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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
snapshot1940
"We have met the enemy and he is us"
01:41 PM on 06/22/2013
They would be better off contacting the Indian girl who has perfected charging small batteries in 20 seconds.
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lcr999
scientist
10:46 PM on 06/22/2013
Unfortunately, she didn't actually do that.
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Becky Selfridge
If I were two-faced, would I be wearing this one?
01:37 PM on 06/22/2013
electric only cars only make sense in cities and suburbs and other rural areas. Any place that has small towns far apart or where you have to cross mountains to get to a main town is pretty much out for these things. A pretty good chunk of the country is mountainous or is a collection of isolated small towns. I just don't see these being a feasible thing to own when I live two mountains away from "town" which is just a college town.
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Shaun Hensley
The American Experiment has failed
10:18 PM on 06/22/2013
In other words, they only make sense where most people live.
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oneeasyrider
E=mc2: From light you exist
11:27 PM on 06/22/2013
70% of the population lives in coastal regions.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Becky Selfridge
If I were two-faced, would I be wearing this one?
09:39 AM on 06/23/2013
where populations are dense. 47% of the US population alone does not live in an urban area.
ItsGettingWeird
(or is it just me?)
07:50 PM on 06/23/2013
"electric only cars only make sense in cities and suburbs and other rural areas."

That's every place I have ever lived.
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Gracie Gragg
Music is my passion, Egonovist is my religion.
01:16 PM on 06/22/2013
Just hope your state does not impose an extra big tax for your car. We got a Toyota Hybred thing going green was the way to go but now out stste has imposed an extra high tax on them simply because we wouldn't be using or buying as much gas as we used to do before buying the Hybred. I love the car because you do not even have to plug it in to recharg anything but sure don't like the newly added tax to pay. Just don't seem fair somehow.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
dwhuston
Conservatives - The Abominable No Men
01:21 PM on 06/22/2013
That really stinks. What state are you in?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Gracie Gragg
Music is my passion, Egonovist is my religion.
01:46 PM on 06/22/2013
North Carolina. They just a couple months ago passed it after we got the car.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Gene Bridges
03:42 PM on 06/22/2013
True story. Our general assembly gave us the shaft on electric cars here.
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symmetryfan
01:12 PM on 06/22/2013
People take a lot of convincing, because until now, your argument for it wasn't very good. I love what Elon does, but his "You ignorant pleebs don't understand why you need a 100k dollar car that will barely handle a metro commute." attitude is tiresome. You want EVs to catch on, you've got to get them on the roads in numbers, and to do that, a universal quick charge method needs to be developed. Stop focusing on the proprietary exotic sports car angle and build the EV version of the Model T.
02:48 PM on 06/22/2013
As much as I hate Henry Ford as a person, I have to agree with your sentiment here. Small electric cars need to be made available for stupendously low prices. I'm talking a few thousand dollars. That's the only way to make an actual impact and a lasting change to the auto market in this country. There's no reason these vehicles are being pushed as "luxury" cars.
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Aquest
No one here is exactly what they appear.
09:52 PM on 06/22/2013
So far you can't have a really cheap electric car because the battery technology is just not there.
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symmetryfan
11:03 PM on 06/22/2013
C'mon man! It was between the Model T and the VW. Two of the most famous anti-semites in the world were behind them. I had no good option, so I avoided the worst, hehe. To your point. They either need to bring the range WAY up, or the price under 15k with charger, or it's not going to happen in any big way. We're very close to the goal, but we're about one battery break-through away, IMO.
ItsGettingWeird
(or is it just me?)
06:34 AM on 06/23/2013
""You ignorant pleebs don't understand why you need a 100k dollar car that will barely handle a metro commute." attitude is tiresome."

I have closely followed Tesla Motors for a long time, and I have never seen or heard anything about Elon Musk that comes even remotely close to what you are saying.
11:22 AM on 06/23/2013
seriously - the prices on their cars have dropped, range has been extended, and their newest sedan is very roomy. It's still over-priced (for the average consumer) but in luxury vehicle range as opposed to dream car range.
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symmetryfan
12:23 PM on 06/23/2013
It's stated above. He implies that the reason he did this, was because people need to be convinced that EVs are practical. Where the truth is, this was a necessary step to increase the practicality of his and other EVs so that they can get over the hurdles that they currently face. There was nothing before this that the public didn't get about it. It was a very pricey and impractical sports car, but a nice step on the road to effective EV transportation. 
12:06 PM on 06/22/2013
TESLA is great....... I wish I could afford one.

I hope that they are able to lower prices in the future.
01:14 PM on 06/22/2013
From your computer screen to their board members' eyes. :)
01:21 PM on 06/22/2013
They have gotten the price down to 70,000 dollars. Still not cheap but it should continue to drop.
02:15 AM on 06/23/2013
I can't risk 70k on something that may not be around in 5 years.
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thissideup
11:00 AM on 06/22/2013
We already exchange propane tanks, why not batteries?
11:10 AM on 06/22/2013
While both have a finite number of useful cycles, the batteries have a much smaller number of refills in their lifecycle than a propane tank does. Also the amount of energy held by a propane tank doesn't decrease with each refill, while a battery energy storage ability decreases with each refill.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
thissideup
11:21 AM on 06/22/2013
Another reason not to own them, but to exchange them with someone who will have to keep up the units to certain specs if they want to continue in business. 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
dwhuston
Conservatives - The Abominable No Men
01:25 PM on 06/22/2013
Most of the lithium Ion and lithium polymer batteries will sustain over 2000 charges, and there if very little drop off as the charges accumulate. They are not anything like the old nicads and nickel metal hydrides.
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arguethefacts
10:54 AM on 06/22/2013
I like Tesla's but the comparison was somewhat disingenuous. They said the battery-operated gave the equivalent of 15 gallons of driving distance for the other car. But they said the other car was filling up at 10 gallons per minute and they filled it for 4:00+ minutes which meant they were filling a 40 gallon tank. For the equivalent 15 gallon driving range of the Tesla it would have taken one minute and thirty seconds of fuel time for the gas car. Seems to be equal time to replacing the battery pack. The Tesla is the better deal if one takes the 30 minutes to recharge if for free by relaxing a bit from driving, catching up on email, or getting something to eat while the car charges.

However, I applaud Tesla for being the most innovative battery-operated car. Now how about putting your batteries in a $15,000 Honda fit so there are electric cars people can afford.
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sharpstick
Jesus = The world's most famous liberal, socialist
11:46 AM on 06/22/2013
Agree. I was thinking the same.

Thx
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Aquest
No one here is exactly what they appear.
09:55 PM on 06/22/2013
since the batteries alone cost at least $15,000, it won't be happening soon.
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Bill Cumming
Tech guy. Ubuntu user, Scottish ^_^
10:42 AM on 06/22/2013
I think Tesla is thinking about the Long game here.

Currently a new battery for a Tesla S is around $17,000?

They are betting that the price of a new battery will fall to around $10,000 in the next 5-8 years with new technology improving the range of a EV So the "cost per mile per year" to "fuel" the vehicle will be coming closer to Petrol/Diesel based vehicle.

When that happens they will switch from a "Owner Battery" to a "Rental Battery" format.

Where the Tesla Owner pays $100 month to rent the battery plus the $40 swap-out but they drop the need for the owner to reclaim their "used" battery". effectively they get a new or re-conditioned battery every time they swap. The turnaround of batteries keeps them being used so they are not sitting in garages 3 days a week useless but keep the charge cycle going to maximise their lifespan.

Tesla can then put their weight behind battery reconditioning / recycling companies to bring the prices down further.
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Jim Marusak
free-agent meteorologist
09:31 PM on 06/22/2013
by this hot-swapping station idea, you don't think they're not going to go that route eventually? and last i heard tesla's looking at a $40k car by 2015. that's getting closer to reality, and near a lowe end bmw/mercedes or a mid-end audi/volvo. he's getting it there.
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Bill Cumming
Tech guy. Ubuntu user, Scottish ^_^
06:23 AM on 06/24/2013
it's more the resale / 2nd hand market I'm thinking of.

No one will buy a 2nd hand EV if the cost of a new battery in 3-4 years is nearly double the price they paid for the used car.

But with rental that problem is out the window and buying EV's second hand becomes an affordable option for average consumers.
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frank1946
Tell the Truth
10:30 AM on 06/22/2013
Hyrid Fusion gets 47 Mpg.

Tesla not economic yet.

Losing $ 35 K. per car shortens the Fuse.

Musk knows when to hold Em', when to fold Em' ?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jacksbloodyface
Apply reason and context to your thought process
01:09 PM on 06/22/2013
Model S with the 400hp motor gets 87 mpge? Battery swap is clearly at a cost premium, but energy efficiency of the vehicle is still significantly higher than anything else out there, except the short range electrics.
12:33 AM on 06/23/2013
Why not a hydrogen fusion engine? all they need to do is perfect the magnetic bottle and use high end quality internals. They could run it on water once they nail down the technology.
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Darcman
Don't B afraid of the Darc!
10:07 AM on 06/22/2013
Mr. Musk should concentrate on increasing the range on his cars!
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lcr999
scientist
10:48 PM on 06/22/2013
he just did.
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fbhfour
My flag is bigger than yours
07:54 AM on 06/22/2013
I love Tesla. Don't own one, would if it was practical ( I'm a contractor and live in a rural area )

What is great is the inovation of Mr. Musk. He just makes it happen.

I have driven a Tesla and it is un believable.

I read all of the comments by those that mock the Tesla and Mr. Musk and I can see them....... they are the same people who were on the dock screaming don't go Christopher the world is flat.
ItsGettingWeird
(or is it just me?)
12:59 PM on 06/23/2013
I remember when air bags were in the experimental stage, around 1970. It seemed like a goofball idea that would cost way too much. As far as I was concerned, good tires and a padded dashboard were more than enough to keep you safe. I mean, a balloon inside the steering wheel? And it inflates in a fraction of a second? Come on, that's ridiculous, isn't it?

So now, air bags have been standard equipment for years, even in the most basic economy cars. There are similar histories for most of the features that we take for granted today: tinted windows (dangerous at night), air conditioning (expensive, unnecessary), automatic transmissions (unreliable, expensive), power windows, seats, door locks (frivolous), and so on. This time, it is the electric drivetrain that is causing the commotion.

In time, we will all take the high-performance electric car for granted, even in basic economy cars.
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fbhfour
My flag is bigger than yours
01:40 PM on 06/23/2013
I agree.  It's just frustrating and entertaining to listen to the naysayers. 
Kind of like those that are fighting the new light bulbs. 
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
06:08 AM on 06/22/2013
I am a big fan of what Tesla does. With them nothing is impossible, instead of nervous hand wringing, they look for a better solution, they ask why not. If GM had that kind of conviction, we wouldn't have to worry about bailing them out every couple of years.

I went to a Chevy dealer to inquire about a chevy Volt about a year ago and I never saw a dealer try so hard to not sell me a car. I suspect that the real problem with these EV's is that they work too well in the eyes of the industries that have thrived on fueling and fixing internal combustion engines for the past century.
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Hunter3203
Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to b happy
07:52 AM on 06/22/2013
Tesla has been smart in that they've aimed their car at a market that can afford the true cost of a capable EV: $70,000+. No other automaker has an EV with a 200 mile range because they're trying to sell EVs to a larger market. But most consumers aren't willing to buy a car that has only a 70 mile range for a cost that's greater than a similar car that has a 300+ mile range. When you can buy an Accord sized EV that has a 300 mile range for $25k is when you'll see EVs become successful in the market place.
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arguethefacts
10:57 AM on 06/22/2013
Most people drive less than 40 miles per day. Weekends, even less.
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12:39 AM on 06/23/2013
I think when and if Tesla's prices come down from the stratosphere and they come up with a larger product line, we will have another major player in the car business. If they hold to their vision they can thrive, if they let a corporate can't do culture overrun the boardroom they will end up just like GM, struggling to survive because of their own penchant for mediocrity.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
DRaymond
Network administrator, voiceovers
02:39 AM on 06/22/2013
Trying to pencil out whether or not this is a money-losing proposition for Tesla.
They offer you to pre-buy a replacement battery eight years from now at $10,000.  Let's presume that is the lifespan and cost of the battery.  At $60 per swap that means that the battery would need to be sold once every 17.5 days.  But at that rate Nothing is contributed toward the half million dollar charging station, the cost of the electricity to recharge the battery, or the cost of the manpower to staff and maintain the station.  if we presume that $20 of the 60 has to go to operating expenses then it reduces the average necessary turn-around to 11.6 days but that still is doing nothing to pay for the half million dollar charging station.  if you want, say a 4 year break-even on that expense you will need to have a 5 day average turn-around on over 200 batteries up to a little over 400 batteries and a 10 day average turn around time.  Bear in mind that since owners are being expected to get their original batteries back you have to store them, not turn them around.
Now getting an average 10 day turn-around may seem easy, but note that you have to stock enough batteries to meet demand on the holidays.  If people can't get the replacement batteries when they really want to be traveling the whole program gets a terrible black eye.  So having enough batteries to meet demand on Thanksgiving or Memorial Day means you have a lot of them sitting idle the rest of the year.
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Christopher Larkins
02:00 AM on 06/22/2013
The car companies are already starting to get anxious in regards to EV. Also Telsa isn't just building and designing high end EV's they plan on releasing other types such as a Minivan etc.
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Hunter3203
Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to b happy
07:55 AM on 06/22/2013
The car companies are getting anxious about EVs because they're being forced to sell them and they're having a hard time finding customers.
09:21 AM on 06/22/2013
Suggestion: watch the documentary "Revenge of the Electric Car" which follows the development of the Leaf, Volt and Tesla cars. Tell me if the leaders of these companies look as if they are being "forced" to build their cars.

RE: "hard time finding customers". All major EV models - Leaf, MiEV, Volt, Tesla - are selling at rates comparable to any other average car model.

Volt, for example, sold over 30,000 cars in 2012. That's better that most (more than half) the car models for sale today.
01:24 PM on 06/22/2013
You are delusional....
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Twitchy Ferret
Free thinking, independent, ex-liberal.
12:32 AM on 06/22/2013
I can go over 700 miles on around 15 gallons of gas in my 70s turbo diesel Mercedes wagon... It gets anywhere from 45-60mpg depending how heavy my foot is. I can use biodiesel and it will only cost me about $1.50 a gallon depending on where I get my materials. And I don't get charged for not picking up my old gas on the return trip. I can also drive anywhere instead of "corridors"

Very few people realize that back at the end of the 1800s and early 1900s that electric cars were already around, and most of them still run on their original batteries unlike the modern electric cars that need eventual replacement. The "Detroit Electric" is probably the most notable one back in the early days of the automobile (it is a pretty neat little car). But they failed there for much the same reasons the EV-1 and others failed, they weren't easy, they weren't cheap; they just weren't as practical when compared to other options and consumer demand. What we really should be going for is something like a hydrogen electric car where it makes its own power without big expensive batteries and can be filled up cheaply and quickly, or even diesel generator hybrids as a start, something to ease the transition and use current infrastructure as much as possible.

The only thing standing in the way is cost to the consumer, the oil companies, and big auto companies.
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Hunter3203
Beer is proof God loves us and wants us to b happy
07:57 AM on 06/22/2013
I agree with much of what you said but the problem with hydrogen is it's just too expensive to make. Check out CNG and LNG. It's here, abundant, clean burning and will eventually become a choice for consumers.
11:20 AM on 06/22/2013
Most commercially available hydrogen is produced using natural gas.
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Twitchy Ferret
Free thinking, independent, ex-liberal.
06:39 PM on 06/22/2013
hunter,
That too. I have a buddy with an old CNG Ford crown vic government car. He rarely ever has to change the oil. I think the last time he changed the oil was about 25,000 miles and he said it came out as clean as it went in. The car has 350,000 miles on it and still nearly all original parts. The best part is that if he cannot find a CNG station he can still fill up with dino gas... Now that's a hybrid.
01:26 PM on 06/22/2013
Watch the documentary, " who killed the electric car?". The EV-1 didn't fail, it was killed off by big oil and the Car industry.
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Twitchy Ferret
Free thinking, independent, ex-liberal.
06:40 PM on 06/22/2013
Rich,

I have, that is why I said "The only thing standing in the way is cost to the consumer, the oil companies, and big auto companies." at the end of my post.