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05:42 PM on 04/28/2010
I forgot that being a linguist automatically qualifies you to know what you're talking about in the context of international politics.

This is a great narrative focusing solely on the Palestinian perspective. However it fails to place any blame on corrupt Palestinian leadership, terrorist tactics, Hamas' refusing to accept conditions set by the international community and additional problems. Not to mention Hamas' overall goal of establishing an Islamic theocracy in all of Israel/Palestine. Why are these things overlooked in what is a very lopsided article? Chomsky speaks of Gaza's economy falling to tatters, but fails to mention intentional destruction by Gazans of functional greenhouses purchased by the international community, among other essential economic engines.

All Chomsky did here was push two sides further apart. How about writing something to bring both sides together? Neither Israel, the Palestinians or any country that has been involved is innocent. The ONLY role we should play is ask that of a facilitator for discussion. Being Middle East peace dictators has not worked since the start.

Let's focus on bringing people together and letting them discuss their differences, learning each others perspectives and seeing the other human side, rather than stoking the fires that contribute to this cycle of violence. No matter what document is potentially signed, it is the people on the ground who have to accept it on BOTH sides. That is where our peace efforts need to focus. Maybe if enough of their own peoples demand peace, it could actually happen.
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06:20 PM on 04/28/2010
Mainly because if you do any reading on the greenhouses you'll find the actual narrative is rather different from the false one which was at one time accepted as factual. Then again that would be because he does look at more than one source and carries on looking into it rather than those like yourself who read one article on a subject several years ago and accept it as gospel.
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soitgoes12
Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself
07:00 PM on 04/28/2010
"I forgot that being a linguist automatically qualifies you to know what you're talking about in the context of international politics."

Chomsky has never claimed to be an expert in foreign affairs and admits that he tries to look at issues from a common sense perspective and then tracks down information outside of what is being pushed as the status quo in the US.
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batguano
As Long As Grass Grow, Wind Blow & The Sky Is Blue
04:57 PM on 04/28/2010
Why don’t we just allow Israel to take all the occupied West Bank & Gaza & evict the Palestinians who have lived there for generations, & get it over with; why ignore Israel’s clear goals & drag-out Palestinian suffering & abuse for decades more? Would Israel then live at peace with their neighbors or continue to “make war by deception”? Would they then give equal rights to “Israeli Palestinians”? Israeli extremists still desire South Lebanon (at least) to control the water of the Litani River;
Didn’t Jews live there thousands of years ago & have rightful claim to that land also? Didn’t god give the “chosen people” that land as well as all the Occupied Territories? Would they want more Syrian territory in addition to the Occupied Golan? What about Jordanian & Egyptian territory? “Greater Israel” has been the dream & extremist goal for generations & it certainly is not peaceful co-existence, now proven by countless actions.

The extreme sense of entitlement of Israelis is really over the top & unparalleled in the post WWII world. That the world continues to allow Israel to dictate the lives & deaths of Palestinians in the inhumane & racist Gaza prison is astonishing & shameful. The greed & arrogant self-centered mindset & ease with which Israel kills & destroys Palestinians and their property is really is a danger to all people who live anywhere the Israeli extremist expansionists feel is their “birthright” & indeed the whole world, given their nuclear arsenal and history
05:02 PM on 04/28/2010
Do you actually have anything rational to add to to the discussion.?
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Richard Pearce
Atheistic-agnostic Canadian polymath
06:16 PM on 04/28/2010
Asks mister irrationality.
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Aussieposter
And so it begins
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Jannsmoor
06:28 PM on 04/28/2010
First, you have to get the truth out among the people. Truth which the political establishment and main stream media do not want out there. And you have to get people like Oleg1 to have the courage to examine the truth and ignore the propaganda they have swallowed hook, line and sinker.
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nikto
04:42 PM on 04/28/2010
A superior power must impel a group of large corporations to construct a vast, partly underground system of poer-generating waterfalls and solar power zones, built and manned by citizens of all warring nations in the area. It would be located in the middle of the warring factions' areas, and would be run jointly by all parties.

Vast reservoirs of stored underground water would spill over huge artificial underground waterfalls, generating huge amounts of energy. Solar mirrors at the surface would inject vast heat and pressure into the system, propelling water back up to the surface so it could go over the falls again&again, generating vast amounts of hydro-energy.

The system would be a shared oasis and lifeline of water, energy and employment
for millions of people.

But in a strictly profit-based world, this will never happen.
05:05 PM on 04/28/2010
Eh?! Put down that copy of Erewhon instantly.
04:26 PM on 04/28/2010
Palestinians are the new Native Americans.
05:11 PM on 04/28/2010
Once there was a British Mandate palestine.
Some Palestinains formed a country called Israel ( thanks U.N.); some Palestinains formed a country called Jordan ( thanks Brits) and some Palestinains chose not to form their state and decided war was preferable. They fought ALL the other states which emerged from the British mandate Palestine.... and lost.

C'est la guerre
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Richard Pearce
Atheistic-agnostic Canadian polymath
06:16 PM on 04/28/2010
Is that the new position of the IDFSO?
09:06 PM on 04/28/2010
Palestine was what it was called on all the old pre-1950s maps.

The Palestinians are no more Jordanian than Americans are Canadian.
08:17 PM on 04/28/2010
Precisely!
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hello All
04:21 PM on 04/28/2010
Chomsky article on HuffPo, great. Thanks HuffPo.

Very enlightening article. keep up the good work.
04:21 PM on 04/28/2010
After reading this excellent piece by Chomsky and knowing what I know from other sources, I almost despair about the possibility of getting some justice for Palestine & Palestinians. Imagine how they feel? Its almost enough to make me think, .. "O.K. Iran, please make a few nuclear bombs and blast the hell out of that nasty little theocracy that's causing all the trouble in the Middle-East, and we'll be done with them for good!" .... because THAT may be the ONLY way justice will come about.

Nothing good is ever going to come out of the present Israeli policy. Do they think the Palestinians are just going to disappear? Have no allies? Not go on to create unending guerilla warfare? Netanyahu's government, and Obama's government too, are deluded fools if they think the Palestinians, or their Arab allies, will ever give up the fight.
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muck-raker
give me liberty or give me death
04:40 PM on 04/28/2010
greatscot...good post...here is a video called Uzis and Oreos although I would call it The Worlds largest prison....here then is part 1 and there are 5 more parts you can save (click link at bottom of screen) to watch later...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH_6xmiLOI0
03:56 PM on 04/28/2010
The Gaza Marine Field in the eastern Mediterranean Sea lies about 30 kilometers off the coast and contains around 1.3 trillion cubic feet of reserves
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Amryxx
politeness rules, but with sharpened edges
04:13 PM on 04/28/2010
Compared to Iran, Saudi Arabia or Indonesia, is this a lot?
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skialethia
Ελευθερία ή θάνατος
08:55 PM on 04/28/2010
Whatever it is, it has the potential to lift Gaza out of abject misery and Israel is STEALING THIS RESOURCE TOO.

Stealing resources on occupied territory is a war crime according to the Geneva Convention.
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Amryxx
politeness rules, but with sharpened edges
03:32 PM on 04/28/2010
I didn't know there's oil in the OC.

... so, any estimate on how much and the quality of the delicious petroleum?
04:41 PM on 04/28/2010
I don't think there is any oil there unless I missed something or misread. Chomsky did refer to natural gas which Gaza does have (and Israel controls) is that what you're referring to?
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Arrech
NY, NY
04:16 PM on 04/28/2010
Thanks. I've read your posts. You've another fan.
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Arrech
NY, NY
04:31 PM on 04/28/2010
Back atcha, bro (or sis)
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Cheryl12345
06:52 PM on 04/28/2010
Hi Arrech, your first link came up "page could not be found". However The second link is intact and it is heartbreaking! Children are the innocent bystanders that cannot be protected from becoming part of the fabric of any event, in this case, war. War is so evil and so hateful. If war could be conducted just between soldiers, then what could one say if one signs up to be a soldier. But the innocent bystanders, the women and children become sucked into the horros of war. Childen are not soldiers, should never be soldiers, and should not die like that. War itself is an act of terrorism.
03:24 PM on 04/28/2010
It's really a pleasure to read an article that isn't The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict 101 on here. The emphasis on Israel's naval blockade and their expropriation of Palestinian resources and Obama's continued complicity with Israel are issues that don't get enough attention when everyone gets caught up trying to explain the basics over and over again to people who can't or won't grasp the facts in front of them. The constant go rounds about whether or not all Arabs want to kill all Israelis, whether or not the Gaza Massacre was committed by Israel after they provoked the situation in the first place, and whether or not Israel has a right to the land based on being there thousands of years ago are all issues that some people are never going to see the light on regardless of what facts you show them so I like having a writer discuss the problems that are less talked about and waste less space on explaining things that intelligent people already know and blind people will never admit to knowing.
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Richard Pearce
Atheistic-agnostic Canadian polymath
03:54 PM on 04/28/2010
So well said, I fanned you.

BTW, if you want to see the facts and figures about what Israel does to the Palestinians, here's a good resource

http://www.pchrgaza.org/portal/en/

As a human rights group, they also criticise both the PA and the 'defacto government' (the compromise they worked out to let them somewhat accurately address the way the government has been split into two, sort of like what would have to be done if congress ended up running the government of the blue states, and the senate and president ended up running the red ones) for human rights abuses.

this page http://www.pchrgaza.org/portal/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=84&Itemid=183 gives a weekly report that details how many boats were shot at, how many people had their houses raided in the middle of the night, how many were arrested, injured, or killed. And seeing as their report on the dead of Cast Lead is right in the middle (they put some police in the civilian column, and some in the fighter column, based on what they were doing, rather than the all civilian/all fighter choice of all the other credible lists) they seem to have a pretty good handle on the need for accuracy.
04:35 PM on 04/28/2010
Thanks for the links, the organization looks very credible and the site is organized and professional which alone is a wonder. I bookmarked their Links section it's so thorough. I like getting new sources, authors, sites etc. to reference because I think it makes for a better understanding in the long run. I even force myself to read Yedioth Aharanot and Jerusalem Post op-ed and news articles even though Caroline Glick makes me pretty nauseous. Ann Coulter could learn a few things from her.
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skialethia
Ελευθερία ή θάνατος
09:44 PM on 04/28/2010
Richard, I noticed someone flagged you for no reason too. It seems some posters are flagging without valid justification. I'm going to fave you to counter the flag. They got a 2-part comment that I posted deleted. I believe what they're doing is flagging posts multiple times to get them deleted. So we should do the opposite to prevent the post from getting deleted.
03:11 PM on 04/28/2010
Noam, Israel is now a AAA-rated American political issue as rated by both political parties and Moodys. The outcome in this conflict may end up being determined by the aggregate swap bets in America. Outcomes are no longer logical.
02:58 PM on 04/28/2010
Can there be Noam Chomsky article where people aren't nut hugging him? I mean, he's an extremely important figure in foreign policy and well respected for his work (for good reason) but the amount of posts that essentially give the illogical argument "Chomsky researches well, therefore his points are flawless" are themselves anti-intellectual. Why even have a comments section, then?
03:19 PM on 04/28/2010
do you have any specific gripes with the article or are you just making inane commentary on commentary?
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03:31 PM on 04/28/2010
Everything that can be said against Chomsky on the Israel/Palestine conflict has already been said by Dershowitz, whose methods to defend the quality of his research are widely suspected to be anti-intellectual.
02:43 PM on 04/28/2010
Wow, this pretty much says it all. Well done, Mr. Chomsky.
02:39 PM on 04/28/2010
Obviously, Dr. Chomsky has always been a supporter of a one-state solutions with Arab majority.
The justifications change ( prior to the Lebanese civil war Dr. Chomsky used the example of Lebanon as a model of cooperation). but the underlying goal remains.
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lbsaltzman
Permaculture and Sustainability
02:49 PM on 04/28/2010
Actually Noam Chomsky has stated repeatedly that he favors the two state solution. He doesn't see the one state solution as realistic.
03:05 PM on 04/28/2010
Despite the rhetoric Dr. Chomsky simply toes PLO party line, whatever it is at the time. Dr. Chomsky advocated one -state solution ( with Arab leadership) repeatedly and vociferously when that was PLO's line. (Lucky for Israelis that didn't come to pass).
After PLO was decisively defeated by Israel, Syria and Jordan and deprived of Kuwait support, Arafat begrudgingly accepted two-state solution. And voila, so did Dr. Chomsky.
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soitgoes12
Thou shalt keep thy religion to thyself
02:57 PM on 04/28/2010
"it is difficult even to conjure up a feasible settlement. In this case, it is not only possible, but there is near universal agreement on its basic contours: a two-state settlement along the internationally recognized (pre-June 1967) borders "

From the first paragraph.
04:49 PM on 04/28/2010
The consensus on land division was largely reached at Camp David and other negotiations. According to all participants it was Palestinian demand for the right of the return of the Palestinians and ALL of the their descendants anywhere in the world ( but not Jews, obviously) to Holy Land that was the Gordian Knot of Camp David.
Perfect excuse for Palestinains to begin a five year guerrilla warfare, naturally.
"Never losing an opportunity to lose an opportunity" is the M.O. of Palestinian politics.
02:28 PM on 04/28/2010
The U.S. and Israel have been acting in tandem to extend and deepen the occupation,
which is crafted by AIPAC, which is Zionism's de-facto political party. AIPAC is deepening
the occupation, yet I've never seen Chomsky write anything about AIPAC.
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Arrech
NY, NY
02:42 PM on 04/28/2010
Really?

Check this:

http://www.zcommunications.org/the-israel-lobby-by-noam-chomsky
03:02 PM on 04/28/2010
Thanks. I will read this over later. I have heard speeches of Chomsky recently and it's often the fault of the US Government (and Israel) for the lack of the peace process engagement. My point is only to be more specific than the saying the government (left or right for that matter), and maybe it not his position to do so.

It should be said that the lobby places a greater influence on preventinging peace and in fact destroying the hope of Palestinians. This example is no more clearly illustrated than a Zionist organization, the Weisenthol Center in Los Angeles, building a Museum of Tolerance in East Jerusalem on the historic site of the Mamilla Cemetery. To desecrate a graveyard for a Museum of Tolerance is just sick.
03:06 PM on 04/28/2010
Another deep space communique from planet Chomsky.....
04:07 PM on 04/28/2010
Chomsky rejects the thesis that AIPAC overwhelmingly predominates in determining US policy in the Middle East.

http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20060328.htm

Before you go around saying you've never seen Chomsky write about something, you might first want to go to his website and do a simple search. It's not too complicated.
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Arrech
NY, NY
08:25 PM on 04/28/2010
Thank you, fotomatt. Fanned
09:25 PM on 04/28/2010
The US enjoys the hegemony that financial control of Israel offers.

The US is getting some value, for its money, in that way.