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TYRANNASAURUS
UGH!....people taste like crap!
12:39 PM on 06/14/2010
SINCE JESUS IS NOT MENTIONED IN REAL HISTORY..............DID THE NONEXISTENT JESUS LIKE DINOSAURS?
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Olaugh
If you are sure, you've stopped listening.
02:39 PM on 06/14/2010
Why are you seeking to be offensive? You say "real history" as if it were an empirical thing. As a historian and teacher of history, I can assure you there is no such thing. History is the written record of the past. Because every written account contains the perspective of the author none of it is objectively fact. Jesus appears in writing and therefore is as real as any other historical figure for whom there is no tangible archeological evidence.

BTW - I am sure he would have loved dinosaurs, they probable taste like a cross between iguana and chicken.
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alsm9
Bombshell
03:40 PM on 06/14/2010
"Jesus appears in writing and therefore is as real as any other historical figure for whom there is no tangible archeological evidence."

So would Zeus be an historical figure? I don't understand, if there is no tangible archeological evidence, isn't the person nothing more than a myth? And can a mythical figure be considered an historical figure?
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David Belkevitz
04:55 PM on 06/14/2010
I have to disagree with your statement here Olaugh. "Jesus appears in writing and therefore is as real as any other historical figure?" Jesus appears only in hearsay and never in any direct writings from his alleged period. There is a difference in my opinion. If we cross reference evidence from history, we can deduce from these writings that a person existed, whether the stories are true is another matter, (especially in warfare) because usually the victor writes the story. We know that General Custer was real for instance but the Cinematic version of 'The Battle Of Little Big Horn' is pure fallacy. It was not an epic battle where he stood for three days with 350 arrows in him, the battle lasted less than 30 minutes and has been cross referenced by many differents aspects to correlate this. If writing about someone humanises them, what is mythology all about? According to your statement, by definition Santa Claus exists because he has been written about many many more times than Jesus ever was.
09:33 AM on 06/15/2010
Actually Jesus appears in the writings of the Jewish Historian Josephus.
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realitytrumpsbull
Two 'alves of coconut!
10:38 PM on 06/15/2010
Well, maybe if they can ever find the ancient clay tablet blotter reports left over from Roman times, they can scare up His arrest record...mug shots must have taken a long time, though, stone hammer, and a chisel. Oops! Somebody get me a fresh tablet. Or, did they do face prints?
08:49 AM on 06/14/2010
The cure for most of the ills in the Catholic Church is to take the politics out of the Vatican. Unfortunately, that will probably never happen. However, if we could somehow get a Jesuit Pope, I think some true progress would be realized.
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Olaugh
If you are sure, you've stopped listening.
02:53 PM on 06/14/2010
What a splendid idea!
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Olaugh
If you are sure, you've stopped listening.
07:32 PM on 06/14/2010
Or... no Pope...
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bbriani3842
400+ yrs of science & STILL no evidence for a god
12:54 AM on 06/15/2010
now we're talking . . .
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David Belkevitz
03:43 PM on 06/13/2010
When my wife's family, (all baptists) heard that I was an atheist, her mother came out with the comment; "Why couldn't you have met a nice christian man?" To which my wife replied, "I did mother, don't you remember? He went to prison for 15 years for raping an under age girl." She was referring to her first real boyfriend whom she met at church and he was a prominent church member who helped with the young kids at their Youth Club. True story and just goes to show their warped view of life. If you work within the confines of the church then you're alright with them.
04:49 PM on 06/13/2010
David: Very apt. The "Without God there is no morality," faction persists.

"The people who are regarded as moral luminaries are those who forego ordinary pleasures themselves and find compensation in interfering with the pleasures of others." Bertrand Russell.
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06:28 PM on 06/13/2010
Yes, there are a lot of those that hide their perversion behind their god, truly sickening because a lot of people are fooled by this charade.
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realitytrumpsbull
Two 'alves of coconut!
10:39 PM on 06/15/2010
Also expressed somewhat differently by one George Carlin, who once remarked that the people most concerned with abortion were people you wouldn't want to have sex with in the first place.
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333888999
JCPenney-Retired
02:44 PM on 06/14/2010
Great post, David.
01:55 PM on 06/13/2010
Father, Thank you for writing for the Huffington Post. From what I have read about and by you,
you are what I was always taught priests were like. However, in my personal experience, I have
not found priests to be as thoughtful as you. Please continue to write. Catholics need to hear
from priests like you.
06:19 AM on 06/14/2010
All the Catholic priests I was brought up with were deluded, arrogant, bullying evangelists. I'm sure Fr. Martin is not be a bully but in my opinion all the other adjectives apply.

This article is fantasy, pie in the sky rhetoric. The only profundity is in the amount of garbage he digs up to impress self deceiving believers.
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Olaugh
If you are sure, you've stopped listening.
03:04 PM on 06/14/2010
I disagree, what he "digs up" is, as he says in his diclaimer, "heavy-duty Catholic piety." The language and arguements he uses are not the same ones you would use if you were discussing a matter of secular philosophy. I know that many dismiss faith, out of hand, as dillusion but for those who experience it it is not. Faith needs its own language to express properly, just as physics uses a different vocabulary than music.

I would not dismiss your experience with priests (God knows I have had my own problems with them) but there are some genuinely good men in the priesthood and, among the members of the Society of Jesus, a large number of clear and rational thinkers.
09:37 AM on 06/13/2010
Father, I'm curious. Would you describe a man who claims Catholicism to be preeminent among religions as a narcissist? I put it to you: how can any man or woman credibly claim to know which form of worship the author of a universe with an estimated 100-200 billion galaxies truly prefers? And yet, isn't this the exact claim that Ratzinger put forward only days after John Paul II's historic visit to Jerusalem?

Isn't it, by definition, the height of grandiosity and narcissism to imagine that one has unique insight into a subject that must truly be beyond all human understanding?
02:17 PM on 06/13/2010
Fanned and faved.
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03:36 PM on 06/18/2010
Yep. What he said.
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Luna C666
02:48 PM on 06/13/2010
The pope knows everything about relationships and marriage because he lives in an all-male society and wears a dress..what part of 'direct pipeline to God' don't you understand?
02:54 PM on 06/13/2010
ROFLMAO. FANNED.
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06:28 PM on 06/13/2010
Excellent
07:05 AM on 06/13/2010
As to sexual abuse, James, answer just one question. Why doesn't the Pope and the College of Cardinals issue a mandate that no minor child will be left alone in the presence of a priest?
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bhavanibbana
03:58 PM on 06/15/2010
This is a horrendous counter-point, even by the standard of straw-man arguments.
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03:34 PM on 06/18/2010
Good point Whitley. As an ex Scout Master I can tell you that most Scout Masters that I knew practiced this. It was just a matter of common sense and survival.

I don't see the "straw man" in your question.
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richdibo
Love the sin; hate the sinner.
04:16 AM on 06/13/2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI&feature=related

Answered prayers. Yes, No and Wait is always true.
09:14 PM on 06/12/2010
another cute story of the bible.
my christian girlfriend has forgotten (almost conveniently) that her daughters were in a church teen group. they adored shane, the leader. you could use your first few paragraphs about god to describe shane as well.
i didn't want to sound off alarms if i was wrong, but i picked up a vibe that he was fake. the smile in your face while stabbing you in the back type of smile. he was too close.
i had a discussion with their mom, she talked to her ex. he talked to others at his church. they did a little checking into him
he was late 20's, married with an infant. i had a lot of people angry that i could make a comment let alone an assumption that he had motives.
just a couple of weeks later he was removed after they found out about his past involving young teenage girls.
I HAVE NO REGRETS. I HOPE I AVERTED A HUGE PROBLEM AS I DESTROYED THE KIDS FAITH IN THIS PERSON(NOT A MAN FOR WHAT HE DID)
god is no hero to me.
REGARDLESS OF YOUR FAITH OR LACK OF: NOTHING IS MORE PRECIOUS THAN YOUR CHILDREN. I HAVE A HANDICAPPED CHILD, I KNOW WHAT IT MEANS.
THEY ARE TRUSTING YOU TO TEACH, LEAD AND "PROTECT" THEM. YOU ARE ALL THEY HAVE. NOTHING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN CHILDREN, AND THAT INCLUDES WHATEVER GOD YOU MAY PRAY TO.
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Clare53
08:33 PM on 06/12/2010
That sacred heart stuff is nonsense. I am so happy that I am an atheist.
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timm553
In vino veritas
10:16 PM on 06/12/2010
Hello, my sister.
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CJCalgirl
nothing breeds faster than stupid
02:09 PM on 06/13/2010
Clare, ALL invented AT and AFTER the council at Nicea! FANNED!! from a fellow atheist.
07:11 PM on 06/12/2010
This entire business about the Sacred Heart of Jesus is silly. Why not the sacred pancreas, or liver, or pituitary gland?

Forty-five years ago in Catholic grade school, the nun told us about a saint who had an enlarged heart but she didn't say it that way. Rather, the story goes, that this particular saint had a heart "twice the normal size because of the love of God." And that was supposed to be a good thing, something to which we small children might aspire.

The dear old sister probably died believing the most unbelievable things.

Does anyone know this fable and recall the name of the afflicted saint? I've long since forgotten.
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richdibo
Love the sin; hate the sinner.
05:03 AM on 06/13/2010
Ya, I had the nuns, too, with their cockamamy stories and frequent beatings. Most of them were bad teachers. The afflicted are the kids who were subject to such child abuse - physical, mental and emotional. They stifled educational advancement. And there are no saints. Young, developing minds fed that crap. What a waste! Most of the sisters should have been jailed for battery. The church should be called to task for the non-sexual physical and emotional abuse that many nuns and priests perpetrated.
07:12 AM on 06/13/2010
Oh yes there are saints. Just as the military creates generals, captains, privates, etc. The Church fails by teaching us that saints are somehow in god's special or active ranks when in fact they are nothing more than ordinary people recognized by the organization for good deeds or martyrdom or the like. You can believe in saints as you might believe in Lt. Col Oliver North. You don't have to like them or agree with the organization conferring the exalted rank but it's their tradition. Saints exist but angels do not. Praying to saints and dead people does as much good as praying to a plaster statue.

Another note about the poor saint who suffered from a heart that had swollen to twice its normal size because of the love of god: They didn't know back then what might have caused an enlarged heart so they attributed it to god's love. How charitable. People today still ascribe circumstances to god when they can't find a plausible or scientific explanation. God is always the fallback position further fostering faith in the unsupportable.
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DevonTexas
Eternal Optimism
03:05 PM on 06/12/2010
This doesn't answer the question, are people who are narcisstic and grandious child molesters? Or is it just child molesters are grandious and narcisstic? While I agree child molesters may have one or both of these traits, they are molesters first. That point doesn't come across in your piece.
07:06 AM on 06/13/2010
I've been asking Jimmy Martin to respond to my question to no avail. Why won't the pope issue a papal mandate forbidding priests being alone with minor children?
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nlightenup
Retired psychologist, responds to open minds.
05:42 PM on 06/13/2010
Not all narcissistic and grandiose people are molesters or rapists. All molesters and rapists are narcissistic or grandiose, or both.
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Uncle Bob
Darwin loves you.
11:28 AM on 06/12/2010
a simple suggestion: regardless of your religious convictions, lets not diddle little children.

Can we all agree on that?
07:07 AM on 06/13/2010
Ask the all-male priesthood of Martin and his Jesuits.
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Poorsarah
09:58 PM on 06/13/2010
Fanned and faved.
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curiousdwk
Global Citizen. Not Democratic, not Republican, n
10:11 AM on 06/12/2010
I got more out of the message from the psychologist than I did from the religious story. If anything, this entire article shows that we don't need religion to explain our foibles or to love other people to the point of developing empathy and compassion and love. We just don't need it.
07:21 AM on 06/12/2010
Interesting that so many atheists spend a considerable amount of time in the religon section bashing those who do believe like a disgruntled ex girlfriend. I especially enjoy the assertion that an atheist is so "enlightened" that he or she, through superior intelligence, has deduced that religion can't explain everything. Brilliant. Congratulations.
There is alot that atheism and science can't explain. For starters, What happened 2 minutes prior to the big bang? We know that matter and anti matter exist, but where did they come from? DNA is awfully complex - did it just come together when lighting struck a pool of algae? Then there's "self awareness" - free will, the ability to reflect on the fact that you exist and may be here for a reason. This, also from the algae pool?
Is love just a chemical reaction in the brain? How about hope? Neither can be scientifcally verified as existing. Is love just a myth that we bible thumpers blindly believe in? How about your conscience? Where did that come from? Isn't it true that the natural tendency is things is to move towards chaos? Why, then, do we have order?
Point is, religion doesn't answer everything, but neither does atheism. Point that high powered questioning, crticism and intellect at the idea of atheism for just a minute and you'll see what I mean.
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SocBeat
Bald and proud
10:42 AM on 06/12/2010
Where in the world did you get the idea that anybody claims that science, at our current level of understanding, is expected to explain everything? And don't you find it ironic that your criticism of science includes the words "big bang", "matter and antimatter", and "DNA"?

"There is alot that atheism and science can't explain." An odd statement. Atheism is one thing only - an assertion that god does not exist. It does not explain anything, although it can be accompanied by a lot of evidence for why it is true. Science, on the other hand, explains a lot. The things it may not yet explain are just that - things not yet explained. Your assertions contain bad science (like DNA originating in algae, which is of course a product of its own DNA), so I'll just leave them alone.

The fact is that science explains a lot. Enough to provide us with all the technology, medical knowledge, transportation and communications you take for granted. Religion, on the other hand, has an answer for everything and explains nothing. Absolutely nothing.
04:19 PM on 06/12/2010
But not everything, correct?
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Uncle Bob
Darwin loves you.
11:33 AM on 06/12/2010
"Is love just a chemical reaction in the brain? How about hope? Neither can be scientifcally verified as existing. Is love just a myth that we bible thumpers blindly believe in? "

There are two fallacies here. One) that atheists are somehow suggesting that love/hope doesn't exist. I'd like to see a single example of someone....anyone....suggesting that?

Two) the question is far simpler: is love/hope a physical property? I would hope the answer is "duh?". If it wasn't a physical thing, then you wouldn't be feeling it in your physical body, now would you?

People try a little too hard to confuse supernatural claims with physical realities. Calling love/hope supernatural makes as much sense as calling a tree supernatural. You are, at best, attempting to give added meaning to that which very obviously exists without the need of your supernatural layer of meaning. It exists with or without it.
04:25 PM on 06/12/2010
Thanks, but the question still stands. If there really is no God, creator, whatever, and everything is based on what we can see and prove, then love can't possibly exist.
Just a myth that people blindly cling to because we aren't "enlightened" enough
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rf dude
02:29 AM on 06/12/2010
" Feast of the Sacred Heart of Jesse " - makes it sound kinda, dunno, pre-Columbian or somthin'...
;;
02:57 PM on 06/13/2010
Feast of the Sacred Heart...you're right. It sounds downright Aztec and Mayan. All we need are some stone knives.