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ChuckChuckerson
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07:13 PM on 01/31/2011
Chicago and New York are two of the best examples of heavy gun control. Look at how successful it has been in those cities.

Remember when we had the "War on Drugs", and now you can't get drugs anywhere anymore and nobody does drugs? Gun control works just like that.

It's a nice placebo to allow politicians to say "Look! I did something about crime!" when the real solution to crime (education and employment opportunities for poor Americans) might not be so politically palatable for the wealthy interests that control our government.
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ChiGuy
Just an earthbound misfit, I
07:18 PM on 01/31/2011
You pro-gun folks like to trot out that Chicago gun law nonsense every time one of these threads appears.

While there was a law in place, it was never enforced. I know, because I have 3 friends on the C.P.D., and they each have told me that it was not just a non-priority, but that they were told, off the record, to ignore it whenever possible because the city knew that the law would eventually be overturned and all the cases would be thrown out.
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RevJimIII
Grin and Barret...
07:20 PM on 01/31/2011
Ignore is not a valid legal act, any law on the books can still be applied.
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eljefefx
07:20 PM on 01/31/2011
Sounds to me like your friends don't do their jobs.
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elizlucinda
a mind is a terrible thing to waste
07:45 PM on 01/31/2011
chuckchuckerson: why don't you compare the United states to say,...a country like Canada?
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RevJimIII
Grin and Barret...
07:58 PM on 01/31/2011
Why? When the societies and legal structures are completely different? Apples and oranges anyone?
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ChuckChuckerson
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08:13 PM on 01/31/2011
Canada has less crime because they have a more responsible government that takes much better care of it's citizens.

Crime stems from hopelessness and poverty, not availability of guns. Canada has a pretty high rate of gun ownership with comparatively little crime so you could just as easily use Canada to make the argument that guns DON'T cause crime.
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ChiGuy
Just an earthbound misfit, I
07:11 PM on 01/31/2011
EVERY firearm transaction should be subject to the scrutiny of a waiting period and a background check, at the very least.
07:18 PM on 01/31/2011
Should my father be required to perform a background check on me before transferring my great-grandfather's WW1 sidearm to me? And how long should I have to wait?
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ChiGuy
Just an earthbound misfit, I
07:20 PM on 01/31/2011
Yes. 10 days.
anothervoice2
332 electoral votes is a mandate
08:23 PM on 01/31/2011
Yup. Or notify the authorities of transfer of ownership of said firearms and permits - so law enforcement can run that check. What do you fear?!
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RevJimIII
Grin and Barret...
07:19 PM on 01/31/2011
Would you apply those restrictions to all other rights? Do you have proof that waiting periods have done anything to reduce violent crime?
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ChiGuy
Just an earthbound misfit, I
07:21 PM on 01/31/2011
"All other rights" don't apply to a device manufactured for one purpose and one purpose only: ki||ing.
anothervoice2
332 electoral votes is a mandate
08:24 PM on 01/31/2011
Waiting periods are to allow for background checks. It is also logical that if someone is irate, a waiting period is a cooling off period.
Or do logic and common sense evade you?!
07:01 PM on 01/31/2011
"proof that current gun-control regulations are ineffective at keeping firearms out of the hands of criminals, the mentally ill and others"

This is an example of ineffective regulations. Another example can be found much closer to home for Bloomberg. Heroin has been illegal to sell or possess for 103 years and yet is readily available virtually anywhere in New York City. Since drug control has been so successful and costs about 40 billion per year to enforce, prosecute and incarcerate let's throw an equal amount down the gun control toilet and congratulate ourselves for solving the problem.
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juabdib
Man created god in his own image...
07:37 PM on 01/31/2011
Your comment is completely incorrect. Heroin use is down 90% since Guiliani was mayor and is hardly even available in New York. Where did you get your info? Sarah Palin or Michelle Bachmann? The two biggest liars out there.
07:43 PM on 01/31/2011
How bout cocaine or pot? How well did Prohibition control alcohol use?
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greeneyes51654m
Retired, finally...
10:21 PM on 01/31/2011
Heroin is down 90%? Pure speculation. There is no way to accurately prove that heroin sales or any other drug for that matter is down in sales. That's nothing but public misinformation to make everyone feel better.
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greeneyes51654m
Retired, finally...
10:23 PM on 01/31/2011
I totally agree with your post.
06:55 PM on 01/31/2011
This is a sound byte to get Bloomberg's face in the news in pre-election cycle coverage. Somebody go to NYC and buy herion then wave your arms around about how easy it was.
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juabdib
Man created god in his own image...
07:38 PM on 01/31/2011
Incendiary comment...considering the crystal meth sold on your block.
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Eric Flanagan
He who stands for nothing falls for everything.
06:46 PM on 01/31/2011
Why can't more Republicans be like Bloomberg. I'd seriously consider voting for him or a similar candidate.
07:13 PM on 01/31/2011
He's only a republican relative to New York City. It's hard to think of more than 3 or 4 states that he'd be able to carry in a republican primary against any other mentally fit candidate....... Hm, maybe you do have a point.
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EndRacismNow
Advocatus Diaboli
07:18 PM on 01/31/2011
The guy is a billionaire globalist. There is very little that is Republican about him besides the fact that he likes money.
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rikster
buy the ticket-take the ride
06:36 PM on 01/31/2011
His Majestic Honor Mayor-for-Life Mike should worry more about NYC...snow removal and how he is destroying small business in the city. this is just a distraction to take away focus from the real problems.
anothervoice2
332 electoral votes is a mandate
06:50 PM on 01/31/2011
The snow was cleared fine last snow storm.
Or are you suggesting Bloomberg is responsible for the snow accumulation?! Weather is his responsibility too?!
06:57 PM on 01/31/2011
If by accumulation you mean he failed miserably at taking care of the citizens of NY. Yes.
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ChuckChuckerson
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06:31 PM on 01/31/2011
Lets be honest here; this isn't really about background checks. If this was about background checks then Bloomberg would be proposing that the NICS background check be opened up to private individuals.

Currently only licensed gun dealers are able to use this system for background checks. This is a simple, very sensible and effective system. You would also find a surprising amount of support for something like this amongst the gun-owning community. You can't be mad at private sellers for not performing background checks when they CAN'T.

But instead, Bloomberg wants an outright ban on the private sale of guns; something that would be basically unenforceable anyway.

He wants this instead of a simple and effective way to facilitate background checks for private guns sales.

So, tell me again, how is this about background checks, or even public safety?
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serialcoma
Friends don't let friends watch Fox
06:34 PM on 01/31/2011
I don't seem to be able to find anything credible that substantiates your claim that Bloomberg wants to ban guns.. care to try again?
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ChuckChuckerson
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06:39 PM on 01/31/2011
I said that he wants to effectively ban the private sale of guns, which is substantiated by this article.
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rikilii
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
06:40 PM on 01/31/2011
Let me walk you through it.

1.  He wants to require private sellers to conduct background checks.
2.  It's not possible for private sellers to conduct background checks.
3.  Making something impossible is the same as banning it.

Get it now?
anothervoice2
332 electoral votes is a mandate
06:34 PM on 01/31/2011
Perfect parroting of NRA talking points. If the gun show dealers cannot perform background checks, they should get such a system.
No it is not about outright ban on "private sales" to anyone and everyone (mentally ill or criminal). It is about checks and balances. Why does the NRA want the criminal or mentally unstable armed?!!
06:39 PM on 01/31/2011
"Why does the NRA want the criminal or mentally unstable armed?!!"

What makes you think they do?

Your assertion makes no more sense than suggesting the ACLU wants murderers to remain safe from unreasonable search and seizure.
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rikilii
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
06:41 PM on 01/31/2011
You don't read too well, do you?

The latest bill introduced in Congress to require private sellers at gun shows, provides no mechanism for private sellers to conduct background checks.

NRA talking point or not, it's a fact, pure and simple.
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zlohcuc
"Serving millions from atop the Allegheny"
06:21 PM on 01/31/2011
Ohhh, what a shocker. Does anyone really care? Look around you or just open up the newspaper in any American city. The gun violence is there every day. You would need to be a speed reader to get through the incidents in Chicago in any given month. And yet the second amendment will continue to trump all reason regarding steps that could be taken to responsibly address the issue.You have dozens of people being gunned down at V-Tech and Tucson and instead of contemplating serious reponses we get "State gun" legislation in Utah and federal reps proposing carry laws for the house floor.We are not yet at the serious stage in these discussions..by a long shot.
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theRealAmerica
bruised,battered and scarred...but hard
06:20 PM on 01/31/2011
This is a real question...I don't collect anything that I can't use. In fact, I guess I don't see the point in it...So for the gun lovers here, please explain to me the point of owning assualt weapons. What is the point to stock piling ammo. Why would anybody need armour piercing bullets? Why would anyone be upset about banning plastic guns, guns with handles that won't hold fingerprints or the banning of bored out barrells so that ballistics can't be done?

If it's all about protection...what is the argument? I really want to know.
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rikilii
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
06:25 PM on 01/31/2011
Talk to us when you've figured out the pointless atrocity that is stamp collecting.

PS:  there's no such thing as plastic guns or guns that won't hold fingerprints, and armor-piercing handgun ammunition was already banned long ago with the help of the NRA.
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theRealAmerica
bruised,battered and scarred...but hard
02:32 PM on 02/03/2011
Plastic Guns...then why was there a vote to ban them?
Armor piercing bullets...yeap banned...except for these 30000- http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/armourpiercing-bullets-ordered-for-wa-prisons-20090904-fazx.html
InYourWorld
Progressive, educated, redneck but fan of no party
06:27 PM on 01/31/2011
Plastic guns dont exist, but the Brady Center and VPC wont admit to that.

Bored out barrels? Other than a shotgun nothing else is like that.

'Assualt' rifles (Brady Center coined term) are rarely ever used in crime, so they aren't the problem.

Your statements show that you and many others dont have the knowledge of the facts and rely on the anti gun lobby to provide your 'information' Look around and research things from both sides, you may learn something.
anothervoice2
332 electoral votes is a mandate
06:30 PM on 01/31/2011
If those rifles are rarely used in crime, show us a non-NRA link to prove that. Yes, you need to prove that

The NRA will not allow any independent body to conduct such studies. They sure are afraid of the truth.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/us/26guns.html?_r=1
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greeneyes51654m
Retired, finally...
10:05 PM on 01/31/2011
Well said, very well said. FANNED!!!
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OliverTwist
Contrarian advocate for truth and justice
06:14 PM on 01/31/2011
"Obama has signed into law bills that permit the carrying of concealed weapons on trains and in national parks. Last January, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence gave him an "F" for his first year in office."

That's the more than more of the same attitude we should have expected from Obama - but mostly didn't.

Too bad.
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eyelashviper
In wilderness is the preservation of the world
06:16 PM on 01/31/2011
and still the voices from the NRA and their minions yelp and cry, "waaaaaaa, he's gonnna take our guns away."
InYourWorld
Progressive, educated, redneck but fan of no party
06:28 PM on 01/31/2011
The NPS provision was in the Fair Credit act, it would have been a political catastrophe for Obama for veto that. If it was a stand alone bill it would have definitely been axed by Pres Obama.
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MmeFlutterbye
Mmeflutterbye
06:01 PM on 01/31/2011
"Although federally-licensed gun-dealers are required to make background checks before selling guns, private and supposedly "occasional" dealers are not required to conduct such checks. "

How insane is that???? Why even have the law if this is so? The NRA has the government by the short hairs. I used to think that the only way this outrage could be fixed is if one of our politicians were shot by an illegally - bought weapon. Now I see that that isn't even true. Instead our politicians are advocating everyone carry a concealed weapon, in the chambers, at sports events, and even in church.
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BlueOnBlue
We're in this together
06:08 PM on 01/31/2011
The other insane thing is that the federal database is supposed to be able to keep mentally ill people from getting guns, but states are not required to report to the database. Many don't bother at all and some, like Arizona, report only a small fraction of their cases.
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EndRacismNow
Advocatus Diaboli
06:14 PM on 01/31/2011
Well that is a simple fix without having to infringe on law abiding gun owners. If gun control advocates proposed reasonable fixes like this, I wouldn't have a problem. Unfortunately, their solutions are unrealistic and draconian.
06:17 PM on 01/31/2011
And every gun owner I know is absolutely in favor of requiring states to report this information and holding them 100% accountable for any failure to do so.

We do not have a problem with background checks. Perhaps this is one area in which we can find enough common ground to make some progress.

Side note: Nice usage of "insane" and "mentally ill" in that first sentence.
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eljefefx
07:22 PM on 01/31/2011
"Instead our politicianĀ­s are advocating everyone carry a concealed weapon, in the chambers, at sports events, and even in church. "

/slow clap.

Bravo, bravo. A brilliant act.
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samtee
Shankapotomus.
05:58 PM on 01/31/2011
If they're selling them illegally put them in jail.
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theRealAmerica
bruised,battered and scarred...but hard
06:21 PM on 01/31/2011
But the loophole is the reason that they're not being sold illegally....just immorally...
05:35 PM on 01/31/2011
bloomberg should take care of new york. it's an old political hack's trick to try and smear others to take the spotlight of themselves.
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NWBrunette
Blessed Girl
05:49 PM on 01/31/2011
Good work not comprehending the article.
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samtee
Shankapotomus.
06:00 PM on 01/31/2011
And the more he talks about it the more vote's he looses
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BlueOnBlue
We're in this together
06:09 PM on 01/31/2011
Not in NYC. It apparently has a lot of sane people.
05:35 PM on 01/31/2011
No Arizona person violated any law.

I believe Bloomberg tried this in Georgia before and the US Dept of Justice Director, Michael A. Battle, sent a letter dated Feb. 6, 2007 advising Bloomberg of legal consequences for what they are doing, and to stop.

I believe NY residents aren't supposed to purchase guns outside of NY.

Sounds like they maybe committed felonies and should be prosecuted. Arrest warrants should be issued for them and for Bloomberg who conspired to violate federal and State law, including actually violating the Gun Control Act of 1968.

The conspiracy sounds like it may violate the RICOH statues too.

Sounds like the only criminals here are the Mayor and his co-conspirators.

I heard once before about government officials who "arranged" (conspired) to do things otherwise illegal, under "color of office"

Is that the "Watergate" defense?

When will the Federal indictments come down arresting the Mayor and Residents of NY who committed these violations of Federal law?

Inquiring minds want to know.
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serialcoma
Friends don't let friends watch Fox
05:38 PM on 01/31/2011
You're incorrect.  Look up gun show fed regulations.
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pkafin
05:40 PM on 01/31/2011
Simmer down 1RPB1.

I don't think your accusations will be taken seriously by any law enforcement agency. There are bigger things to worry about.
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JakeAZ
You can see my MACRO-bio for a small fee.
05:29 PM on 01/31/2011
AZ has anything goes gun laws? OMG I had no idea!

(And in other nooz, water is wet.)
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rikilii
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
05:49 PM on 01/31/2011
So does Vermont, along with the the second lowest homicide rate in the country (after NH and Iowa, both of which also have "anything goes gun laws")
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theRealAmerica
bruised,battered and scarred...but hard
06:06 PM on 01/31/2011
I live three city blocks from a neighborhood that has one of the highest gun murder rates in the country...my neighborhood...the lowest...that said...I really don't get your point...we live under the same states laws...yet people are still dying to gun violence...
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MmeFlutterbye
Mmeflutterbye
06:07 PM on 01/31/2011
Another NRA mantra.