minded girlfriends,' the men were terrified to do anything or say anything outside the 'approved husband behavior' out of fear that the 'consensus of girlfriends' (did I just invent COG?) would have him put out... of his home, his family and his misery... Truly terrifying to think about.

Congratulations on having such a great guy! And congratulations to him on having such an understanding wife.
06:13 PM on 01/04/2013
Oh please. "Don't describe myself as insanely busy"? Please. If I'm busy, I'm busy, it's not up to you to dictate whats busy for me vs what's busy for you.
03:17 PM on 01/04/2013
"Have a bad enough week and you can crawl into bed Friday at 6 p.m. with a box of Chardonnay, some Hot Pockets and the remote control and not get up for three days. Your worst-case scenario is probably a nasty personal hygiene problem."

Oh really?
Because I thought that you could still get seriously ill, have family that is seriously ill, get fired, get homeless, have people's lives depend on you, and a myriad other things, even though you aren't a parent.

Silly me, I'll just shot up about my stress of being laid off in the middle of a large financial crisis. Wouldn't want to say I'm stressed!
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Amaryllis612
Why do I need a microbio
05:07 PM on 01/03/2013
But I'm never volunteering to help you with your kids. I didn't do it when my friends did have young kids. That's what the nanny is for!
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MexiChick67
Que? Que? Queee?
04:27 PM on 01/03/2013
I have to remind myself to be tolerant of people with young children. I'm guilty of being impatient with friends that still have young children at home. My only son is about to go off to college in the next year, so my husband and I will be 'empty nesters'. I have to say that I'm glad we had our son in our mid-20s so we still have the rest of our lives to nurture interests, hobbies, volunteering, caring for aging parent, etc. and still have our health.
04:17 PM on 01/03/2013
I'm CF and truly enjoy spending time with most of my friends 'little monsters' I get to teach them all the wrong things, sugar and caffeine them up, show them the side of there parents they never see and hand them back and watch the chaos ensure............Dance my pretties.....

And think I'm a god-mom and 'favorite aunt' of many children.
03:52 PM on 01/03/2013
"I don't consider myself to be "a furniture person," but I still wouldn't stand there and watch you move a couch all alone."

There is a reason I end up losing touch with friends that have small children. It's called, "You wanted something I will never want or be able to relate to." Everyone needs furniture. No one needs children. To say I should help with your kids because you should help with my sofa? It's evidence that you have no idea what being childFREE is about (we are not childLESS).
01:46 PM on 01/03/2013
DO volunteer to help out with my horse. Maybe you don't consider yourself to be a horse person, and that's okay. I don't consider myself to be a Scotch person, but I still wouldn't stand there and watch you drink Scotch all alone. I'll order a beer! Horses come with an absurdly long list of both gear and needs that we have to juggle. Learning how to unload and stack a ton of hay, break ice in water buckets, scoop frozen manure on a cold morning and getting little Chancie a refill of her grain, might be things well outside your comfort zone, but they can be an enormous relief to a busy horse parent. Besides, that's what friends do.
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JD Roberto
08:41 PM on 01/03/2013
Thing is, if we were good friends I would absolutely learn all those things because, indeed, that's what' friends do.
11:25 AM on 01/05/2013
No one believes that.
02:27 PM on 01/05/2013
Then again your horse won't grow up to pay taxes and help keep you in your old age with the infrastructure to which you've become accustomed. But don't worry, I doubt your childful friends - if you have such - wouldn't want you to help them out anyway.
02:36 PM on 01/07/2013
Have you been to a nursing home lately? There's thousands of elderly whose kids aren't taking care of them and have basically left them there to rot. What a great reason to have kids.....so you can saddle them with your care. Why not make your own preparations?
02:02 PM on 01/10/2013
That infrastructure wasn't bestowed upon me. I'm paying for it now with taxes. Adults 40 years from now will do the same. And the money I save will pay those kids' salaries. I'd like to meet all these kids who will apparently be taking care of me for free.

I took care of my elderly parents. It was both terrible and rewarding. I would rather my own kid not have to do that for me. (Yes, this is coming from a soon-to-be mother who is tired of all the child-worship crap in America.) I'm having a kid because I want one. I hope my childfree/less friends will be patient with me, and continue to share their lives with me. Those lives are just as meaningful as my own.
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Julia Bailey
12:02 PM on 01/03/2013
"DON'T buy into to the myth that the lives of people with kids are awash with indescribable depth and meaning"

Never even heard that myth.
03:24 PM on 01/03/2013
I hate that 'Mother is the most important job a woman could have' crap.
03:37 AM on 01/03/2013
I'm CF and I certainly wouldn't refer to any of my childed friends as "breeders." Breeders don't bother to properly instruct or set a good example for their offspring. (Three words: Honey Boo Boo.) My childed friends are parents. Parents discipline, care for and teach their children how to become decently functioning citizens.

That said, I can appreciate the sense of humor the author has in using the word to refer to himself. I mostly agree with everything in his article except for the bit about not saying one is exhausted. There are a LOT of reasons why someone, kids or no kids, may be that bogged down that they say so. Stress shouldn't be a one-upmanship contest.

As for the Facebook pics, well, there's a reason I refuse to use Facebook. ;)
02:33 PM on 01/02/2013
I just love how people are so offended by the tone of this article while commenting in the nastiest of tones! I think it should just be a discussion on the perspectives of people on different life paths. But as usual it turns into a battle between the sides! I highly respect both sides because they both made a choice that works for them. Being a parent is the hardest and most wonderful thing I have ever done. It is a bit isolating and exhausting in a way I cannot describe and some of these tips are pretty nice. I would not force anyone to do it. Just tips on how to be kind to these people. Some people here seemed to take it as a personal attack! LOL!! Defensive maybe?? People with kids should respect the ones who chose not to have kids because no one should do this job if they don't want to. They have a whole other set of stressors and responsibilities! No one is free of stress and exhaustion. It is just a life path and a choice. Come on people why does it always have to be a battle!?
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Andygirl A
angering at least one person a day since 1996
01:27 PM on 01/02/2013
I have an issue with some of these. parents don't have a monopoly on stress or exhaustion. parenting, I'm sure, is its own brand of unique exhaustion, but, for the most part, you chose that life. I contend that working three jobs with no days off for months on end and still struggling to make rent because your crazy roommate disappeared is also its own kind of exhaustion and I reserve the right to call it that. luckily, that kind of stress is behind me and I worked hard to make my life easier.

and I will volunteer to play with your child, to help assemble a crib, or paint a room. but babysitters get paid to babysit and change diapers and cook food and wipe bodily fluids. I didn't have a baby, so I reserve the right to not have to do that crap for free. I chose to be child free so that I don't have to.

that said, I love my friends' kids and I also love that I get to give them back when they're not being adorable angels.
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singledatingdiv
Award winning dating blogger.
07:34 AM on 01/02/2013
Love this do's and don'ts list ... being without kids it's sometimes hard to know where the line is, this is a good guideline.