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spytheweb
Black Democrat
08:19 PM on 01/07/2010
So what? Americans don't care about Iranians or Iraqis or Afghans.

Blackwater kills 17 civilians at high noon and walks out of court free, what's worst?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ajita
08:24 PM on 01/07/2010
Do you people keep crawling out of spin aley? This is not about Americans. This is not about Iraqis. This is not about Afghans. This is not about Blackwater. This is about helping the oppressed people of Iran by bringing attention to the atrocities committed by their brutal government.
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brooklyncitizen
Soror quaerens lucem
09:14 PM on 01/07/2010
Wrong. This is about creating an image of Iran that will make any aggression towards Iran acceptable in the public's mind. It is disgusting and dishonest.

Yes this was a horrible act, as was Abu Gahraib and the murder of 3 Afghani children at US hands each day.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Dnietz
politics is obsolete
10:00 PM on 01/07/2010
i agree with brooklyncitizen

where you are wrong is that the iranian people don't really want your help. they want some attention and recognition for what is going on, but that is mostly so that when they do overthrow the tyranny, they want to be taken immediately as the legitimate new democratic government.

their efforts are just to inform and communicate with the world. they don't want any outside "help". ask any iranian that is not a "pro-monarchist". no one on either side wants outsider interference, even if it is called help.

if you are interested, just read up and keep up. they don't need advocacy from any westerners. they are going to take care of their own business.
09:37 PM on 01/07/2010
So what? That's your response to a man run over by the police for dare speaking his mind? Do you often hurah police brutality?
07:04 PM on 01/07/2010
Don't go a gunfight carrying a sign.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Dnietz
politics is obsolete
10:03 PM on 01/07/2010
tell that to the indians that kicked out the british

a million of them were slaughtered by the british, but they won eventually without resorting to atrocities themselves

and now, they have the world's largest democracy. and it is successful.

how do you think it affects indian national culture and the history they teach their children to be able to say that they fought for freedom with shear will power and did not resort to bloodshed.
06:57 PM on 01/07/2010
I wonder what the mighty and macho Scotty in Phoenix would do in this situation. He seems to have all the answers so I want to know what the answer is.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
JennieB
06:52 PM on 01/07/2010
What does having a wife and child have to do with being run over by the police? Is his life more valuable than someone who is single and/or childless? I don't think so.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ajita
08:28 PM on 01/07/2010
Of course not, but this makes him more of a martyr for the people of Iran to coalesce under. Also, yes, his life is more valuable. He is leaving behind more suffering than if he'd been single. I say this as an unmarried man with no children. My life will be a lot more valuable if I had people depending on me, and if I had more people who loved me who'd be devastated if I died.
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brooklyncitizen
Soror quaerens lucem
09:15 PM on 01/07/2010
His life is more valuable than a single person?
are you serious????
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ajita
08:29 PM on 01/07/2010
In the first part, I meant of course him having a wife and child has little to do with him being run over by police.
06:49 PM on 01/07/2010
And Barack thught her could reason with these people just because his middle name is Hussein.
09:01 PM on 01/07/2010
***And Barack thught her could reason with these people just because his middle name is Hussein***

Well it obviously must be working, because the Iranian public have gone from burning US flags and effigies of Shrub to openly showing dissent towards their own government. That's what happens when you present a reasonable face to a country instead of a dumb "they are evil" slogan.
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brooklyncitizen
Soror quaerens lucem
09:17 PM on 01/07/2010
Well maybe the US shouldn't have engineered a coup agians a Democratic Iran in the mid-20th century to install the despot Shah as the leader - Americans weren't outraged at what the Shah did to his people; he was a "friend".
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ajita
09:38 PM on 01/07/2010
And here we go again, always making it about America.
06:39 PM on 01/07/2010
Where is Obama on this? Oh yeah, ignoring it, while supporting an attempted marist coup in Honduras.

Oh well, thats our Obambi, if its bad for America he is for it, if it is good for individual freedom he's against it.

Like he says, "respect Islam".

Got a love that ShObama!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
edgarcaycedoc
07:42 PM on 01/07/2010
And Showbama is eclipsed by the Mouth in phoenix.
08:06 PM on 01/07/2010
Yet, when Bush did the very same things (crushing individual rights, and harming the nation as a whole) that was all right?
06:17 PM on 01/07/2010
Is their video of American tanks and Blackwater doing that to civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan?
06:34 PM on 01/07/2010
When you can prove that please post the link.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ajita
06:35 PM on 01/07/2010
Again, out of context. This is about a tyrannical government cracking down of peaceful dissent among THEIR OWN PEOPLE by using murder to scare others into remaining subservient. American atrocities are an entirely different matter. They are just as inexcusable, but those incidents certainly cannot be used to justify this sort crackdown by the Iranian government. Something tells me that the family of this man are not exactly using the existence of American military brutality to excuse this. This is an Iranian affair, so do not bring the US military conflicts around the world into this to muddle things.
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brooklyncitizen
Soror quaerens lucem
09:18 PM on 01/07/2010
He is not justifying it. He is pointing out that it is being politicized.What are you a govt employee?
10:32 PM on 01/07/2010
the usa does it out of boredom or?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnAnpJaZ97I
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
GermanGoodness
My micro-bio is empty. Go figure.
06:15 PM on 01/07/2010
Peace be with you, Shahram. My condolences to your family for the cruelty they have endured, not just for your death but the abhorrent way your government denied your right to mourn.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Okieborn
Equal Rights For All !
06:08 PM on 01/07/2010
Shameless !!
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05:49 PM on 01/07/2010
horrible.
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Zonie
Right & Left are part of a whole. Divided we die.
05:33 PM on 01/07/2010
Don't let this sort of stuff lead to another slaughter... We don't need to be liberating anyone else....

Don't let the powers that be convince you all this needs to be destroyed....

http://www.lucasgray.com/video/peacetrain.swf
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ajita
05:54 PM on 01/07/2010
You're projecting. No one is going to use this as a reason to attack Iran. This must and will be used, however, to make the Iranian public stand up against the tyranny in their government.
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Zonie
Right & Left are part of a whole. Divided we die.
07:03 PM on 01/07/2010
Right....like they didn't when we were bombarded with the same stuff taking place in Iraq......and all the way over a hundred years......when we "liberated" the phillipines.

“There is the case of the Philippines. I have tried hard, and yet I cannot for the life of me comprehend how we got into that mess. Perhaps we could not have avoided it — perhaps it was inevitable that we should come to be fighting the natives of those islands — but I cannot understand it, and have never been able to get at the bottom of the origin of our antagonism to the natives. I thought we should act as their protector — not try to get them under our heel. We were to relieve them from Spanish tyranny to enable them to set up a government of their own, and we were to stand by and see that it got a fair trial. It was not to be a government according to our ideas, but a government that represented the feeling of the majority of the Filipinos, a government according to Filipino ideas. That would have been a worthy mission for the United States. But now — why, we have got into a mess, a quagmire from which each fresh step renders the difficulty of extrication immensely greater. I'm sure I wish I could see what we were getting out of it, and all it means to us as a nation.”

Mark Twain

Sound familiar?
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Zonie
Right & Left are part of a whole. Divided we die.
07:15 PM on 01/07/2010
No one needs to MAKE them stand up......give them the freedom to decide when themselves.
06:47 PM on 01/07/2010
Fortunately the choice isn't just between war and peace, and a US war would be a war crime. There's a movement in motion to bring the the lousy IRI government to heel. Look at those pictures and ask yourself, how wouldn't these people be better off by having free expression and free press?
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Zonie
Right & Left are part of a whole. Divided we die.
07:06 PM on 01/07/2010
That is their choice.

We need to stay out of it.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Dnietz
politics is obsolete
10:23 PM on 01/07/2010
there is nothing anyone outside can do against the iranian government except war

they can bomb the country tactically and deal with retaliation or they can go all out war on iran killing millions

iranian government is doing business with china, russia, brasil, venezuela and some others. those countries don't care one bit what they usa or europe wants. they are doing business for their own good.

the only real weak spot the iranian government has is internal uprising, which is why they are so harsh and cruel to their own people. their own people are the biggest threat
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Zonie
Right & Left are part of a whole. Divided we die.
05:27 PM on 01/07/2010
http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area-news/ci_13687923

http://wcco.com/crime/taser.neck.minneapolis.2.1287716.html

http://www.kirotv.com/news/21438209/detail.html

Name the agency collecting statistics regarding innocent folks killed in the USA by police.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ajita
05:57 PM on 01/07/2010
You don't seem to understand the importance of context. Of course the cops kill innocent people all the time, although there is much more accountability here on this. The issue here is not police brutality, but government suppression of peaceful dissent by extremely violent means. Name one American killed simply for peacefully protesting against the government in recent years..
06:46 PM on 01/07/2010
Great post, I don't think she really understands the severity of the oppression served by this government and what these people are going through on a daily basis.
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Zonie
Right & Left are part of a whole. Divided we die.
06:50 PM on 01/07/2010
Jeffrey Glenn Miller; 20, shot through the mouth - killed instantly
Allison B. Krause; 19, fatal left chest wound
William Knox Schroeder; 19, fatal chest wound
Sandra Lee Scheuer; 20, fatal neck wound

Oh........sorry.......they weren't protesting at all.....

Not forgotten.
06:30 PM on 01/07/2010
I'm assuming that you don't like police repression. Therefore what would help Americans is exactly the move away from the methodology of IRI- i.e., more transparency, more civil rights, and more police accountability. Were you trying to make a point?
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Zonie
Right & Left are part of a whole. Divided we die.
07:14 PM on 01/07/2010
Just hypocrisy of own...
05:08 PM on 01/07/2010
God bless the Iranian people. May they have freedom of speech and freedom of religion very soon!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ajita
05:58 PM on 01/07/2010
More importantly, may they have freedom of speech and freedom FROM religion.
06:17 PM on 01/07/2010
Ajita... you said it... freedom of speech and freedom FROM religion.
06:22 PM on 01/07/2010
Fanned!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Beka13
Veni vidi vici
04:55 PM on 01/07/2010
So sad! I think I might have to change my icon back to green in memory of this young father.

Rule by the sword die by the sword.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
RogerHWerner
04:54 PM on 01/07/2010
What confuses me is why such behavior is viewed as surprising. Iran's government sent waves of children as martyrs into Iraqi landmines and machine guns to be killed by the tends of thousands. The revolution was horribly bloody at the behest of religious leaders. The government is run by creatures one step above animals and anyone expecting them to behave civilly towards there own people is delusional. Few governments treat their citizenry with respect (the US isn't perfect but these days our record is far above that of Iran). The Iranian government has the nefarious honor of being near the bottom of the barrel. If the Iranian people want change, they are going to need to die en masse...or they can chose to die alone and be forgotten. Protesters can arm themselves...if not with guns with clubs, gas in spray bottles, Molotov cocktails, pitchforks, knives, and or roadside or suicide bombs, or, whatever...they don't have be pointlessly murdered so they can claim the high moral ground. They aren't going to take their government back without force and the sooner the Green Movement understands this the better off the country will be. The Iranian government from their religious leaders down to the lowest militiamen is occupied by bottom dwelling troglodytes who don't understand reason. Hang a few dozen militiamen from lamp posts to give the government as idea that the party is just beginning. The time for mere protesting is long over.
06:22 PM on 01/07/2010
I applaud you. You make sense to me. I hope they rise up and start to do exactly what you stated above. You don't see too many people on this website that would agree with your analysis of the Iranian Government or what the Green Movement needs to know and do to gain their freedom from the tyrants that rule that country. The green movement needs the verbal acknowledgment of the United States President and the leaders of other free western nations to give them hope and the will to push on with their cause. Read some of the idiotic posts of the selfish Americans on this site. They have the freedoms these people dream of and mock the US Government in its attempt to spread democracy throughout the world. Oh but we are interfering with the will of the people of these Islamic nations. What I see in these protests is "the will of the Iranian people". As you stated the US Government is not perfect and sometimes steps on the feet and hands of its own people. But not to the extent that the Iranian government and many other governments around the world. When that does happen in the US it is normally fixed through the judicial system. We are not perfect but we are free.
06:25 PM on 01/07/2010
RogerHWerner,

Very good post and unfortunately you are correct.