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11:25 AM on 12/16/2012
Spending a fortune for public security doesn't always work. It probably stops 99% of those with bad intent, but we need to stop the 1% who get through.

911 was done by a few men with airplane tickets and box cutters. We had a lot of security even back then. Now we have twice as much.

The shooting at Sandy Hook didn't cost the young man anything, he used his mother's guns. The school had a lot of security checks, but that didn't work. We need to keep our complex security but also think along the line of figuring out the way an insanely mad young man can break through it all.

The gunman forced his way into the school by shooting through glass to breach a secure, locked system. Start there and figure out a quicker back up for when a killer gets through the glass.
02:37 PM on 12/16/2012
This school and most elementary schools have little to no actual security other than the ability to lock doors.

Cameras are forensic tools
Unarmed Administrators are witnesses or victims
Calling 911 isn't security, it just minimizes the time criminal has.

Actual security is being able to stop a perpetrator, not report an incident.
11:16 AM on 12/16/2012
Yea, the 30 year old handgun BANS in Chicago and DC have made them safe. (yes, ban overturned 2 years ago)
11:16 AM on 12/16/2012
The Second amendment right so many like to grasp like a brass ring as their personal bill of rights on gun ownership, need to reflect more closely on the exact wording. "The right of the 'people'" not the right of every citizen.

What I'm getting at is simple; the constitution raises the rights of the populous, the people, to bear arms. As an attorney, one who has spent time working with the appellate courts interpreting the constitution, the meaning is significant.

The expression, "the right of the people" while inclusive in design is not, "all inclusive" in application. In short, the 2nd Amendment does not state "the right of each and every person. This may raise a rebuttable presumption of ones right to own a firearm but the presumption is rebuttable nevertheless. While considered a right of the people, on an individual basis, it must be viewed as a privilege, exercised as such and subject review and/or revocation if abused.

When Americans begin analyzing gun ownership as an individual privilege, subject to rules, responsibilities, and obligations, we can begin to engage in open and positive discourse for common ground and compromise.
02:49 PM on 12/16/2012
Careful what you ask for... there is A TON of room for interpretation in the other amendments too. As an attorney surely you understand the concept of a slippery slope.

The first amendment is worded similarly and could easily fall based on this argument.

A person's 2nd Amendment right is subject to review and/or revocation if abused....felony and many other types of people are not legally allowed to own firearms and the requirements are even stricter for people that want carry permits.

Compromises involving bans or registration have almost always historically led to confiscation....then often tyranny.

So what compromises would you suggest?
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juna
Golden Rule is all we need.
10:38 PM on 12/16/2012
Re-write the Second amendment. The founders made a huge mistake with their wording. I'm sure they wouldn't have written such an amendment if they could have seen into the future. We are now in a state of siege because of the millions of guns and their uncontrollable owners.
08:01 AM on 12/17/2012
One compromise that seems to be ignored is the concept of responsibility. Walk into any gun store and you will find gun safes on display. I'm talking about the ones that weigh several hundred pounds and more. Some have intricate locking designs similar to bank vaults.

They are not inexpensive, I know, I own one. They are too heavy to be removed from a person's home without a tremendous effort and the better models are all but indestructible.
A trigger lock can be drilled off in a matter of minutes.

I don't care what laws you pass, short of a total ban on gun ownership, no laws would have prevented this tragedy, the weapons were taken by force. Had they been locked in a gun vault however, things might be different. The young man's mother knew her son had emotional issues, not to this extent but emotional issues nonetheless.

Gun safes don't restrict ownership rights, they don't limit the number or type of weapon. What they do is make it virtually impossible for anyone except the owner to gain access.

Weapon ownership comes with a tremendous responsibility. We as a society know all to well the price paid when theses weapons fall into the wrong hands. The issue of security needs to come front and center in this debate.
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humpitydumpity
11:12 AM on 12/16/2012
“We've created a 'gun-free zone,' a killing zone, for the sickest criminals on the face of the Earth," said R. Lee Wrights, vice-chair of the Libertarian Party. "We've given them an open killing field, and we've made the children of this country the victims."

Wrights pointed out that merely the knowledge that armed people will be present acts as a deterrent for would-be shooters.

"They're not going to walk into a police station, and why not? Because that's where the guns are," he said.

The Federal Gun Free Schools Zone Act prohibits carrying firearms on school grounds in most cases, effectively criminalizing the right to self-defense in places filled with the most vulnerable citizens.

"We must stop blinding ourselves to the obvious: Most of these mass killings are happening at schools where self-defense is prohibited," said Carla Howell, executive director of the Libertarian Party. "Gun prohibition sets the stage for the slaughter of innocent children. We must repeal these anti-self-defense laws now to minimize the likelihood they will occur in the future and to the limit the damage done when they do."
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JakobHunter
Bloke /English
11:46 AM on 12/16/2012
""Gun prohibition sets the stage for the slaughter of innocent children." that is just utter non sense
03:39 PM on 12/16/2012
It's utter nonsense until you actually look at history, stats and the facts.

With a single exception, every multiple-victim public shooting in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed since at least 1950 has taken place where citizens are prohibited to carry their own firearms.
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humpitydumpity
11:09 AM on 12/16/2012
Libertarian Party: Halt the Massacre of Innocent Children by Ending Prohibition on Self-Defense in Schools

In the immediate aftermath of news surrounding the shootings, pundits and politicians called for new restrictions on firearm ownership, exactly the opposite of the approach needed to combat tragic gun violence in schools.

"You can't depend on somebody else to take care of your own life for you," Wrights said. "It's too precious to put it into the hands of somebody else, particularly when the seconds count."
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ideaville
I have sexdaily, I mean dyslexia, Danm!
09:53 AM on 12/16/2012
If I would be threatened by a potentially violent individual, I would have no choice but to avoid conflict as i do not have access to firearms in the UK (thankfully neither do most potentially violent people). Therefore I never get involved in confrontations, if someone cuts me up in the car or insults me, I do the grown up thing, smile and walk away. I don't lose my temper as I might have done as a youngster. Now as a young bad-tempered American, I would have access to guns, a relatively impersonal way to kill a large number of people who may have slighted me, my warped idea if how a real man never backs down gained from Hollywood movies and video games, means that by the time my temper subsides, there are bodies everywhere and the inevitable end is either get shot by police or shoot myself.
If only a few similar guys to the ones that seem to carry out these shootings didn't have access to guns through an "inconvenient" clamp down on firearms, wouldn't that be good?
03:59 PM on 12/16/2012
You're logic would make total sense it there weren't mass shootings in the UK, Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Germany, China, South Korea, Japan and just about every other place with strict gun control and a sizable population.

This isn't an American problem. It's a human problem. Don't insult us.

...and the problem isn't guns, the problem is murder.
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rabidrightwatch
Concerned environmentalist: don't frack the UK
09:42 AM on 12/16/2012
Observation from abroad:

First of all, this is a tragedy on every level, and I wish the parents, siblings and friends of the victims all good fortune at this impossibly difficult time.

The scenario is fundamentally alien to many in Europe, and the distasteful rush to defend the Second Amendment rights of the citizen is both untimely and crass.

I've just look up the Second Amendment:
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As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
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The phrase 'well regulated militia' screams out ... there's nothing advocating wholesale weaponry ownership by almost anyone with a pulse.

There's a clear correlation between wholesale gun ownership and the propensity to use said weaponry more readily?

yes, I can almost hear the gun lobby rearing up on its hind legs, but surely this - finally - must be the time to severely restrict the availability of firearms to the 'well regulated militia' referred to in the Second Amendment?

As a foreign observer, I find it incredible that the US maintains this antiquated notion that almost anyone can arm themselves and hold weapons at home;it doesn't sound very safe to me at all.

No doubt, somewhere buried in your original Constitution is the right to own slaves, the denial of the vote for women... these situations changed - and the constitution amended accordingly.

Greetings from
04:33 PM on 12/16/2012
Entirely well put. 2nd amendment rights seem to be more critical than the right to not be killed by fire arms.
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ideaville
I have sexdaily, I mean dyslexia, Danm!
09:42 AM on 12/16/2012
Americans have become a victims of rich politicians with an interest in war, convincing them they need to live in fear of their lives in order to maintain ridiculous levels of defense spending.
Everyday you are perceived to be at risk from black teenagers in hoodies, Mexican drug gangs, Islamic terrorists and the only answer seems to be to arm yourselves to the teeth. On Friday, 20 innocent children were murdered as a direct result of a spoilt child's mother's right to bear arms. Ironically, the same gun she thought she needed to protect her home was the one that killed her. Thankfully she did not live to see her son slaughter the children at her school. On that same day how many gun owners were forced to use weapons to defend their homes? And were the deaths of 20 kids a reasonable price to pay for the freedom to carry guns? It amazes me that so many people in America are so militant about denying women the right to an abortion, but seem to accept that 1500 children a year, 5 times more than in all the other 25 industrialised nations COMBINED, will die by firearms. Why doesn't pro-life cover kids from being killed by guns? Oh yeah, I forgot, MONEY!
04:20 PM on 12/16/2012
Of all the things that went wrong on Friday, you blame the dead mom for not locking her guns up from her own 20 YEAR OLD adult son? Someone who she might want to have access to them in an emergency.

How many kids is your right of free speech worth?
How many children would you sacrifice to keep black people from being slaves?
How many kids are die every year so we can own automobiles, swimming pools, boats, and prescription drugs?
Stupid questions, aren't they?
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ideaville
I have sexdaily, I mean dyslexia, Danm!
05:17 PM on 12/16/2012
But he didn't need the the guns, he used them to kill 20 kids!
09:10 AM on 12/16/2012
Need to look hard at what our kids are exposed to, the music lyrics talk about this type things, video games & movies just desensitizes them take away the value of life by removing God . Also saying ok to destroy unborn babies go figure
09:03 AM on 12/16/2012
Ask yourself how has drug laws stop illegal drugs? Can go anywhere in town and get whatever drug you want same would be with guns
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JakobHunter
Bloke /English
11:49 AM on 12/16/2012
Fair enough , come to the UK and see how easy it is to buy an illegal firearm..

PS . Its not easy
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44jupiter
Okay, where's the damn ice?
01:00 PM on 12/16/2012
That is a false equivalency. Guns don't have the guaranteed seller's market that addictive substances do, which (along with harsh penalties) is why other countries are able to effectively ban or tightly control gun ownership. Nobody goes into physical withdrawal if they can't get their next gun fix. If your argument made sense then anyone who wants a gun in countries like England and Japan would have no problem at all getting one.
03:52 PM on 12/16/2012
Keep fooling yourself
04:01 PM on 12/16/2012
What about swizterland?
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07:01 AM on 12/16/2012
If this does not force a change, I feel (and fear) that nothing else can, or will.
06:00 AM on 12/16/2012
Repubs go off the deep end when one border agent is killed and when 4 are killed in an attack in another country and demand fixes. I predict we will not hear one word from Repubs to do some limited fixes in current gun laws - for instance 100% background checks, not like the current 40%.
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JstDarla
Gone Fishing
09:20 AM on 12/16/2012
Because they are the one's holding up the bills in Congress to ban the assault weapons. In 1994 the bill was enacted and in 2004 GWB and Congress allowed it to expire. Now there are several bills waiting for years to be heard and being held up by the speaker and Congress.
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Hunter3203
Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to b happy
09:23 AM on 12/16/2012
I challenge you to go into a gun dealer's store and try to buy a gun without a background check. Btw, it doesn't matter if the dealer is in his store or at a gun show, the same laws apply.
05:17 AM on 12/16/2012
The film industry has one goal, profits. Every time this issue is raised, they and their outlets, the media, quickly push the issue to the back page. Profits are far and away more important than the emotional health of our society. Feed any group of people a steady diet of carnage and killing, then subsequently put some of them in compromised positions emotionally and you have the perfect recipe for disaster.

Rationale normal people don't seek out violence as a solution to life's problems. Unfortunately, we have a society awash in medications utilized as an easy fix because we don't have the money, time or interest to address our countries mental health issues.

It's time to take a hard look at our values and priorities. If our children are truly our most valuable possession then it's time to treat their minds as such. This countries crime and violence issues will not change, regardless of new gun legislation until we open our eyes and begin to address mental health issues and mandate changes in the entertainment industry.
05:17 AM on 12/16/2012
Before we follow the same mired pro/anti gun path with the resulting personal insults and attacks, let's just once, look at the total picture. Where does the physical violence mindset originate?

From the time children develop the attention span to watch TV, violence is served as the main entree. Cartoons showing a mouse disemboweling a cat, beheading it and dismembering it with every possible tool and element; this is the "comedy" we introduce our children to. As children mature so too, do the graphics.

Hollywood and New York, our entertainment and media hubs serve up a never-ending buffet of carnage why ?, because it sells. The name of the game is profit.

Where the hell do you think unstable people get their ideas, in addition to copy cat crimes? There was a study done years ago regarding the average amount of violence a person watches on TV and on screen; by the time the average person reaches adulthood, they view more than 144,000 murders and killings. Cont.
06:04 AM on 12/16/2012
When I was growning up, I must have killed hundreds of cowboys and indians. When I grew up, I did not hunt and I have a live and let live attitude about everything in nature including sharks and snakes. I think it is more than what one is exposed to on TV. How about all of the parents who believe in corporal punishment? Is that a factor?
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JakobHunter
Bloke /English
11:54 AM on 12/16/2012
"
Cartoons showing a mouse disemboweling a cat,"
Children can , unlike you , tell the difference between what an animated cat and mouse do, and real life. There i is simply no correlation between that type of entertainment and violent behavior.
01:04 PM on 12/16/2012
If you honestly believe that onscreen violence has no impact on children, I suggest you speak with a psychiatrist. Instead of insulting someone else based on your unfounded and unsupported beliefs, Try opening your mind and listen to a few experts, unless of coarse you have a doctorate in behavioral science.
02:28 AM on 12/16/2012
None of these proposed additions to gun laws would have prevented this tragedy.
As our economy and culture degenerates, we will have more and more confused and crazy people doing crazy things.
Fix the economy, enforce the laws, keep the insane and the violent criminals behind bars until its safe to release them. And when you're not sure, don't release them until you are.
I know these things take time and we need money to rehabilitate the sick and the insane and the money is no where to be found. Yet you politicians sure found it fast enough to save the bankers and wall street barons, not to mention the billions spent on the needless wars generated for the benefit of the military industry. Let's eliminate the foreign wars we're running now and spend our tax dollars here for a change. Blaming guns for the actions of insane murderers is like blinding cars because of drunk drivers.