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tallen
panem et circenses
09:08 PM on 05/02/2010
Too bad the palestinians have spent 60 years trying to kill Jews instead of building infrastructure and developing water resources.
But, that was their choice.
09:49 PM on 05/02/2010
I wonder if you are even slightly aware that most of the West Bank is dependant on water from wells, and that Israeli government approval has to be obtained prior to the sinking of any new one, and that most Palestinians applications for new wells have been declined, and that, many existing Palestinians wells have been destroyed by the IDF or so-called "settlers", and that wells for the exclusive use of Israelis have been granted, sunk and are in use?

It was not "their choice" at all.

They are not allowed to sink wells, Israelis are.

Israel steals resource from the West bank aquifer on a daily and increasing basis while denying that water to the Palestinians.
09:56 PM on 05/02/2010
Until either side loves their own children more than they hate the others there will be no sensible and mature decisions made. The Zionists are hateful and that faction of the Palestinians are too. We in this country are not objective either, because our Congress is full of Israelies that MUST fight for Israel's zionists. Hate is taught on both sides. We dont' help it.
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03:04 AM on 05/03/2010
no use talking to that German shepard, all over HP with Lie's and distortions.
Right Wing Israel can kill 1,000 civilians in Gaza, including 4 little daughters
in one family, and the dog does not care. It will bring up something from
2-3,000 years ago or some other diversion to get away from the truth.
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12:07 AM on 05/03/2010
tallen,

Fanned, continual rabid hatred is not conductive to improvements in their living conditions. Nor is unlimited reproduction.
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10:52 PM on 05/04/2010
So when the IDF killed over 1,000 civilians in Gaza last
year that was some sort of "population control ? "

They killed 4 little daughters in just one family.
Got rid of 4 dangerous wombs I guess in their view ?!?
06:37 PM on 05/02/2010
"There, Arab villages and Jewish settlers can live only a mile or two apart, but get far different allocations of water. The settlers, who are subsidized by the Israeli government, are encouraged to plant crops and have gardens, while the Palestinians try to collect enough to survive."

This is chilling & so very painful to see that the American leadership in the US Congress as well as the White House, now & past, has allowed, tolerated, underwritten, supported by tacit consent & even more such inhumanity & gross behavior toward Palestinian families. What an embarrassment & black mark upon the American leaders & those of the other major powers. I don't think any history books will deal kindly with them.
09:42 AM on 05/03/2010
But it's not really surprising. Elected officials always take care of those that voted for them first. Ethnic groups always take care of their own first. The Israeli government is doing what any government anywhere in the world does, taking care of their own over their neighbours.

America does it all the time, taking actions to help their citizens which have negative ramifications on their neighbours in Canada and Mexico. Do the american politicians care? Do Americans? not really.
03:13 PM on 05/03/2010
It's one thing to take care of one's own first, & relegate all others to fend for themselves through benign neglect; however, it's another thing altogether to grind one's occupied subjects deliberately into the dust, regulating, controlling, disallowing them to repair, dig wells or even to collect rainwater in some cases, or to malevolently channel sewage into their farms.
05:49 PM on 05/02/2010
@rosiebond007 : I vote to cancel ALL monies that are going to Israel PERIOD! The US is funding a great war crime... and they dare to whine about holocausts. The Israelis can take good care of themselves without brainwashing Americans to overfill Israel's already brimming pockets. Israel is being greedy and is a criminal state. They claim 'defense' against Palestinians...hahahahaaaaa.... I spit in their face. They are illegally occupying another state, and continue to steal from the Palestinians. Under these circumstances, I support Palestine's retaliation... in ALL and ANY form.
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GZLives
05:55 PM on 05/02/2010
Right because no matter what, Israelis lie and Palestinians are genuine peace loving and are always the victimized ... ad nuseum

Hey earth to Marcehole .... if they had accepted partition in 1948 they would have had their own country decades ago - but not only did they prefer to annihilate the Jews instead then tried and lost, but then TRIED AGAIN and lost.

Are there any consequences for one's actions in your universe ?
07:11 PM on 05/02/2010
I recognize the propaganda BS on both sides. The issue here is that of illegal occupation, illegal settlements, illegal restriction of movement... etc... Fortunately more and more people are recognizing the straight dope on this issue... even large numbers of the Israelis themselves... even the soldiers who refuse to serve in the occupied territories (and then they are imprisoned). Yes... there are consequences... and right now Israel is feeling it! They dare to call this 'defense'... this is war crimes! US is as guilty as Israel!
04:14 AM on 05/03/2010
GZ - if a gangster drove you out of your house and then said you could live in half of it would you have been willing to accept theat deal. This is earth calling GZ. No court of law would have accepted a gangster having a right to half your house.
06:32 PM on 05/02/2010
I already did.
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rosiebond007
04:31 PM on 05/02/2010
Sounds like more re-enactment of Ghetto existence for the Palestinians.

Why do the Jews need the Palestinians to suffer as they did? They had absolutely NOTHING to do with Germany at any time but the anger and resentment has to be dealt out to somebody.

When are the Israelis going to face their neighbors, from whom they have stolen everything they can INCLUDING WATER, and determine to live in peace.

I vote to cancel all monies that are going to Israel until they behave like human beings.
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dmz
notes from reality
05:39 PM on 05/02/2010
The movement is called Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions.
http://bdsmovement.net/

Same thing we did to Iraq and we are doing to Iran and North Korea.
Rogue states need to cooperate with international standards or accept being isolated.
06:34 PM on 05/02/2010
Not the Jews. The Zionists.

Most Jews are not Zionists. Some Christians ARE Zionists.

The Zionists are trying to drive out the Arabs and grab all the land. So, they deny the Arabs the essentials, like water. It's against the Geneza 4th, which Israel signed.
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10:57 PM on 05/04/2010
Mike Huckabee and most of the other right wing nuts leading
the Republicans are very much into this Israel can do no wrong
thinking. He even has been a minister ! How in the world can
anyone be blind to what happened in Gaza, the over 1,000
killed, is beyond me.
03:08 PM on 05/02/2010
I wonder if there is anything we can do to help here in the US? Is there a charity that deals specifically with the water situation? I wonder how difficult it would be to ask the Great Lakes states for some water donations to be sent over there?
06:35 PM on 05/02/2010
The Palestinians have all the aquifers they need, right on their lands.

However, the Israelis seized and diverted them.
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12:09 AM on 05/03/2010
Yes, send them unlimited amounts of birth control products. That would be a great start.
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03:15 AM on 05/03/2010
Jews in Israel generally see themselves in a population race,
to gain as big a majority as possible vs. the "dirty" Arabs.
So roudy, are their big families just as absurd in this
world of shrinking resources and pollution ?

So you have Americans barely making it, often losing their homes,
while we send billions to a country that does not need the money
and spits on us. We lose homes while they build on stolen, or
at the least disputed land. This also puts US soldiers
and civilians at greater risk. This is an "ally" ???
04:47 AM on 05/03/2010
roudy, you might send your suggestion to Martin Kramer of Harvard.
However, if you study demographics you will find that the best way to reduce population growth is to improve living standards. Since it is blatantly obvious that Israeli policy is to depress the living standards of non-Jews under their control be they Israeli citizens or residents of Israeli occupied Palestine, I am surprised that they are so exercised about Palestinian fecundity.
02:49 PM on 05/02/2010
A united Israeli/Palestinian State would easily be able to solve the water crisis for both sides. Un fortunately the right wing in Israel wants to divert to water only to themselves without seeking a solution to benefit both people. Such actions of the Israeli right will be detremental to both parties in the future. Unfortunately the Israeli right never looks very far beyond the next US aid check or they can wait for the next GWB do nothing administration to allow them to do whatver they like to the Palestinians.
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GZLives
05:56 PM on 05/02/2010
But neither ide wants that ?

Why didn't Palestinians ever want a State of their own when Jordan occupied them? When Turkey occupied them? When Britain occupied them?
06:36 PM on 05/02/2010
Well, while the European Ashkenazim occupied them, both Israel and the US threatened them, if they tried to declare a state.
04:53 AM on 05/03/2010
When Jordan occupied them, they retained property rights, when Britain held a mandate over them, they retained property rights, when Turkey occupied them they retained property rights, it was only when Israel occupied them that their property rights were slighted.
When people speak of Israeli theft of land in the West Bank they are talking about the actual alienation of property from its owners, by "legal" legerdemain.
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David Norman
Lefty Computer Geek
09:51 PM on 05/02/2010
A united Israel/Palestinian state would solve the water problem alright, by granting right of return to 6 million descendants and then slaughtering the Jews. What is needed is a viable, fair two state solution that includes water sharing clauses that carry the force of international law (i.e. defined and direct action by the world community if either side abrogates. You can not have a shared state when one side of that state denies the other sides right to exist.
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11:10 PM on 05/04/2010
well David you seem moderate at times.

But you automatically assume the returning Arabs, repeat, Returning,
would " slaughter the Jews."
You also seem to forget that Israel does not really recognize the rights
of the Arabs either, so why should they recognize a group that does
not return the respect ?

I think we can agree that a solution would require less debate about
ancient history, more realism about who really needs what, and
can give up whatever.

For example I would understand Israels
security needs and demilitarize any Palestine or Gaza state, and
ask Jordan, especially Syria, to keep tanks, etc. at least 10-20km
away from the border. If there is peace then the Arabs should be
willing to think of steps like that, and Israel of course also.
02:04 PM on 05/02/2010
Now the true face (reason) of occupation is showing up, water resources. Similar to the West bank, the Golan is indispensable as it provides water resources for all the settlers and beyond.
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GZLives
07:35 PM on 05/02/2010
The Golan is Israel - Syria lost that by making war.
In real life there are consequences for one's actions.
Plus they make great wine
11:01 AM on 05/03/2010
Follow international law and do not mess with the Druze.
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10:52 PM on 05/03/2010
" consequences for actions ", then when the Arabs fire back a few missiles
that rarely hurt anyone for the IDF killing kids or bulldozing homes it must
be ok, right ?

If the IDF did not shoot journalists, run machinery over
an American woman, terrorize Arabs that live near settlers, etc., etc.,
then maybe the Arabs would not have any reason to try to strike back.

To hold on to Golan is to insure an unending conflict. But as long
as the right wingers there can take more land maybe they are
fine with that. Their claims to want peace are maybe just a ploy ?!?
09:17 AM on 05/03/2010
And it's only going to get worse, not just in Israel and Palestine, but throughout the middle east and the world. Start getting used to conflicts over water. 1/3 of the US has just been going through a drought that most experts say has been going on for between 10 and 15 years, and the great lakes are at all time low water levels - it's happening everywhere.
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dmz
notes from reality
02:00 PM on 05/02/2010
America needs a more balanced foreign policy in the middle east. We cannot continue to blindly support what Israel does there.
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rosiebond007
04:31 PM on 05/02/2010
Agreed
06:37 PM on 05/02/2010
We won't. Really.

Different zeitgeist. 
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Zanubiyah
12:46 PM on 05/02/2010
This is exactly why the Israelis do not want the occupation to end.

Israel only has 40% of it's water needs met without illegally allocating it from the occupied lands.
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rosiebond007
04:33 PM on 05/02/2010
So now Israel is going for starvation ..... hunger ..... lack of water .... lack of medical care, education, manufacturing, livelihoods ....

No end in sight for the Palestinians.

This is another Rwanda in the ME - DO SOMETHING AMERICA
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GZLives
07:40 PM on 05/02/2010
Pleeease .... can you even name one single realistic Arab proposal .. ONE ?

The Arab League or Saudi proposal includes a laughable right of return for 7 million Arabs - the original 700,000 and their 6 million descendants which they know is a non starter.

Now name one ...
04:25 AM on 05/03/2010
GZ - right of return is one reason. I can give you a few more if you want.
01:06 PM on 05/07/2010
Yet, His Excellency Dr. Marnhan Muashar, Minister of Foreign Affairs for Jordan, in elaborating the Arab League proposal said, in respect of that particular issue:

" “Achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian refugee problem TO BE AGREED UPON in accordance with UN General Assembly Resolution 194”: For the first time, the Arab world commits itself to an AGREED solution to the refugee problem, thus addressing Israel’s concern that the demographic character of the Jewish state not be threatened. To be sure, the initiative calls for achieving a just solution of the problem in accordance with UNGA Resolution 194, but it points out that the implementation of that resolution has to be agreed. The key point here is that Arabs understand well that the implementation has to be both fair and realistic, and certainly agreed upon. In other words, there is no possibility of a solution that will lead to the changing of the character of the Jewish state. Fortunately, there have been many suggested solutions, at Taba and elsewhere between Palestinian and Israeli interlocutors that point to the possibility of reaching a pragmatic settlement to this problem. It is true as well that the Arab initiative also addresses Arab needs: Israeli withdrawal from all Arab territories occupied in 1967, and the establishment of an independent Palestinian state, with East Jerusalem as its capital. But previous negotiations between Israel, Palestinians and other Arab states have shown that these goals are well within reach."

Seems both realistic and reasonable.