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KristineE
Out and Proud Of It
01:45 PM on 04/03/2013
The anti-gay stance of church leaders will never change. But the hearts of many Catholics are changing to include Love for all of God's children which includes equality for all, not just some.
03:32 PM on 04/03/2013
There is a spiritual world and a material world. Make your choice and live by the respective rules!
03:47 PM on 04/03/2013
"anti-gay" stance is very broad and amorphous. Love all people, but one can have his own idea of sexual morality. Gay sex is the issue being disagreed upon, not gay people. This is the stance taken in the article by Cardinal Dolan and the Church.
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Robert Eckert
Anybody looking for a nerd?
06:04 PM on 04/07/2013
To say that certain people should never have love or intimacy in their lives, when God most decidedly did not "call them to celibacy", is not a loving or moral stance.
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OtayPanky
You're welcome
01:38 PM on 04/03/2013
The 15 minutes of media honeymoon with this new pope is about to end.

SSDD.
03:34 PM on 04/03/2013
You have got that right. God does not evolve. He loves you but He does not evolve.
04:45 PM on 04/03/2013
You are not God.
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OtayPanky
You're welcome
06:45 PM on 04/03/2013
TheLastSaneAmerican: God does not evolve.

---

So...the Levitical Law is still in effect?

Geez...I don't know a single Christian or Catholic who believes that.

Clearly you're a deep thinker.
pagan-vegan
what separates me, saves me
01:21 PM on 04/03/2013
although we appreciate any little crumb of decency, they need to do a lot more than a change in tone. like a 180 degree reversal
01:05 PM on 04/03/2013
There will only be a real change in the church toward gays and women when the church digs a bit deeper and understands that all sex is not intended to be about procreation.
There is ample groundwork for this already and the paradigm is near reaching a necessary change point soon.
The church has already had to twist itself in knots to support marriage among older, non reproducing adults as it seems to clearly violate the church position.
Much as having married Anglican clergy serving as priests in the Roman church is already stretching the position on celibacy for priests, we are on the precipice of great change and awakening.
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Grada3784
Dogmatic Dictators, believers or not, not welcome
12:21 PM on 04/03/2013
Change in tone.

The Dwarves are still for the Dwarves.
12:20 PM on 04/03/2013
I seem to hear echoes of previous rationales for miscegenation laws. "We respect other races, but they can't be allowed to marry whites." Thankfully, those attitudes are fading away, but the same kind of thinking is now being applied to gays. "We respect you, but we really can't allow you to have the same rights as normal people."
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SeeingIs
12:15 PM on 04/03/2013
Dolan and other US RC bishops have no trouble turning on a dime if they sense any shift whatsoever in the Vatican. I believe Dolan, a born politician if ever there was one, would be capable of changing opinion in mid-sentence if he thought it his boss wanted it. They may change tone, they will not retreat on substance, particulalry if any sex, sexuality, or genitalia in general are involved. If there is one area with which they have absolutely no comfort level, that is it.
12:06 PM on 04/03/2013
A recent editorial in the LA Times addressed the issue of same sex couples being allowed to attend the proms of Catholic High Schools. While that is an important and positive recognition of the validity of same sex relationships it begs an issue that the Church will have to address directly at some point down the road. How can the Church approve of a romantic relationship without offering any way for it to be consumated? Eternal frustration is not an acceptable answe.
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GimmeABreak70
11:37 AM on 04/03/2013
Get over it Dolan. My husband and I are already legally married...you didn't drop de-ad, your cult didn't crumble, nobody suddenly had the unexplained urge to divorce their mate....it's all ok. Move on.
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talkstocoyotes
10:07 AM on 04/03/2013
This story's fan-style gushing over Dolan's incredibly obtuse and patronizing remarks is the best example I've seen of how totally disconnected the Church of Rome and its evangelical bretheren are. We now have full marriage equality in a number of countries more advanced than the US; nine US states plus the District of Columbia with full marriage equality and two cases before the Supreme Court -- and some religious bureaucrat thinks he's making a huge concession by telling gay people that he will graciously allow them "friendships"? Monty Python could hardly have done better.
03:06 PM on 04/03/2013
Yes. I guess we are supposed to be grateful for crumbs.
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Utopian Sky
The Unexamined Life is not Worth Living
04:02 PM on 04/03/2013
Ah, but can they be friends with benefits! :)

By that I mean the benefits associated with a legally recognized marriage- what did you think I meant? :)
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califson
Love my country, ashamed of my government
11:23 PM on 04/02/2013
There can be no shift in position. God's word does not change no matter how we Americans try to justify it. God loves all His children, there is salvation, love and grace open to each of us, but my sin is unacceptable in the presence of the creator. Its arrogrant for us to expect a different Pope to change how the church stands on the Word of God...I am not Catholic...
09:51 AM on 04/03/2013
The 'Bible' is not "God's Word", it never was, and it never will be.

It still amazes me that supposed Humans can believe in a thing all their lives, and not once bother to do a little research on those beliefs, especially who wrote these books and why. If you had, you'd be shaking your head at the lies you've been told, rather than showing everyone around you how little you know about the subject you're commenting upon.

That's lazy among other things.
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nogods
01:02 PM on 04/03/2013
No god ever said a damned thing.
01:09 PM on 04/03/2013
'The 'Bible' is not "God's Word", it never was, and it never will be'.

Wow, quite a statement', since it claims to be. Jesus said it is and quoted from it extensively.
if it were mearly humans who penned the Bible they must be way, way ,way ahead of their time. who could predict tthe future with such accuracy.
And these 40 or so people must have, over a peiod of 1600 years, been able to write a book that is in perfect harmony and has a beginning a middle and an end.. and in some cases did not understand the meaning of what they were writing. That in itself is nothing short of a miricle.
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Utopian Sky
The Unexamined Life is not Worth Living
04:00 PM on 04/03/2013
If God's word does not change, then why are there hundreds of different Christian denominations, all holding various and contradictory beliefs about what the Bible says?

And why do Christian's beliefs keep changing from era to era?

For example- how do you feel about abortion?

Most conservative American Christians are strongly against it, but the Bible does not condemn abortion at all. In fact, in the book of Numbers God says that if a man has a pregnant wife, and he suspects his wife of adultery, he should take her to a priest for an abortion.

Not only does God not condemn abortion, he even recommends it.

So, how do your beliefs compare to the Word of God?

Will you change your beliefs to match the Bible, or ignore the Bible when it differs from your beliefs?
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Contact1972
DOMA is DEAD
08:19 PM on 04/02/2013
Why does the RC Church, or ANY religious institution feel it necessary to stick their noses into CIVIL MARRIAGE?
08:15 PM on 04/02/2013
The important question for the RC Church, and Cardinal Dolan, to ask is, "How should this church minister to those people?" As soon as they begin to ask that question, and to honestly seek answers, the healing will begin.

However, Dolan's recent statements do _not_ indicate that he is beginning to ask that question, much less seek any answer. He might be beginning to recognize that gay and lesbian people are human beings. But, even that seems unlikely. The old "love the sinner but hate the sin" nonsense is just an excuse to continue the hate.

I suspect the real reason is, that his church business has been losing market share for the last couple of decades, and the rate of decline has become a serious financial problem.
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bobcatt53
Only Jesus!
09:28 AM on 04/03/2013
I have to agree with you. When 80% of 18-30 year olds support same-sex marriage, the
Church must take heed. As for Dolan, he is one of the most disingenuous windbags in the
Church today.
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Jeremy Bursac
You're not the bossa nova me.
06:49 PM on 04/02/2013
"In saying GLBT leaders need to do a better job of showing that their opposition to Catholics being able to marry or serve openly or have employment protections or adopt is not an attack on Catholics, the nation's top glbt pogrom-seeker seemed to be signaling an important shift in tone, if not policies, that acknowledges new realities."
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Jeremy Bursac
You're not the bossa nova me.
06:44 PM on 04/02/2013
"'A disagreement on the definition of marriage is a serious disagreement. It is not, however, separation from the love of God,' Sister Mary Ann Walsh, a spokesperson for the USCCB, wrote in a blog post."

Actually many priests and nuns have been separated from the RCC simply for advocating on behalf of even routine glbt rights. (Not to mention the ones separated from the RCC for suggesting that women be ordinated as priests.)

What does it mean when religious people lie about their religion?
09:54 AM on 04/03/2013
It means they don't know the truth about their religion anymore than the people they've lied to about it to keep their careers afloat.

For starters.