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ThankGodhesgone
Always Progressive and loving the CONs meltdown.
12:15 AM on 04/12/2010
Amazing that the catholic church would trot out this merchandise at the same time the sexual molestation charges and coverups are coming to light.

Are they still clinging to the hope that the pious and believers will somehow forget all of this by being bedazzled by an artifact that even the church will not admit as genuine?

Next, a peice of the cross will be found, or maybe Jesus' bones.
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oregon bird
01:22 AM on 04/12/2010
I would LOVE them to announce Jesus' bones! It would be even better than the announcement that the mysterious third revelation, feared and clutched close to the wrinkled bosoms of pope after pope, was the attempted assassination of... whoever was wearing the bonnet at the time.

Clunk.

We're laughing at you, Ratzy, not with you.
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11:45 PM on 04/11/2010
I had just replicated the image found on the shroud onto a piece of toast.

I quickly shot a picture to post on eBay and make myself rich.

But my wife put peanut butter on it and ate it.
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11:34 PM on 04/11/2010
Make one yourself here;

http://www.physorg.com/news4652.html
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Sacchinftw
Isn't it sad...?
11:36 PM on 04/11/2010
Thank you for that article. I remember reading something to that effect in passing but didn't remember enough of it to search with any results.
11:38 PM on 04/11/2010
But the headline is misleading. The experiment proved in no manner that the actual shroud is fake. The article states that the researchers believe they can explain how the shroud could have been made. They can't prove that it was made like that. Your reference to this article is a fundamental error in logic: post hoc, propter hoc.
11:42 PM on 04/11/2010
Furthermore, the language of the article makes one wonder whether we are dealing with pure science here. Its authors states, for example, that the Archbishop in Turin had to "admit" (sic) the shroud is fake. The insinuation here is that the Archbishop had previously claimed it was authentic, which he never had.
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Sacchinftw
Isn't it sad...?
11:42 PM on 04/11/2010
But the experiment in question did manage to prove that it was possible and that if it were an actual person placed in the shroud (the ammoniac compound and cream of aloe), it wouldn't create the shroud that we see now.
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Harlanlover
I Have No Mouth & I Must Scream
11:19 PM on 04/11/2010
Still a fake.
11:33 PM on 04/11/2010
I imagine somebody in the 15th century saying about the earth: "still flat."
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Sacchinftw
Isn't it sad...?
11:48 PM on 04/11/2010
Imagine somebody in the 21st century saying about God: "still real."
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Ergon
Man From Atlan
10:59 PM on 04/11/2010
Professional skeptics have been caught flat out falsifying the evidence. There WAS blood on the shroud, and not paint, and the 'distinctive herringbone weave' has been found in pre-christian digs at Alexandria, Antioch, and Celtic locations, and the carbon dating was revealed to have been done on newer portions of the shroud but they keep going on with their pre-ordained rants.
Pathethic, eally.
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Sacchinftw
Isn't it sad...?
11:22 PM on 04/11/2010
Why won't the Catholic Church allow for a sample be taken from the older portions for carbon dating? What do they have to lose?
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11:29 PM on 04/11/2010
"What do they have to lose?"

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Ergon
Man From Atlan
11:23 AM on 04/12/2010
Providing a platform for anti-Catholic bashers? The way the labs 'findings' was presented seemed as though Richard Dawkins was directing the BBC episode.
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oregon bird
01:17 AM on 04/12/2010
Any teabagger will tell you that there is SO a Kenyan birth certificate. There are RC bishops who absolutely deny the Holocaust. Hundreds of thousands of hardline muslims know that their prophet married a 7-year old child, which therefore set the marriageable age of girls. Evangelical xians believe in witchcraft, because the bible tells them so.

And you believe that scientists from multiple universities, working within ethical guidelines and with the world looking over their shoulders, submitted their research to the Vatican (which did not dispute the findings) and to their peers for review, had their protocols examined and their findings tooth-combed, received accolades for their work -- and somehow got away with lying. Because everyone everywhere doesn't like the most wide-spread, well-known and (at the time) practiced religion in the Western Hemisphere.

That's entirely sane. Really.
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SiameseTrainer
...we are Sia..mese if you don't please..
02:32 AM on 04/12/2010
And how dare YOU compare the enlightenment of science with the embalming shroud of belief?
10:23 PM on 04/11/2010
Pay no attention to the preverts behind the curtain. Look we have sacred piece of cloth. Crowd reaction: "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH. What sex scandals?"
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Ergon
Man From Atlan
11:03 PM on 04/11/2010
Pay no attention to the Randians behind the curtain, either. He revealed a lot recently about his pre-ordained animus against religion, and its nice to see his Skeptics Empire dancing around that too while spamning this blog.
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Harlanlover
I Have No Mouth & I Must Scream
11:22 PM on 04/11/2010
Jesus Christ is a fictional character.
This piece of cloth is a fake.
It has nothing to do w/ James Rand. Or spam.
It has everything to do w/ facts.
It's such shame that people need spooks, lies & spaghetti monsters to get through their lives.
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theophagousmonkey
11:54 PM on 04/11/2010
You sound like a fairly articulate homo sapiens (and yes, the 's' belongs there). But hey, the 'shroud' is a piece of cloth with no connection whatsoever to textile technologies of the relevant time. Which means, if you still need to cling to the thing, that Jesus was a time traveler from the future with a death wish - or perhaps a terminal disease - who transported back in time in order to get himself hung up on a cross-section of rough timber and warehoused in a damp cave for a few days in oder to later have an old beach towel with the image of his rotting corpse show up in a medieval villa in Italy. Totally makes sense.

Cheers,

Theo, just another theophagous monkey.

By the way, I've prayed on the subject at length and I can tell you with no uncertainty whatsoever that Jesus lied. He doesn't love you. He doesn't even know who you are. And he's never, ever, coming back for you. He moved on, and so should you.
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10:19 PM on 04/11/2010
When the flocks belief in the church begins to wane drag out the flag and wave it around. The damage the pedi priests have done will take centuries to repair, too little to late your Popeship.
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11:21 PM on 04/11/2010
It wreaks of "distraction", "look over here!" or "Oh, look, a bear".
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Pyfagorus
I'm here, I'm Dear... get used to it!!
10:00 PM on 04/11/2010
This sacred cloth is truly an amazing and holy relic. And you can barely even see the brush strokes.
09:34 PM on 04/11/2010
But experts stand by carbon-dating of scraps of the cloth that determine the linen was made in the 13th or 14th century in a kind of medieval forgery. That testing didn't explain how the image of the shroud – of a man with wounds similar to those suffered by Christ – was formed"

Really? The testing well explains the image - it's a fake used to dupe people into believing the myth that a man was brutally tortured, hung on a cross, died on that cross then rose from his burial tomb three days later.
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realpolitik78
wake me up when its over
10:26 PM on 04/11/2010
they still aren't sure how it was made. read up on it, its pretty interesting.
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theophagousmonkey
11:56 PM on 04/11/2010
"its pretty interesting"

No, it's not.
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Zombeaver
Wooooooooooooood . . .
09:00 PM on 04/11/2010
Just one of the many money making attractions brought to you by the Church.
08:18 PM on 04/11/2010
If the shroud is real then it would seem that God has violated his own law about creating images of the divine.
11:28 PM on 04/11/2010
There is no such law. In Exodus, God tells the Jews to make images of angels, etc. Where do you get such ideas??
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oregon bird
01:41 AM on 04/12/2010
"You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

And that's just part of the first commandment. Those two tablets must have been MASSIVE!
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anelder
08:10 PM on 04/11/2010
Didn't have to dive deep into these comments to see the concensus of 'knowledge' here. Positive statements of facts, it's a fake.

On the other side only the extremists seem to be positive it's the real thing.

The rest of us, including the church, makes no such positive or negative statements.

So if all this is just opinions being expressed, the intelligent among us all would voice it as either an opinion or belief. Yes we can believe something we cannot prove. But believing should not put us in the conversation as stating facts. Neither should disbelieving.
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08:33 PM on 04/11/2010
The crucial point of proof/evidence is that a "proof" is testable. The statement; "the shroud is a mediaeval item" is testable and provable.

The fence sitting you advocate helps people rationalise something for which there's no need to remain deluded about.
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Zombeaver
Wooooooooooooood . . .
08:58 PM on 04/11/2010
Ditto. The middleground is the home of the timid uninformed.
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anelder
10:59 PM on 04/11/2010
Since the carbon dating has admittedly, by many in the testing community, be done on areas that were mended the proof of the whole cloth being midieval. Hence the fence sitting business I often find myself in when proof doesn't exist yet.

If there were no doubts, my sitting days would be over. Your lack of delusion is simply a lack of knowledge.
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theophagousmonkey
12:00 AM on 04/12/2010
anelder wrote: "Yes we can believe something we cannot prove."

Theo writes...huh? Whuh? So we can state as fact things we don't know are facts? Hey Cool! Santa owes me a motorcycle!

Cheers,

Theo, just another theophagous monkey
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Ergon
Man From Atlan
07:49 PM on 04/11/2010
Link: http://greatshroudofturinfaq.com/index.html
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anelder
11:01 PM on 04/11/2010
Thanks for the article. Explains my sitting on the fence status.

fanned
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Ergon
Man From Atlan
07:48 PM on 04/11/2010
Anti-religionists may make all the unsupported allegations they want, but "In 1988, the Shroud was carbon dated. It was determined, then, that the cloth was medieval. Hence it was declared a forgery. But, twenty years later, in 2008, Philip Ball, the former physical science editor for Nature, the acclaimed, peer-reviewed, international scientific journal that published the carbon dating results, wrote an interesting piece in Nature Online. He is writing as a scientist only:

It's fair to say that, despite the seemingly definitive tests in 1988, the status of the Shroud of Turin is murkier than ever. Not least, the nature of the image and how it was fixed on the cloth remain deeply puzzling"

It's interesting that religious people have room for ambiguity in their belief systems, while atheists behave like witch burning zealots these days.
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08:26 PM on 04/11/2010
...in the end, it is still just a dirty old rag...
09:37 PM on 04/11/2010
Witch buring zealots? Really? Religious people have, for centuries, tortured, maimed and killed those who wouldn't follow their religions. Atheists (or even those who would side with science) call the shroud a forger and they are lumped into the same kind of fervor that religious people have? Are you serious?
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Pleneras
10:03 PM on 04/11/2010
Agora. The movie is a good example of zealots killing people who do not believe. They were the madmen and still are.
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realpolitik78
wake me up when its over
10:28 PM on 04/11/2010
she probably is considering that millions have been murdered in the name of atheism - some Russian priests were even given hot lead communions and crucified. Human beings are human beings - vicious atheist or not.
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DougSmith
What isn't potentially sensitive?
07:44 PM on 04/11/2010
1.5 million people want to see this proven fake.

How pathetic and sad...
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ZiloRS
08:03 PM on 04/11/2010
Why would you want to see it proven true?

I don't believe in it at all, but I have nothing invested in it either way. It's just another holy grail for religious people. And we already know they tend to see what they want no matter what the facts say.
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anelder
11:06 PM on 04/11/2010
Sorry Doug your behind the proof bit.

http://greatshroudofturinfaq.com/index.html

check it out