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07:09 AM on 08/07/2010
Mr. Bronfman, has it ever occurred to you why no Jews left in any Islamic country? or Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, etc... for that matter?
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08:09 AM on 08/07/2010
This is another of those 'Americanisms' that pop up now again on HP. I can't stop wondering where you get this stuff.
10:31 AM on 08/07/2010
I went to a lot of effort to list, by coutnry, the number of jews left in Arab coutnries and the numbers that left. It was not approved.
12:21 PM on 08/07/2010
This is pure deflect by Israel supporters. Israel needs to clean up its own house and get the NEOCONS out of power.

Once the major Israel antagonist is out of the pitcher it will be easier to focus on peace.
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DeniseA
Most Americans support Israel.
10:46 PM on 08/07/2010
I think it's posted down below.
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Fireslayer
03:37 AM on 08/07/2010
I like a lot in the article, but would like to hear the author enunciate a mirror image Palestinian position.

Justice to the Palestinians equals peace for Israel.

What are you doing to end the illegal and immoral occupation?
07:07 AM on 08/07/2010
Fireslayer, the so-called “Palestinians” are doing just fine. In Palestine today, there are three governments: Jordan, Israel and Gaza. The Muslims clearly own the vast majority of Palestinian lands; with Jordan alone occupying about 76% of pre- partitioned Palestine. Saying “what about the downtrodden Palestinians” is purely propaganda. All the left-wing Democrats & Muslims want to do is to carve up Israel. The liberals in Israel; being liberal, are willing to obilge. Yet the Islamic states in Palestine get to remain intact. Jordan & Gaza are the Muslim States in Palestine. If anything, the Palestinian Christians and Palestinian Jews are getting a raw deal. Yet the only complaint you liberals have is about the Palestinian Muslims; who are persecuting everyone else. Unbelievable.
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season555
Allaah knows best
07:49 AM on 08/07/2010
Amazing how tiny your knowledge about Palestine is...don't tell me, let me guess you are related to Sarah Palin aren't you? Awww I am jealous.
10:06 AM on 08/07/2010
Joe, you should go check out the wall. At three times the height of the Berlin Wall it stands as a reminder that the Palestinians are not doing "just fine." Of course, one would have to meet some Palestinians to really start to get the picture. Maybe live with some refugees in crumbling camp.
Fireslayer's question is a relevant one considering under international law and more treaties than you can shake a stick at, moving civilian populations into an occupied territory is illegal. The settlements that pepper the West Bank show the State of Israel's lack of respect for both the Palestinians and their own allies, with whom they have signed these treaties.
As far as the Palestinian Christians and Jews, they are also stuck in an occupied territory and, because they are still Arabs, can have as difficult a time as the Muslims.
I would urge you to really study this conflict and maybe even meet people on both sides of the issue.
10:05 AM on 08/07/2010
The Arabs started a war in 1967. They lost. they lost territory.

UN Resolution 242 says soem land need be returned ONLY for a permanent peace - as Egypt and Jordan made.
Thelonius
Lived in Middle East for
12:04 PM on 08/07/2010
Reality: On 5 June 1967, Israel attacked Egypt and thereby Jordan and Syria who shared mutual defense pacts with Egypt. The attack occurred just before Egypt's VP was to fly to Washington for a June 7th meeting with the Johnson administration to defuse the crisis between Egypt and Israel based on an agreement worked out in Cairo between Nasser and Johnson's envoy, Robert Anderson. In a May 30 cable to Johnson PM Eshkol promised not to attack Egypt until June 11 to give diplomacy a chance. When it heard about the June 7th meeting and the distinct possibility that war may ruled out, Israel decided to launch the war. In short Israel’s attack against Egypt was the first step in another massive land grab.

Menachem Begin, Minister in Eshkol's cabinet: "In June, 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him." (New York Times, 21 August 1982)

Furthermore, all Arab states have accepted UNSC Resolutions 242 and 338 as have the Palestinians in the 1993 Oslo Accords. Hezbollah has agreed to Res. 242 and Hamas has as well, subject to a Palestinian referendum and a connecting corridor between the West Bank and Gaza. Any reasonably informed person knows that Israel's ongoing brutal occupation of Arab lands and its accelerating dispossession and oppression of the native peoples is the only obstacle to peace.
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bksg
Proud of my Palestinian Heritage!
02:11 PM on 08/07/2010
JanP: As mentioned in Seth"s post: "I would urge you to really study this conflict and maybe even meet people on both sides of the issue." because your comments lead me to believe that you have listened to only one side.
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zbowling
software engineer, geek
01:50 AM on 08/07/2010
"Yet another way American Jewry must continue to help Israel is by its traditional political support here in the United States. Only a strong Israel which feels secure will be able to make the compromises necessary to ensure its future. However, even as we extend this political support, we should never stop questioning how we can make a "better Israel" a reality. "

This is a big part of the problem. Questions infinito are not answers. You are calling for the status quo. Israels insecurity complex is not Americans problem. It's not rooted in reality. It's a mental illness, and as the most powerful military force in the middle east, its absurd.
To keep supporting them until they feel secure enough to find their humanity and stop oppressing Palestinians is akin to coddling a monster child. If you want Israel to grow, it must be allowed to suffer the natural consequences for making war to solve all your problems. Perhaps if we didn't supply them with massive amounts of weapons, and leveled the playing field allowing them to feel actual fear they might find a real solution.
You haven't mentioned Palestinians or even considered their real insecurities or suffering. Consider Helen Keller. Tough love.
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02:07 AM on 08/07/2010
I'm afraid that your calling it a mental illness is too close to the truth. Once you play the game of assuaging the hysteria, you're caught in a trap.
Israel has a lot of tough questions to answer in the future. I'm sure they'll need help with that. Enough with the tired old accusations of "anti-semitism", and the "existential" question.
10:06 AM on 08/07/2010
All the strong support for the palestinains has not made them more ammenable to peace.
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realitytrumpsbull
Two 'alves of coconut!
12:50 AM on 08/07/2010
In other words, Israel's just one more country riding America's coat-tails, and if it wasn't for the US, they probably would have just about shriveled up and died, by now. I think one great opportunity for folks choosing to emigrate to the US is that they get to ditch their affiliation and relations with the Old World, and they don't even have to attend worship services or anything like that anymore, they can marry whom they damn well please, holy village elders and so forth generally be damned as well, because freedoms and liberties doled out selectively by such personages are questionable at best compared to the real freedom that one can generally exercise as an adult in the United States. You don't have to go to religious services every week, matter of fact, you don't have to attend at all. You can if you want, if that's your 'thing', but no one has the moral or social authority to stand over you, and force you to do that. How much real religious freedom is there, honestly, in countries like Israel or Saudi Arabia, or some other places? And, how much of it is really religion, and how much of it is just a cool way to hide money, and play politics or whatever?
12:24 AM on 08/07/2010
There is a universal truth, I believe, in what Mr. Bronfman has to say.

He states that it is just as important for Jews in Israel to see America as it is for Jews in America to see Israel. He is absolutely correct, and I would expand further.

The way to eliminate isolation for all peoples of all nations is by exposure to others.

I know of an example within the Muslim community. Dr. Akbar Ahmed has written two books, one on Islam in the Islamic world, one on Islam in the U.S. I haven't read the latter yet - it is new and I've only seen Dr. Ahmed interviewed on John Stewart (plus I met him a couple of times personally. One important theme is our misperceptions of cultural attitudes. By not knowing why cultures do what they do we form our prejudices and often display our worst fears.

We need to spread the idea of the elimination of ignorance.
12:23 AM on 08/07/2010
Israel should not be a religious nation, why a religious nation was created in post WW2, I can't fathom.
Religion and goverment are like oil and water, they don't mix well. The Zionist and Palestinians so be reunited with a Bill of Rights that protects those caught between the extremes...and it wouldn't hurt if we remembered that here, as well.
10:08 AM on 08/07/2010
How about all the Muslim states that are religious states, many make non-Muslims into 3rd class citizens. Saudi Arabia only allows Muslims to be citiznes and does not allow non-Muslims into Mecca.
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11:30 AM on 08/07/2010
Israel was created after WWII and why are you comparing Israel to unrelated nation states?
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nanjemoy
first, check your satire-o-meter.
12:47 PM on 08/07/2010
Naming the evils of Saudi Arabia and other repressive Muslim states does not absolve Israel, the US, or anyone of their obligations to do justice to those under their control (not even Andorra - yeah, I'm watching you Andorra)
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Imo Verit
11:52 PM on 08/06/2010
The Holy Land belongs to the pilgrims, the governments come and go.
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nanjemoy
first, check your satire-o-meter.
12:49 PM on 08/07/2010
Native Americans think Manhattan is Holy Land. Kick out Michael Bloomberg!
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antiprop1
See Things As They Are
11:46 PM on 08/06/2010
How to make Israel better? How about digging up the wailing wall and other religious areas of Jerusalem, putting them on a boat with the whole population of the country, and then settling in South Philly. That is the best contribution to the betterment of the world that Israel could ever make!
10:34 AM on 08/07/2010
Dig up the wailing wall an al Aqsa mosque adn the Dome of the Rock fall over.
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timetraveler2039
Choose peace.
11:30 PM on 08/06/2010
"Instead, what they (Israeli youth) see is a troubled Israel yearning for peace with its Arab neighbors, while unsuccessfully trying to extricate itself from over four decades of occupation over the Palestinians. They also don't understand why a minority - a powerful minority - believes that all of the land is God-given to us Jews, and that no compromise over it is possible."

There is no serious peace process....perhaps this younger generation of Israelis will be more open to discussion, dialogue....more willing to recognize the shame of occupation....more open to rebuild rather than destroy. I applaud Mr. Bronfman for broaching his ideas and I thank him for his words -- new paths toward fairness and justice. All things change....
10:12 AM on 08/07/2010
Posted by the PALESTINIAN news agency, Abu Mazen (Abbas) said

"I'm willing to agree to a third party that would supervise the agreement, such as NATO forces, but I would not agree to having Jews among the NATO forces, or that there will live among us even a single Israeli on Palestinian land,” he was quoted by Wafa, the official Palestinian news agency.
10:36 AM on 08/07/2010
Palestinain land includes Jordan and Israel and only a one state solution is acceptable to the PLO.:

THE PALESTINIAN NATIONAL CHARTER:
Resolutions of the Palestine National Council, July 1-17, 1968
Text of the Charter:
Article 1: Palestine is the homeland of the Arab Palestinian people; it is an indivisible part of the Arab homeland, and the Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.

Article 2: Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.

Article 3: The Palestinian Arab people possess the legal right to their homeland and have the right to determine their destiny after achieving the liberation of their country in accordance with their wishes and entirely of their own accord and will.
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AtlantaIconoclast
11:10 PM on 08/06/2010
The best way American Jews can support a healthy, truly liberal and democratic Israel would to demand an end to all colonization in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Unless the Palestinians get their land back, and all of it, a two state solution will fail.

Personally, I encourage people to consider two state condominialism, which is similar to a one state solution, yet one that honor the right of both Jews and Arabs to have sovereignty and autonomy in their respective locations throughout Palestine and Israel. Thus Jewish settlers could stay in the West Bank, but Palestinians could return to what is now Israel, as well. Look into it people. Google " two state condominialism" .
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rafstar
02:06 AM on 08/07/2010
that idea is interesting.
03:54 AM on 08/08/2010
This binational concept has been proposed by Jeff Halper and others but ignores the virulent racism and legally institutionalized discrimination against non-Jews within Israel (www.adalah.org). It is not limited to the OPT and would remain unresolved in any segregated system absent a national constitution guaranteeing equality for all. Before the intrusion of Zionism in Palestine, Jews, Muslims and Christians lived together comfortably with no conflict, and it is Jewish racism - not the Palestinians - who block an integrated one-state solution.
09:49 PM on 08/06/2010
Tell this to the flotilla.
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08:38 PM on 08/06/2010
Many posters here use this site as a springboard for their propaganda and charges of anti-semitism, all the while ignoring Mr. Bronfman's statement that unconditional support for Israel, right or wrong, is deeply problematic. This is what endangers Israel far more than ill-conceived and cruel rocket attacks or tunnels-the rabid uncritical defense of what is a human creation and therefore fallible, Israel. When asked to explain the "right to exist" and on what it is based, they flee to post in another place. They aggressively question, but fail to answer the tough questions themselves.
10:16 AM on 08/07/2010
I do not see jhow support for israel is dangerous to Israel but rockets that ahve killed people mean nothing. Can you explain your rationale?

What about unconditional support for the Palestinians - including support for suocide bombers and rockets?
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01:38 PM on 08/07/2010
Interesting that in regards to Israel you mention "support", but, in regards to the Palestinians, you write "unconditional support". In any event, unconditional support for either is dangerous. Many actions on both sides have absolutely no moral foundation or defense. They are just plain wrong. Unquestioning support, therefore, will be in support of these immoral actions and as the author says, "deeply problematic"
I'm amazed how often on this site, a poster will tell me what I believe and what I support just because I ask a question or pose another way of looking at the situation. My support for the Palestinians has never been unconditional. I've always taken the existence of Israel for granted. Somehow, there needs to be a real two-state solution. Make sense?
08:16 PM on 08/06/2010
i say we stop funding israel and question how we can make a better america with that money that is saved.
10:48 PM on 08/06/2010
You are so right 2.5 billion out of almost 15 trillion will make so much difference. Specially that they have to spend 75% of it here.
Thelonius
Lived in Middle East for
11:09 PM on 08/06/2010
Feeble response. All of the nearly $10 million US taxpayers give Israel in aid each and every day benefits Israel - money that is desperately needed here for Americans. Nor should we forget the $billions in tax deductible (how outrageous!!) donations sent to Israel by individuals and organizations to help maintain that country's illegal/belligerent and brutal occupation of Palestinian and other Arab lands as well as its ongoing dispossession and oppression of the native inhabitants.
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AtlantaIconoclast
11:13 PM on 08/06/2010
So what, they still use that money to buy weapons from us that are used to sustain an illegal occupation and colonization of the remainging 22 per cent of the original Palestinian homeland. Im beginning to suspect that the real anti Semites, are the supporters of Israel who only value the rights of certain Semites, the Jews.
10:16 AM on 08/07/2010
So, you want to force Israel into using nukes because they have no arms left?
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rafstar
07:51 PM on 08/06/2010
Jews... violently sent into diaspora but maintaining a straightforward spiritual and physical connection to the same land for thousands of years.... Immigrating back over hundreds of years, both chased and drawn to it, purchasing land, winning it outright, even in some circumstances violently evacuating arab villages during war time. In the open, in day light, with a war declared on them. Winning land again, and again, as a result of the catastrophic over confidence of foreign Arab leaders. 1967 borders are not magic. They are a way for Egypt, Jordan and Syria to say they never screwed up the situation big time with their massive blunders. This is so much more about saving face on the Arab street than any of you can understand. The ones left hanging in the wind are the Palestinians who are pushed and prodded to want more than they have the political or moral power to squeeze the Israelis for, even if there was a time that they could have had that and so much more...
Thelonius
Lived in Middle East for
09:03 PM on 08/06/2010
Very confusing comment. You seem to be unfamiliar with the historical record. I will confine my response to the June 1967 war:

REALITY: At 7:45 AM on 5 June 1967, Israel attacked Egypt and thereby Jordan and Syria who each shared a mutual defense pact with Egypt. The attack took place just hours before Egypt's VP was to fly to Washington for a June 7th meeting with the Johnson administration to defuse the crisis between Egypt and Israel based on an agreement worked out in Cairo between Nasser and Johnson's envoy, Robert Anderson. In a cable sent to Johnson on May 30, Israel’s PM Eshkol had promised not to attack Egypt until June 11 in order to give diplomacy a chance to succeed. However, on June 4, when it heard about the June 7th meeting and the distinct possibility that it would rule out war, Israel attacked Egypt the next day. In short, the 1967 war was another massive land grab by Israel.

Prime Minister Menachem Begin, Minister without portfolio in Eshkol's cabinet, while addressing Israel's National Defence College on 8 August 1982: "In June, 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him." (New York Times, 21 August 1982)
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rafstar
09:33 PM on 08/06/2010
"Promised not to attack until June 11." If only real life could be so scripted. And war no less? Let's just take your narrative at face value, there is not much to dispute about it. It still warrants considering that the Arab nations were testing and playing dangerously. Israel is a small nation that can ill afford to round up all of its troops (almost the entire Jewish male population) and keep them at the front waiting for Arabs to decide to attack first. Are you aware that even busses stop running because they are nationalized in time of war? I believe that moment was the third such preparation the nation had undergone in expectation of war that summer because of troop movement on the Egyptian side, with both times leading to a stand-down.

I don't dispute the land grab either, but again, these games of confidence that the Arabs played paved the way. But they are not games are they? Real results, death and loss. No question the big loser is the Palestinian. No question that those who handed them that unhappy desert are Arab leaders.
10:22 AM on 08/07/2010
You are ignoring Nasser blockading the straits of Tiran - and act of war. America pledged to keep the straits open back in 1956 and conviently forgot to do it when push came to shove.

You are ignoring an intercepted message ebtween King Hussein and nasser where Jordan said they would join the attack.

You are ignoring the Russian contribution to starting and maintaining the war. (Read "Foxbats over dimona" where this is all documented.)

You forget that Nasser told the UN Peacekeeping force to leave so he could move his army up to the 1949 Armistice lines and that the UN complied.

Above all, you seem to not know that Russia advised Nasser to send a small force int eh Sinai to provoke Israel and leave them no choice but to shoot and then (as you do) claim that Israel started it all.
12:11 AM on 08/07/2010
Aren't you just re-capping a movie, based on fiction?
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rafstar
01:55 AM on 08/07/2010
Aren't you just belittling one of the most storied people on this planet? Pick up a book some time.
07:50 PM on 08/06/2010
Next thing you know, we'll be discussing the possibility of a two state solution. Question: What about that young American citizen whose brains were blown out by Israeli commandos on that ship in international waters? Our President and Secretary of State didn't care about him. Perhaps you could help us out. Also, is Israel part of Connetticut?
10:29 AM on 08/07/2010
Wasn't he with the peaceful, unarmed group who stabbed an Israeli commando, armed with a paint gun, in the abdomen? Then the command had his abdomen sliced open and they pulled out some of his intestines and the command jumped into the water with his intestines hanging out.

Can you explain how the Lebanese are innocent in the flareup last tuesday? Do you know that the UN said that Israel was on their side of the border and Lebanon admits that they fired first?

Or, are we only supposed to care about what Israel does?