Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Bloggers
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page:  « First  ‹ Previous  1 2 3 4 5 (5 total)
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chw777
God and country
12:28 PM on 10/11/2010
Mrs Somerville,

It appears as though you feel that homosexuality is acceptable to God. On what do you base that belief? Are you basing it on your own opinion--making up your own religion?

Where do you get the idea that God condones and blesses it?
Since you reject Holy Scripture as being the Word of God, on what do you base your "Christian" beliefs? Sounds like you make up your own beliefs and they are at odds with what the Bible teaches.
photo
OuterBanx North12
Now with 33% MORE caffeine!
01:12 PM on 10/11/2010
So, then if your child is being disobedient to you, then you would do as the Bible teaches and have him/her stoned to death. I mean, that's what it says (Deuteronomy 21:18-21), and if it is the Word of God, then you must do it right? Oh, but you would never kill your own child, would you? No, because in our society, it's horrible for any parent to kill their child. But it's in the Bible. So then you pick and choose which rules you'll follow? And since hating homosexuals is so easy for Christians, well, that's the rule we'll focus on. But not stoning your child, well, hmmm...God's gonna be mad at you for ignoring him.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chw777
God and country
02:11 PM on 10/11/2010
You have no understanding of the Bible or Christianity. The scripture you quote was written to Jews. I am not a Jew.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
GeorgieMark
Cogito Ergo Sum
02:19 PM on 10/11/2010
If you take the entire scripture as literal fact then why don't you hate your mother, father, wife, children and yea your own self, as Jesus said in Luke 14:26

If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
7thcavman
05:25 PM on 10/11/2010
I don't hate mine but I have a strange feeling about yours. Can I still be a disciple?
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
01:07 AM on 10/12/2010
Catholics do not interpret all scripture as literal fact - not in the sense that you imply.

CCC
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a3.htm

Luke Chapter 14, with footnotes.
http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke14.htm
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chw777
God and country
12:00 PM on 10/11/2010
Christians are not afraid of homosexuals. They simply believe the God inspired scriptures that forbid it declare it to be a perversion.

Michele Somerville would be well served to just read the Bible and get her information from there.
Does she want the church to ignore Biblical teaching? Without the Bible there is no church.
photo
Let Y Be Any Other Man
Researcher. Gay. Atheist. Happy.
01:42 PM on 10/11/2010
I know I am never going to burst your confidence bubble, but here we go anyway...
Christians are indeed afraid of homosexuals. They hand out and proclaim statements with little to no true in them with the object of defending the privileged position of control they have enjoyed for so long. Christianity, being the mosaic of different institutions that it is, is afraid of admitting free thinkers into its ranks, therefore opposes and fears reason whenever it is contrary to its tenets.

God-inscribed scriptures is a judgement based only in a particular faith, and therefore is not generally valid. Furthermore, there is no evidence that the extremely scarce verses against certain homosexual behaviors refer to homosexuality and/or homosexuals as they are understood nowadays.

Surprisingly enough, and unlike many other denominations, the Vatican acknowledges that its teaching regarding homosexuality come not necessarily from the any book of the Bible (which also condemns many other things modern day Catholic hierarchy accepts or condones.) The main reason behind RCCs reject of homosexuality is not based on the bible, but on their understanding of and ad-hoc "Natural Law."
The church has ignored many biblical teachings, as it is its own teaching that certain biblical laws apply to modern day Catholicism, while others not.
Finally, There was no bible in the times of the early church. It was compiled, translated and interpreted BY THE CHURCH, and not on the contrary.
06:07 PM on 10/11/2010
"Christians are indeed afraid of homosexuals. "

Are you aware that many Christians are homosexuals?

I have homosexual Christian friends. They know my views on the matter of same sex "marraige", and friends regardless; and I count them among my friends.
01:44 PM on 10/11/2010
Jesus is the living word of God. If you have a problem believing that check out the first few verses of the Gospel according to John. Jesus had only two commandments and neither of them addresses sexuality. I suggest you find thise two commandments then read, mark, learn, and inwardly digest them; they have a direct bearing on attitudes such as yours. Further, the ten commandments that the early leaders determined to be the most important rules also do not address personal sexuality. All the rest of the rules come from typical human beings trying to keep 'a lid on things' during stressful times such as nomadic migrations and exile. I have become quite aware that there are several text worshipping churches that only recognize the Bible as their basis, thankfully there are many others that recognize Jesus as their basis - mine being one.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chw777
God and country
02:17 PM on 10/11/2010
Please read Romans chapter one.

Jesus two commandments--to love God and love your neighbor--are wonderful. God commands Christians to love the homosexual. But God hates sin. And it is clearly stated in Romans chapter one that homosexuality is a sin.

You recognize Jesus as your basis? From where did you learn about Jesus? Was it from the Bible?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chw777
God and country
10:37 AM on 10/13/2010
First Timothy

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God"

ALL means ALL.

Making up your own religion is fine, but leave Jesus out of it if you dont believe the Bible. It is the Bible that proclaims Jesus.
11:59 AM on 10/11/2010
Dear Michele,

Thanks for your heart-felt piece, it is very moving.

I was brought up in Protestant traditions and married to a Catholic wife. We have similar progressive views about social justice, grace and LGBT issues. I left my church but she remained.

I was slowly and surely driven out from my church when the teachings became increasingly selfish, from the so called personal salvation, the prejudice against homosexuals, the disrespect towards women to the cheering of wars. I chose to leave because I decided that I can no longer make a different from within. My wife and her fellow progressive Catholics hang on. Oftentimes I ridicule her for wasting her time dealing and working with the bigoted clergy and organizations like the Knights of Columbus in church activities. Her response is "This is our church, why should we leave?"

Thanks again for enlightening me on this difficult struggle.

- pico
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chw777
God and country
10:57 AM on 10/12/2010
Picostep--

Why go to church in the first place since you dont believe the Bible?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Angel1999
Microbiologist & Historian
05:08 PM on 10/12/2010
Picostep clearly interprets the Bible differently than you do.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
JohnFromCensornati
Wake up! It's 1984.
11:50 AM on 10/11/2010
"I told her a far greater percentage of Catholics support gay marriage than support the Vatican."

Really? Where do you get your statistics? Where do all these gay-marriage-supporting catholics disappear to on election days?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Angel1999
Microbiologist & Historian
03:12 PM on 10/11/2010
There part of the abysmally low turnout that affects most American elections.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Angel1999
Microbiologist & Historian
03:36 PM on 10/11/2010
"They're"
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Angel1999
Microbiologist & Historian
03:13 PM on 10/11/2010
That was an incomplete thought. In California, where close to 50% of the vote was against Prop 8, I suspect that a substantial number of them were Catholic.
02:46 AM on 10/11/2010
Michele, thank you for your biased opinion, which calls church hierarchy "bullies" and decides a religion that homosexuality is "not sin" despite its protestations to the contrary. Last I checked, the official teaching of Catholicism is the pope (only when speaking ex cathedra) was authoritative r.e. faith & morals. When did you get elected?
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Michele Somerville
11:06 AM on 10/11/2010
Angela Adams,

Last I checked all "opinions" were -- by definition --"biased."

The authoritative teaching of the Holy See has evolved dramatically, and has throughout history though not rapidly enough for some and too quickly for others.

The Vatican is careful to give lip service to the idea that homosexuality is not a sin, but it still considers all sex outside of sacramental marriage to be sinful. Insofar as it denies marriage to GLBT people who have sex to be sinners, the Vatican deems being gay, at least unofficially, as sinful.

As for your question, "When did you get elected?" I was called through Baptism and "elected" through Confirmation (where the word "elect" literally pertains!) to be an authority over my own Catholic soul. It is the duty of Catholics to help the church to evolve, to preserve its sanctity and to challenge man-made laws which fly in the face of the teachings, word and way of Christ.

I thank you for the comment.

MMS
11:04 PM on 10/11/2010
Actually, the Vatican deems engaging in homosexual acts sinful, but being homosexual itself is not a sin. There is a distinction. In the Vatican's eyes, heterosexuals and homosexuals who engage in sex outside of marriage commit the same sin- there is no difference. The Catechism teaches that all those who are Baptized are called to chastity, and that dignity of the person is an important matter.

Now- I am a supporter of gay marriage and gay rights. And I am a Catholic. I think there can be a difference between what is legally right and what one's religious views say is morally right. I don't see anyone cherry picking the Church for not allowing divorces and remarriages as easily as one can purchase a vehicle, like the government does. Not all marriages recognized in the state are "recognized" in the church. Gay marriage can, and should, be recognized independently of the church.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Thatcatdavid
07:37 AM on 10/12/2010
You like a lot of "writers" what ever that means are not even close to understanding Catholocisim. You certainly were not elected to spread a false gospel. How can you be for homosexuality when it is even against basic natural law. Where did you learn that? Try this.
Chastity and homosexuality: Catechism of the Catholic Church: 2357:
"..Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that 'homosexual acts are intrinsically disorder'. You literaly proved that in your post, their tendency towards suicide, right. Did you even look at the Catechism of the Catholic Church before you wrote this article, do you own one?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Angel1999
Microbiologist & Historian
03:12 PM on 10/11/2010
The Vatican long ago gave up it's moral authority with repression of science, crusades that slaughtered innocent people, and now covering up child rape. The idea of the Pope being God's representative on Earth is a relic of another age. Because of this moral leadership vacuum, normal Catholic laypersons find they are often better qualified to answer questions of morality than an old man in a funny hat in Rome.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Michele Somerville
10:22 PM on 10/10/2010
Golden Thread: I thank you for writing. My brother was divorced when he came out of the closet and had no children. I agree that innocent women suffer when they discover that the men they love are gay. People who grow up believing that being gay is sinful often attempt to fix the problem by acting straight. The heartbreak to which you allude is often a consequence of men being made to feel that homosexuality is a moral defect. Gay men and lesbians who are comfortable with their sexual identity have no cause to "correct" their sexual identity or pretend to be straight. The lie is a symptom of and response to homophobia.
12:31 AM on 10/11/2010
Cont. from previous post..

Whilst I can empathise with gays wanting the same things as their heterosexual couples within the church, as far as I am concerned, they can have it. It will, after all, only help contribute to a Church that is already misogynist to the core, whilst being ambivalent about the safety of it’s own children to sexual predators within the church.

This is not a church for women and children, but only for the continual oppression of them. So my advice would be for all women and children to get the ‘hell’ out, value your own worth, because they certainly haven’t! With a mass departure of women, we know for certain that this institute just could not survive the way it has, because it would no longer have slaves in the forms of it’s women and children, like for instance, saying that to ordain a woman is a far worse a crime than the sexual abuse of children.

Anyone still wanting to belong to a church like this in the 21st century with these attitudes, is beyond belief. Let the real discussion about sexuality begin, without the interference of religion and political lobbying. Then some real truth will be allowed to emerge as we let go of our securities and insecurities that religion and the gay politics have a stranglehold on, that hasn’t allowed us to grow and become, both as individuals and communities.
07:02 PM on 10/11/2010
Apologies for the misunderstanding, but I actually was referring to the fact that he'd only 'come out' not long before before his death, when I referred to the 'manner' in which he died.

I'm replying here, since you have inadvertently split the original post I made in response to you.

Re your comments about the church, I think that many people are not only unhappy, but extremely furious that they too had once considered the church a kind of 'family' (not sure about the nation thingy though, this seems to be more of an American understanding, as the church has always considered itself universal in nature, but that's another story), and in the wake of discovering that this was not the case for the marginalised and oppressed within the church, much anguish and 'gnashing of teeth' has been born in response to a church who's paradigm, suited to Medieval times, is breaking up.

All I can say is that you only have to view the comments above to see the dichotomy of either/or at play, yet again. Until some real discussion gets going on this topic, without the bias's of religion and gay lobbying, we will only continue playing the game of your wrong and I'm right - there is only understanding the human being within this. The term, 'homosexuality', was really only coined just over a hundred years ago, which seems to have lent itself to creating this dichotomy in the first place. Perhaps a place to begin?
09:28 PM on 10/10/2010
"I wanted my children to witness my brother's freedom to claim his right to love in a committed, authentic, whole and holy way. I jumped at the chance to present "Uncle Frank" to my children and saw the opportunity to do so as a blessing, for there may be no lesson more important than teaching children to eschew bigotry in all its guises."

Can I ask if your brother was married prior to his coming out? And children, if any? If so, what may have happened to them? It would seem there are many women and children being left to fend for themselves after such revelations of 'authentic' lifestyles of these men. Whilst I do not have a problem with individuals acknowledging freely their new found 'gay' status, I do have a problem with the damage that they can reek on unsuspecting families....just how is this reconciled within Christianity/Catholicism? Just how do their sons process this new found information?
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
08:52 PM on 10/10/2010
Thank you for this piece. Many people may find an active LGBT Catholic as an inherent contradiction. How could one belong to a group that actively denounces one's essential being? I get asked this all the time. But i remind the asker that the Church is not monolithic. As with any body, the Church is a vast tent of diverging opinions and viewpoints, some at odds with each other. I stay active because I want to be part of the progressive reform movement, operating from within, showcasing all that is right and wonderful, spiritual and communal. It seems like a never ending uphill battle but I remain dedicated with your support and the support of many local parish priests, religious and lay persons. Raising a family with my partner in the Catholic tradition will always be a challenge but I am truly proud of the people of my parish and I wouldn't dream of having it any other way.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Carla Ownwomon
Proud bold progressive
08:29 PM on 10/10/2010
Nice article. Very thought provoking.
photo
LintLass
"When you can balance a tackhammer on your head...
04:52 PM on 10/10/2010
Thanks for that one. It's not news to me, really, but for the sake of those who stay Catholic or Christian that I care about, that massive dysfunction at the heart of that church hierarchy (and I think theology, come down to it, but much of that's optional. It's destroyed enough families and enough people already.

So would, I'm aware, a sudden vacuum. The Vatican's doubling down on old injustices, partly betting on that fear. But that won't hold, anyway: the more they try to increase the homophobia, the more they tear themselves and societies apart, the more they stir these storms that catch the innocent. So I figure it's on folks like you, if you want those services to ever really be pretty again.

I happen to think queer folks actually make pretty decent clergy, given the chance, but not if someone makes of it a sentence and daily shame and repression of it. Not if people never grow up before they get called 'Too bad of sinners to be anything else.'
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Ioan Lightoller
Proud Gay Pagan Man, Living Happily With Husband
10:30 PM on 10/10/2010
Fortunately, the Church will tear itself apart and there will hopefully be a better, healthier Catholic Church. What is here now clearly needs to go. My hat is off to those Catholics who refuse to buy into the homohatred of the hierarchy, laity, priests, or religious.
photo
LintLass
"When you can balance a tackhammer on your head...
05:35 PM on 10/11/2010
Well, I think the fact that the Church dogma can't find anything more useful to do than seek for ever more corrupt and frenetic sexual control means there's something really rotten in Christianity, but you'd think in a world like this they could find something useful to do with all that power they've been gathering.

Madness in great ones must not unwatched go. Know what I'm saying?
photo
Carroll27
Orthodox
09:13 PM on 10/11/2010
Hmm. Yeah, in case you haven't noticed, we've had 2000 years of persecution and wars to be torn apart. It ain't happened yet, and you know what? I don't think it's going to happen because of you.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
10:49 AM on 10/10/2010
Dear Michele,
Thank you for a beautiful and heartfelt essay. I've posted it to my facebook page and tweeted it.
Best regards,
StephenKMackSD
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Michele Somerville
10:59 AM on 10/11/2010
StephenKMAckSD --

Many thanks.

MMS