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RButler
I've always wanted to have everything I wanted
01:48 AM on 05/07/2010
A Catholic friend told me that if a priest has sex with a woman, he is excommunicated. But, if he has sex with a man, he's not. Is that true? It says a lot about the church's relationship with women.

She also said that the priests eat far better food than the nuns and other little bits of information that give one pause. My favorite is that when Pope John Paul visited Monterey, California he brought his own toilet, not just the seat, but the whole 'effing' toilet'.
02:48 AM on 05/07/2010
The answer to your first question is NO, what your friends says is NOT true at all.
As for nuns, that would depend on the order; some live simply and some do not.
Still the heirarchy is sexist, and it's a very bad time for any group of nuns to try to exercise freedom of speech.
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01:32 AM on 05/07/2010
Comparing the results of the surveys on confidence in national institutions generally and the Catholic ones in particular is pointless as the parameters of both are quite different. Other than that - pretty much what anyone would have expected.
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Sneakerface
01:02 AM on 05/07/2010
A: The Catholic Church : A Failed Institution ?

A: The Catholic Church: A Failed Institution.
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HeevenSteven
20 Minutes into the future.
11:11 PM on 05/06/2010
If they'd reject evolution, and be even harder on gays, they'd do just fine in "real America".
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10:46 PM on 05/06/2010
Do you approve or disapprove of the overall job that (a)Pope Benedict XVI (b) the American Catholic Bishops are doing?

That's an important question Mr. Zogby. Confidence builds faith. However, what confidence exists at a particular time will not change the teachings of the Church. Eclesiastical tradition is 2000 years old. The Church will survive scandal, social upheaval, natural disaster, war, etc. and continue to influence human history.

Matthew 16:18 "And I also, I say unto thee that thou art Peter, and on this rock I will build my assembly, and hades' gates shall not prevail against it."
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RButler
I've always wanted to have everything I wanted
01:33 AM on 05/07/2010
2000 years? Proves that lies persist but the truth has to be discovered over and over again as it tends to disappear. Why do you think we have a phrase 'history repeats itself'? It's because, while we may learn something from a war or other major event, we forget it immediately and repeat the same mistakes.
03:17 AM on 05/07/2010
absolutely true; that's why Matth. 6:6 offers a very convenient solution:
"And when you pray, go into your room and close the door ..."

That's one reason why the clergy in Jesus' time got so infuriated because
with this advice he bascially withdrew people from the clerical influence. And looking
back what was all said and preached in God's / Jesus' name it really makes sense.
In other words: stay home on Sunday, take it easy, better sleep well instead of
running to the Church because there nobody can betray your confidence, abuse
your confidence and certainly load you with whatever. For instance the still
all important Augustinian theology (the longest time THE big message).
05:14 AM on 05/07/2010
Sorry!!
I hope you are not suggestion that Matthew 16:18 implies or refers to the Roman Catholic church or its leadership. The rock mentioned refers to the truth that Peter stated when answering Jesus Christ's question ("And are build upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief conrnerstone," Eph. 2:20; "And were baptised unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and did all eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink; for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ," 1 Cor 10:2-4).
The Roman Catholic church, both historically and now, represents something far and different from this.
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Klarsonent
Semi-retired landlady, small business entrepreneur
09:58 AM on 05/07/2010
"Bellville" Thanks for pointing out the Truth of the matter.
10:02 PM on 05/06/2010
Berlin

German Catholic church authorities here launched two intertwined investigations Wednesday into allegations of abuse by members of the clergy. One is looking into allegations about the brother of Pope Benedict XVI and the second into how much members of the German clergy – including the German-born pope - knew about the allegations, which date back to the 1950s

These cases include allegations of naked beatings, fondling, and sodomy.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/0311/Will-German-Catholic-church-abuse-case-reach-Pope-Benedict
11:44 PM on 05/06/2010
Good heavens! This report is 2 months old!

It was permissible by law (in Bavaria) for teachers to slap students until 1980, when the law was officially repealed.

As a music teacher, the pope's brother was only following the norms of his time (as other teachers were).

If the German state didn't like the wide-spread practice (of slapping students), it should not have waited until 1980 to change the law. (But then again, some of our states waited until the 1960's before they finally changed their racial laws permitting segregation and and forbidding miscegenation, something the German states dropped in 1945, after the WWII).
06:41 AM on 05/07/2010
Are you saying fondling children and sodomy is ok because slapping students was a wide-spread practice before 1980?
10:00 PM on 05/06/2010
by the way, as the Catholic hierarchy and the holy father is concerned, where they are
coming from - or not:
"And you should not call anyone among you father on earth; because one is your
father, the one who is in heaven. And you should not let you be called teacher, ..."
And logically to that would Jesus not say in any part of the bible, contradicting these
prohibitions, that St.Peter for instance is to become FATHER or, worse, HOLY FATHER.

If that faith rests on anything amids that widespread nihilism than it is the
Catholic funeral. Otherwise people are often pretty outspoken about their lack
of faith in God, that they do not believe anyhow. Just for that and other social reasons
are they still members of the Church.
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Klarsonent
Semi-retired landlady, small business entrepreneur
10:02 AM on 05/07/2010
"josephXY" Good post. Thanks for bringing up this scripture.
09:34 PM on 05/06/2010
The things the church has done, ( and not done ) leaves me speechless at times. I am fascinated by it's history and at the same time repulsed. Ever since the pardon of Nixon I have felt it is very important to hold people in high places accountable. Sadly, this has not happened.

I can not help but think, the goal of the Roman Catholic Church is it's own continuation, even at the cost of innocent children. The arrogance of this church is breathtaking. Does anyone think, if it were not for the secularization of governments ( separation of church and state ) that this church would not be conducting more inquisitions, and weeding out heretics?
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RButler
I've always wanted to have everything I wanted
01:35 AM on 05/07/2010
Exactly. No more Catholics on the Supreme Court. There are 6. It's not right.
09:13 PM on 05/06/2010
If religion offers some structure and tradition to an otherwise chaotic life I can understand the need of comfort. If you want a venue to receive the symbolic blessing of God on your wedding day or upon the death of a loved one, I understand that too. But do not think for one second that God dwells in those edifices. He is in our hearts. These authority figures in robes have merely hijacked the concept that God is Love and Forgiveness and are selling it back to us at a steep price. Religion is a choice. Why buy second-hand what you already own?
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Klarsonent
Semi-retired landlady, small business entrepreneur
10:03 AM on 05/07/2010
Excellent post.
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LMPE
I connect the most dissimilar things
07:01 PM on 05/06/2010
Unless the RCC owns up to its actions, it will remain a failed institution.
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mcthfg
06:08 PM on 05/06/2010
They've been a failed institution ever since they starting taking cash for indulgences.
09:56 PM on 05/06/2010
Isn't Constantine the Emperor who did not get baptized till he was as close to death as possible so he could go on ' sinning ' and still go to heaven later?
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01:28 AM on 05/07/2010
Yes.
09:32 PM on 05/07/2010
Ain't christianity great? You can be a serial murderer, then confess your sins, get baptized or whatever, just before you become a dead man walking. You go to eternal bliss. BUT you happened to murder a muslim, an atheist and a jew. Your victims are all burning in hell. Go figure.....
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Klarsonent
Semi-retired landlady, small business entrepreneur
10:04 AM on 05/07/2010
You've got it. That's what incensed Martin Luther who started the Protestant Reformation.
09:34 PM on 05/07/2010
I'm a protestant, but even I know that Martin Luther was crazy as a loon. He's probably the only person who could make the catholic hierarchy look good by comparison.
05:46 PM on 05/06/2010
Thanks for your opinion, Fr Luther. Pope Sixtus, we have a problem in Germany.
04:59 PM on 05/06/2010
"I don't think Catholics are really that informed about this."

Hardly! If anything, Catholics are over-informed and have a severe case of over-load.
In addition, according to the NEW YORK TIMES/CPS NEWS poll, most Catholics say "the news media have been harder on the Catholic Church than on other religions." Bias and bigotry turns them off.

I think that why 62% of the Catholics want the pope to continue in office.

Personally, I think if some American bishops, who were associated with Cardinal Law and other culprits, stepped down (including Law himself), it would make things easier for the pope. But of course, that is not going to happen;so the American church will just have to wait until they retire or die.

Meanwhile, as that same poll NYT/CBS noted, most Catholics feel good about their parish priests, with a majority saying that most priests understand their needs and that they trust their own priest with their children.
05:18 PM on 05/06/2010
I think from reading these comments that there are a lot of ignorant people. One never hears about all of the children molested in our public school system, the protestant churches, the jewish religion, the boy scouts. Where are all of these stories. What about the failure of our government. This survey is a joke. Zogby himself is a failure. Why arent his stoiries fair. Look on the internest for stories of sex abuse in the protestant churhes. It is a shame some of the comment are so prejudice in this time and age. We need more from the Catholic Church not less Go to it Pope Benedict
04:51 AM on 05/07/2010
danmar - read the papers. They do report the sexual abuse of children by other religions. Rabbis, ministers you name it. One thing that people hate is the hypocrisy of the RC church. It is a whited sepulcher, so fair without, a rotten corp within.
04:34 PM on 05/06/2010
Your title about the Catholic Church being a failed institution indicates you do not understand your own survey results. Firstly, your survey entry is about organized religions. There are more organized religions that you can count with your fingers. But your headline zeroed in on the Catholic Church. Okay, you gave explanations but these are not part of your survey. Secondly, the pope has higher approval rating than the federal & state governments, the national & regional banks, Wall Street, labor unions and new media and you do not classify these as failed institution. Read your own numbers more carefully please. Otherwise, why bother to run surveys at all?
04:53 PM on 05/06/2010
Hey - did you even scroll down to read the CATHOLIC-SPECIFIC surveys? It is a rhetorical question.
12:01 AM on 05/07/2010
Joe; The RC church was a failed institution before Martin Luther in 1520. Back then and in Luther's time it simply burned dissidents at the stake. Since the government doesn't have the power to send you to hell for eternity, it has bad ratings all the time. Popes have been historically corrupt by and large the position of pope was created by men.. Once there were three popes. Once there were two popes. The incredible cathedrals were paid for by the people. They were paid for by the people who were often living in hovels. What kind of idiot can believe a man had the power to send Galileo to hell and another one had the power to release him from hell four hundred years later. Families cover up pedophiles but though families can make your life hell they can't make your life hell for eternity. Government, banks, mega corporations may be corrupt or stupid but only the popes have throughout time covered up child abuse. People forced the end of child labour, and various other abuses. I personnally could never ever trust this pope or his predecessors since I know about the sexual crimes of the popes and the priests long ago. Girls, women, men and boys. They knew and they covered it up. If you want to think this is not common knowledge in places like France, then you need to read a bit. Read "Clochemerle" which is a funny novel about two priests in France.
09:29 AM on 05/07/2010
My comments were on the title "The Catholic Church: A Failed Institution?" and on its obvious lack of rational bearing to the statistical data which the report contained. The 1st table lists 13 institutions and Organized Religions ranked 5th. Seven other institutions (including governments & news media) ranked lower. But, the banner headline is "THE CATHOLIC CHURCH (not organized religions) FAILED". Excuse me?

There are indeed 2 other tables that deal with data on the Pope and the Catholic bishops. But John Zogby himself wrote that two-thirds of Catholics support the Pope and don't feel the Church should be relegated to the list of failed institution. So, why the title? It seems to me that the title is an attempt to capture attention to the report by riding on the ongoing controversy.

Over the centuries there have been a lot of transgressions and failures by Church leaders and ministers for which no defense is possible. It would not even be helpful to point out that these failures are not exclusive to the Catholic Church. These are issues that the Church must address at every level.

Although beset by human frailties, the Catholic Church as a community of believers, has to continue on its journey to the Heavenly Father. Many will squirm at this statement, but to me absence of faith is their loss, not of the believers.

In the meantime, we avoid using catchy titles that are not supported by our reports.
03:56 PM on 05/06/2010
The catholic church does not represent Jesus. That ended with Constantine.
The catholic church is the remnant of the holy roman empire, not really a church.
The homo social structure of the catholic church leads to perversion.
The catholic icon and structural focus on the crucifixion instead of Christ's teachings and charitable and tolerant example create a dark, foreboding brutal ambiance.
I was a catholic alter boy, but am now an ex-catholic.
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nunsuch
History professor and Catholic feminist
08:40 PM on 05/06/2010
If you are an "alter" boy, does that mean you had a sex-change operation--or just a religion change one? Sadly, you seem to have as much sense of what you are talking about as you have spelling ability....
09:37 PM on 05/06/2010
my typing and proof reading sucks, my eyes ain't that good either....

other than that, ya got anything to say?