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02:54 AM on 02/15/2008
Thank you, David.
02:17 AM on 02/15/2008
Just boggles my mind that no one calls Hillary on her dishonesty. I guess she is being packaged by the big corporations to be the next president. I hope she does not get in-but the biggest corporations in the world are supporting her for president. It will be like having another Bush in the WhiteHouse.
11:16 PM on 02/14/2008
The Clinton Manifesto: When caught in a lie, lie and say that you didn't lie, continue to lie until the original lie becomes a facsimile of the the truth, but remember the new "truth" is a lie and can be lied about if the truth, old or new, becomes "uncomfortable." Lies are the new truth. The truth is a lie. When you tell the truth, you lie. And when you lie, you are telling the truth. To tell a lie about the truth is to tell the truth, except for when you tell a lie.

For example: I supported NAFTA when I thought about whether or not I might have voted against it if I had been against it or even asked about it and would have been against it if I hadn't been for it in order to show how much I opposed it because I was actually for it and not against it as I previously stated that I was, even when I was not and I still am.
09:36 PM on 02/14/2008
Muh-muh-muh MY SIROTA! You the man. I bet there are more quotes than those...

Bill Clinton's presidency looks good through the lens of 8 years of Bush, but people forget how many issues on which he was either ineffective or just plain wrong. Hillary's campaign has not been able to effectively distance her from the negatives of those years, perhaps because they gambled on Americans falling for their mis-memories. That strategy works for a little while, but we're seeing it crumble over the course of an extended campaign. In a way, it's lucky this has gone on for so long, since it was bound to happen in the general election and this way we'll see what we avoided.
09:29 PM on 02/14/2008
Let us not forget that one of the main selling points of NAFTA was that it would reduce illegal immigration from Mexico. That sure worked out really well.
08:08 AM on 02/15/2008
Probably would be useful, when evaluating all corporate selling points, to just reverse everything they say. Then you would have the bare naked agenda, and a very accurate idea of what to expect. This would have been particularly helpful during the selling of NAFTA.

The Clintons seem to have no moral center, and they definitely have no shame.

David Sirota is a national treasure. This column is outstanding, even for him - it's a much-needed reality check and I hope it is widely distributed.
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09:23 PM on 02/14/2008
I am having trouble remembering how mmany years she claims now to have had experience but somehow it had to include her time as the white house wife when she gained experience while the NAFTA issue was Bills big win. She didn't have any bad things to say about NAFTA until she was in the middle of her run for president. Too bad she wasn't psychic so she would know then what she knows now, just like her war vote and keep her mouth shut all those times she sang the praise for NAFTA and the war in Iraq. Some things we common people remember well. She is getting a bit too obvious about her merely using her senate vote to bolster her status to run for president. Also way too bad that the people in New York have never figured out she has always voted not for reasons she should have with thought of actually what impact the vote would have on those who elected her but merely to show how she would be seen when she ran for president. I am sure the intent she has while voting is never what those who vote and live in New York thought they were getting. And they still support her! Sad.
09:10 PM on 02/14/2008
Friend, this is an insult to American intellegince, two quote, NONE of which are directly from her, VS People who knew her when, and biographers... hmmmm. tough choice, but for ObamaBots the truth means little, but smearing other candidates as lying when doing it yourself is ok...
09:35 AM on 02/15/2008
It is also supported by all her votes in the senate including the defense contractor friendly funding bills, the port-barrel spending for corporate interests in NY and her support of the bankruptcy legislation, both in 2001 and 2006. Hillary is totally DLC all the way - more than just an insult to our intelligence but an insult to her oath of office. Actions speak much louder than words.
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timm0
I'm not top 0.01% - so it must be because I'm lazy
10:22 AM on 02/15/2008
HRC loyalists struggle with some matters of principle like this. But you are right in saying that these are not direct quotes - and reporter impressions should always be vetted. Still, concluding that ANYTHING that isn't a direct quote is a "lie" isn't right, either.

What you miss here is that HRC has been using "the prosperity of the 90s" as part of her platform, including 8 years of Bill's reign, as proof of her vast 35 years of experience in solving problems. That is something you can't deny.

However, the sword cuts both ways. If you're going to claim that everything was great in the 90s and that you were a part of it, then you also have to take the kicks to the head for the stupid crap from the 90s - like NAFTA.

Doesn't matter what she may have personally felt at the time. The fact is that she's bolted herself to those accomplishments and claims (demands) credit for the good things and sniffs at the suggestion that she also then take the slaps for the bad things. Well, you can't have it both ways. If she just picked accomplishments from youth and during Senate, then I'd back her up on this.

We all saw this same flawed logic when dumbya came on board. Everything that went wrong in the economy was because of Bubba. Remember? And everything that went well previously was because of raygun and pops. It's a dishonest, low-brow stunt when dumbya did it. And it's dishonest and low-brow when HRC does it.

So I don't care how exact these quotes are. They are really immaterial to the issue because she previously made the conscious decision to take credit for Bubba's work. Maybe if she promises to to demand that all "free trade" agreements be re-written to take into account all the problems associated with it (i won't delve into them here), then I could change my perspective. But that won't happen.
08:52 PM on 02/14/2008
I'm in constant amazement at both the long and short term memories of the American public. It's ludicrous for either of the Clinton's to say that they didn't know what the result would be.

NAFTA and CAFTA were both written by and for corporations and they both knew it.

Fair trade is a great thing for everyone, but somehow the "fair" part always seems to get left on the cutting room floor.
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SShaw490
War doesn't decide who is right, just who is left
09:48 PM on 02/14/2008
Well, keep in mind that Bill and Hillary both claim they opposed the Iraq war from the beginning. You don't even have to go back to 1998 and a (now) relatively obscure trade agreement to find them saying that up is really down. There's a lot to recommend Hillary, no matter what side of an issue that you like, she's supported it somewhere along the line. Sometimes, people think of that kind of thing as political cowardice. Sometimes people think it's just lying. But to Hillary-ites, it's "keeping your options open".
10:55 PM on 02/14/2008
I've been following politics for over forty years and I've never been a happy camper. My irritation is more at the public apathy than the spinners.
A funny sounding little fellow from Texas named Perot warned that this was going to happen and everyone called him a nut.
He's been relegated to obscurity too. Remember his classic "giant sucking sound" as jobs went south of the border. Well, guess what?
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johnnygoodwud
08:32 PM on 02/14/2008
once again showing her true colors. i also hear she has sold her donor mailing list to some big marketing firm. nice, screw the people who trusted and believed in you. america wake up, you're being used
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nacilbuper
The Pro in Progressive!
09:01 AM on 02/15/2008
not sold, rented out.

http://www.hillaryproject.com/index.php?/en/story-details/hillary_clinton_campaign_sold_mailing_lists_to_spammers/
08:08 PM on 02/14/2008
Wow. Actually, according to Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton didn't even endorse NAFTA:

TIME: Do you think NAFTA [the North American Free Trade Agreement, signed by Bill Clinton] was the right thing to do?

CLINTON: I think NAFTA was, in principle, a good idea to try to create a better trading market between Canada and the United States and Mexico. But I think the terms that it contained, and how it was negotiated under the Bush Administration and the failure to have any tough enforcement mechanism, like pollution on our border with Mexico, for example—

TIME: That was your husband's Adminstration, wasn't it? Because I recall a lot of debate about it not having labor standards and environmental standards.

CLINTON: But it was inherited. NAFTA was inherited by the Clinton Administration.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1584649,00.html
-------------------------------

If history sucks, rewrite it.
02:50 AM on 02/15/2008
What a great line -- "If history sucks, rewrite it."

It works for George W. Bush as well as both Clintons.

A bi-partisan whammie.

Not to mention a thousand other uses for it -- from Stalinists to Maoists to Bushites. Those in charge of history will, inevitably, try to re-write it.
07:59 PM on 02/14/2008
She was wrong on Iraq and won't admit it.

She was wrong on NAFTA and won't admit it.

Instead of discussing facts, she tries to mislead the public and play the outraged , misrepresented candidate in a sleazy effort to undercut an opponent.

Hopefully, the American people have already had enough of that.
09:47 PM on 02/14/2008
you would think so after bush doing that for so long but i guess she figured that if it worked for Bush it will work for her.
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laurenc
07:55 PM on 02/14/2008
there are so many ironies and tragedies in this election--who'd have imagined that the candidate whose only constituency may end being the white working class would actually represent a point of view--as did Obama, until, gasp, yesterday--antithetical to their interests.
07:53 PM on 02/14/2008
I clearly remember Perot debating Clinton about NAFTA, and Perot said "If this goes thru, you'll hear a giant sucking sound of all the jobs leaving the US". One of the reasons I voted for Perot twice.

She wants us to count Bill's terms as her "experience", well NAFTA was part of that.

Typical spin, like her Iraq vote.

NEVER ADMIT TO ANYTHING - the Clinton guiding principle. Deny, lie, spin. I've had enough of that with Bush.
No thanks.
outnow
Ban the bomb
07:46 PM on 02/14/2008
In her memoirs, Hillary Clinton writes, "by late August {Treasury Secretary Lloyd} Bentsen, Secretary of State Warren Christopher and economic advisor (sic) Bob Rubin were adamant about postponing health care reform and moving forward with NAFTA. They believed the free trade agreement was also critical to the nation's economic recovery and NAFTA warranted immediate action. Creating a free trade zone in North America would expand U.S. exports, create jobs, and ensure that our economy was reaping the benefits, not the burdens, of globalization.

Source: Hillary Clinton, "Living History" (New York: Simon and Schuster, 2003), p. 182, as cited in the "Global Class Struggle, How America's Bilateral Elite Lost Our Future - And What It Will Take To Win It Back," Jeff Faux (2006) at p. 21.

According to the author, Jeff Faux, an Economist, "Robert Rubin would say that never thought, and did not argue, that NAFTA would create many jobs." (at p. 21, op. cit.).

Well, not only does Mr. Rubin deny that he ever stated that NAFTA would create jobs, but Ms. Clinton thought that it was worth pushing her health care agenda to one side for the expediency of "such and important agenda."

I must admit that I have not read Ms. Clinton's book, but Mr. Faux has been very astute in his citations and has his own economic forum which can be found on the web.

Mr. Faux in his book written in 2006 not only predicted that the repeal in 1999 (that Bill Clinton signed) of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 would allow the financial institutions (commercial banks and investment banks) so that it was possible to "manipulate" the housing market and cause a crash. The subprime liar loans and the lack of independent rating of the bundling of the loans.

NAFTA costs jobs in America. If Ms. Clinton didn't realize that and/or doesn't admit it in her memoirs and even misquotes Bill's mentor Robert Rubin, the Wall Street lawyer who along with Larry Summers and Alan Greenspan masterminded the bubble, God help us all.
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racetoinfinity
restore Glass-Steagall now!
05:30 AM on 02/15/2008
Yes, it's an excellent book, and Faux clearly demonstrates that Bill, Hillary, abetted by Bob "Citibnk" Rubin all pushed through NAFTA for multi-national corpotocracy elite benefits.

"The Global Class War" by Jeff Faux
outnow
Ban the bomb
10:34 AM on 02/15/2008
Al Gore did the slap-down of little Ross Perot who said that sucking sound you hear is jobs going overseas. Rubinhood and his merry band poached jobs and the subprime theft. The chapter on "Bob, Larry and Alan" is amazing. Jeff faux predicts the subprime bubble burst back in mid-2006. I had to re-read the book several time to see what the Clintons were up to. Hillary has dirty hands on the war in Iraq and NAFTA. She is frightening in her denials of both. She trusted Bill and she trusted Bush! Who is to trust her?
07:40 PM on 02/14/2008
Amazing. Politicians (among others) still don't understand that the internet provides a record of nearly every public statement they've ever made and that literally everyone on planet can access that record in seconds.

Used to be it was love that made liars of us all. Now it's the internet.