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02:05 PM on 04/15/2010
Its time for the authorities to go after the pedophile priests and the bishops and pope that have conspired to aid and abet criminal acts. Can the RICO act be applied, lots gold there!
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jalapeno
Atheist and lovin' it!
12:32 PM on 04/15/2010
How about requiring Alter boys to be 18 and over? Won't that help the problem??
11:26 PM on 04/15/2010
Only if you assume that Priests only have access to alter boys. Not letting pedophiles into the priesthood and removing those that have intercourse with children, might be a better way.
11:54 AM on 04/15/2010
You should not be able to tell the difference between a gay priest and a heterosexual priest. Celibate is celibate!
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BeninOakland
Don't tell me you love me. Let me guess.
11:48 AM on 04/15/2010
Part 3:

4) Ordination is a sacrament. I believe that a priest can only be
ordained by a bishop. A bishop is further up in the Church hierarchy, and is
thus closer to the Fount. (The Pope is officially God's Viceroy on Earth,
about as high as you can go). So, a gay bishop, who can only be ordained by
another bishop? What is God saying here? A bishop, acting on God's will, is
conferring a sacrament, a sign of God's love, on someone who is
intrinsically, morally, evil and disordered, according to the church. And
let's not get into this stuff about momentary lapses and fallible human
beings. A gift from God is not a fallibility. Being gay has not ever been a
momentary lapse, which even the Church admits. Either the Church's process
is unable to distinguish God's clear will, or the Church hasn't a clue of
what God's will is. Or maybe the Church really doesn't have much to do with
God at all, but just represents itself.
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PatA
whatcha gonna do when they come for you
02:02 PM on 04/15/2010
Benin, fanned.
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Godfearing
Personhood Amendment Now!
02:26 PM on 04/15/2010
Agree 100% - with Fanned Benin! I never can understand when a Catholic supporter says well there are gays and pedophiles in other churches, Boy Scouts, etc. Does that make it ok in the Catholic Church?
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333888999
JCPenney-Retired
02:28 PM on 04/15/2010
God is saying to you, Benin, here: Put no strange gods before me. Dont ever buy in to the Pharisees. When they perform criminals acts such as "aiding and abetting serial child sex abuse including rape" serve them up to the civil authority. My aunt Ruth was exactly where you are. She could have wrote your text. What a surprise she got when, looking into the face of God, she found out that God did give a damn about her stock portfolio....the only thing in my awareness she ever prayeed for.
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BeninOakland
Don't tell me you love me. Let me guess.
11:47 AM on 04/15/2010
Part 2:
We must conclude then that God is calling gay men and pedophiles to the priesthood,
that they must have a favored place in church and society. Apparently, God
does not share the church's view on homosexuality or pedophilia. as the Church itself is
certifying that these people have the gift from God. To then condemn gay
people as intrinsically, morally disordered, and not worthy to receive the
sacrament of marriage to another of God's children, is either rank hypocrisy
or stupefying blindness. Their certification process, which leads to
ordination, is clearly meaningless, because either it cannot recognize God's
clear message, or it is completely bogus. To claim any authority, let alone
a place as the sole interpreter of what God wants for humans, especially gay
people, is ludicrous.

3) Celibacy is also a gift from God. Apparently, some people get lumps of coal in their celibacy stockings
04:36 PM on 04/15/2010
I hope at least the author can make sense of point 2.

Point 3 is very true. Having lumps of coal is ones stocking applies to all humans.
That is why we are human.
"Let him without sin cast the first stone."
This also applies to the CC; who condemns the sin but not the sinner.
Condemning a sinner is only for God.
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BeninOakland
Don't tell me you love me. Let me guess.
04:55 PM on 04/15/2010
The point, rad, is that according to the church itself, god is calling child molesters to the priesthood. good is calling gay men to the priesthood. Makesd you wonder about god or the church or both.
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BeninOakland
Don't tell me you love me. Let me guess.
11:44 AM on 04/15/2010
GardenerNorCal-- get ready for a bit more surprise.

the Church knows that a significant number of its priesthood is homosexual, a condition it no longer
considers morally neutral, and that a significant percentage of those
priests are sexually active. The Pope calls homosexuality an intrinsic moral
evil, something mostly immutable and inherent.

1) These people who have intrinsic moral evil-- and I don't believe any
other sin has ever achieved that status, flying as it does in the face of
everything I have ever read about the nature of sin and free will-- are
handling the Blood and Body of Jesus with the Church's knowledge and
blessing. They are also dispensing the other sacraments, especially the
sacrament of marriage, which the Church feels is not a gift from God to all
of his children, but only the ones the church has decided are worthy of it.

2) One does not become a priest by seeing the Holy Recruiter down at the
mall, thinking that it looks like a good job, and filling out an
application. To become a priest one must have a vocation, literally a
calling to God, which is a charisma, a gift from God. Without this, one
CANNOT be a priest. The church goes through a lengthy process to ascertain
that candidates do have a genuine vocation, because many do not. The
candidate must go through a tremendous amount of religious and psychological
evaluation. And only after that may they be ordained.
11:25 AM on 04/15/2010
Enough analyzing what the cause is, since the "church" has shown little inclination to change in 2000 years. How about we start throwing some asses in prison. Then once the pedos are out of the churches we can all sit down and talk sbout what went wrong.
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Jimboy17
03:01 PM on 04/15/2010
I think we need to turn the church over to its parishoners, let them guide themselves, and sell off the fancy schmancy to do GOOD in the world.
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ManuOB1
A voice crying in the wilderness
10:58 AM on 04/15/2010
"No one puts new wine into old wineskins..." (Mark 2:22) Martin Luther, come home!
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bnyb
sky-gazer
10:37 AM on 04/15/2010
A good article on the subject: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/10/us/10beliefs.html?scp=6&sq=oppenheimer&st=cse
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sooz154
10:10 AM on 04/15/2010
Good God, this dance around and through sexual matters by a CELIBATE patriarchial construct is EXHAUSTING!!! As a childless adult, I resent the implication that I'm incapable of knowing how to parent. I guess the same distinction should apply to priests and their ability to counsel in the arena of sex. But so many priests are HYSTERICAL on this subject...that's smoke AND fire!

I appreciate the Reverend's clarification(s) here but he's working VERY hard to get it right. Sexual orientation of ANY kind does not guarantee a patent on morality any more than a perceived deviation from "the norm" condemns one to hell (so take that "love the sinner, hate the sin crap" and shove it...thanks very much). The PERVERSION here is the church's inability to give sex its due (an epidemic in American culture, too!). Sample your garden variety pedophile and you'll find a serious break somewhere, threads of abuse physical and psychological. And for some, simply a mental illness that cannot process anything more complicated than eat, sleep, sh*t, f*ck.

Surprise, the church has been caught AGAIN being two-faced about sex! Perhaps if the Jesuits were running the Catholic Church, some of us would return. Probably not...it would take the inclusion of women in the priesthood and ALL priests being allowed to BE sexual creatures, out in the open (consider it job training!), to convince many that the church can be anything but an open wound when it comes to this subject.
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Jimboy17
10:25 AM on 04/15/2010
Agreed.
12:22 PM on 04/15/2010
Agreed x 2.
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harmonikasavingsbonds
Standard?Nonsense! I DEMAND an automatic poodle!
09:27 AM on 04/15/2010
So does this mean that if they succeed in once again blaming the gays for their perceived sexual dysfunction will allow your people to keep scre wing our children?

Is this how it works? We need to be told this is how it all works for you religionists.
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flyovermark
...Obamacare is tyranny...
11:05 AM on 04/15/2010
Wonder how public schoolteachers stack up against the priesthood on the subject of pedophilia? We need to be told this is how it all works for you secularists...
12:21 PM on 04/15/2010
Your question misses the point. The issue to consider is how public school administrators' response to these incidents stacks up against the Church heirarchy's response. I have no statistics to back this up, but I surmise the proportion of such teachers that get protected, that get moved to another school district and allowed to go on teaching, is much lower than the proportion of priests who got such protection.
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Peddler
Peddler of Information
08:55 AM on 04/15/2010
Being reared as a Roman Catholic and achieving an Catholic education, including undergraduate and graduate school, I'm perplex to even conceive that "gay priests" are still allowed to remain in the preisthood----which would confer to me that the Church supports homosexuality----which would be contradictory to its teaching. No profession is perfect, and there is good in evil in all profession. But here in the article---------you are splitting "hairs"------based on psychology and psychiatrists-----which I firmly believe are more flawed then their patients. You can't have your cake and eat it too------It is morally wrong and pathetic to engage in such behavior-------and you don't have to be a psychologist or psychiatrists to see the evidence. I think that the Church is in denial about these issues. Reason as you wish--------this is not morally acceptable----either in part or whole.
12:44 PM on 04/15/2010
It is your opinions that is morally wrong and pathetic.
pamela18335
Ignorance can be fixed; stupid is incurable
01:42 PM on 04/15/2010
Peddler, regardless of your claimed education credentials, I believe your comment speaks loudly of your own bias. The Church teaches, I believe, that it is the ACTIVITY that arises out of the sexual orientation, not the orientation itself, that is the "sin". A celibate homosexual has no more committed a "sin" than a celibate, unmarried heterosexual.

And there is a huge difference between a homosexual and a pedophile: Homosexuality is gender based; pedophilia is age based, making no distinction between the genders. While both males and females were sexually molested, the greater number of males speaks to the fact that the pederast priests had far more access to young men than to young women. Think altar boys, sports teams, etc. Groups of young females were supervised by the nuns, thereby restricting the opportunity for unlimited one-on-one access by those priests.

The Church is now attempting (yet again) to minimize the degree of the sexual abuse scandal, this time by citing the "technical definition of pedophilia" (adult sexual preference for prepubescents), thus trying to ignore or sweep hebophilic (adult sexual preference for early pubescents) and ephebophilic (adult sexual preference for mid-to-late adolescents) priestly activity under the rug. This is where the true hair-splitting is occurring.

It's sad to note that your undergraduate and graduate schooling did not result in an independent thought process.....
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Dr. Susan Corso
omnifaith spiritual expert
08:29 AM on 04/15/2010
It is pathetic that the Church needs a scapegoat for the perpetrators of sexual abuse. The Church IS the perpetrator.
10:17 AM on 04/15/2010
No, the actual perpetrators and their supporters are the perpetrators. The church is not the perpetrator. how you libs love to blame the entire structure for every ill that comes.
12:46 PM on 04/15/2010
The entire structure is the reason that these reprehensible behaviours have been allowed to go on for so long and have been hidden for so long.
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AnotherAndy
Justice for Trayvon
06:42 PM on 04/16/2010
When people say The Church, they don't mean every Catholic. They mean the leadership, the leadership that supported the perpetrators, starting with the pope, and every arch bishop, bishop, monsignor, or priest who knew or suspected but didn't alert civil authorities.

From the John Jay College of Criminal Justice report , commissioned by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops:

A paramount concern for all involved with the study has been the determination of the prevalence of the problem in the Catholic Church in the United States. The survey responses make it clear that the problem was indeed widespread and affected more than 95% of dioceses and approximately 60% of religious communities.
http://www.bishop-accountability.org/reports/2004_02_27_JohnJay/#prev2

When a cancer reaches 95% of your body, you're already dead.
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Jimboy17
10:29 AM on 04/15/2010
I would agree. And further, I would posit that the church, as the center of thousands of communities world-wide has been perpetuating this terrible phenomenon for centuries. The ground of abuse is the source of potential abusers. I think the church has as much to answer for the institutional epidemic of child sexual abuse world wide as it does for the individual cases.

Unfortunatley, when you look at it from an institutional perspective, only the church has the history and the reach to be a major player in this terrible social dysfunction.
08:28 AM on 04/15/2010
The sentence in the Catholic Reporter that is dumb is that just because men do homosexual acts with boys, does NOT mean that they have a homosexual identity. So it means that just because one is having gay sex, it does not mean that they are gay! In short, when it is convenient, men having sex with men is PROOF of being gay, but when one has gay sex with boys, it is NOT proof of being gay.

So I guess that Roy Cohn was not gay, even though he had gay sex most of his life. he swore to the end he was NOT gay. Let's get REAL!
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Gudrun
My micro-bio is empty
09:28 AM on 04/15/2010
Pedophilia is not gay sex. Roy Cohn having sex with another consenting adult male, THAT would be gay sex.
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10:08 AM on 04/15/2010
Quite often pedophiles will be indiscriminant in their selection of a victim; it's often about availability.

Like rape, pedophilia is first and foremost about control.

And who is easiest to control - adults or children? Children.
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nikanj
free the fnords
10:53 PM on 04/16/2010
Pedophilia is first a foremost a feeding technique,
allowing adults intimate access to children's energy.
The control part is rooted in the need to maintain that access,
in order to prevent the predator from suffering hunger.

There are very good reasons the words 'predator' and 'prey' are used in this context.
07:43 AM on 04/15/2010
Is it just me -or do the same articles seem to be recycled as "headlines"?