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living between the trees
03:50 PM on 06/04/2011
"In other words, Sapp argues, you can follow Ayn Rand or Jesus, but not both."

Exactly and these video/commercials need to spread all over the United States. The fact that Ryan, Beck, Limbaugh, and Thomas all, as they say, worship her is enough for me to know that she is not something I want to have anything to do with. I only worship the one God and God alone.

Anyone who worships someone else (Cheney said he worshipped the ground Paul Ryan walked on ----- a little too 7th grader for me, but I digress) is in strict violation of everything that is godly and Christian. This is paganism and worship of self. (which is all Ayn Rand and the Tea Party is about).

So, tell all your Christian friends, you can follow Ayn Rand or you can follow Jesus but not both. And, be sure to point out that Paul Ryan and many other influential right-wingers have thoroughly stated where their allegiance is.
06:23 PM on 06/04/2011
Such a nonsensical argument I have to conclude you're a
living between the trees
07:28 PM on 06/04/2011
And, I must conclude you are an atheist.
02:34 PM on 06/04/2011
Their can be no liberal Christian; because the vast majority of denominations have marketers who develop their materials. It isn't as if each church is developing its circuulum from its own members. There are xenophobic religious marketing clubs that developed their idiot ciricuulum years ago. These people are bombastic. They fail to understand a literate conversation. Their non-reading is their choice. You can't act as a liberal in that crowd. The Christian motto is Vote Republican, come as we are and be momentarily nice understand "YOu have a right to always SEE A PASTOR but only the CHOSEN should be able to see Doctors
10:29 AM on 06/05/2011
You don't understand the Christian out-look then, and I'm not referring to the Evangelical traditions they have their own problems. Following a man, whether YOU believe he existed or not, that taught the principles of Social Justice and Peace (both of which fall on the liberal end of our modern political spectrum) should automatically make you a liberal. Saying that we don't read is a lie as well, not only have I read the Bible, but I've also read the Classical and Enlightenment philosophers, countless textbooks (I'm college educated, as are many other Christians), and Ayn Rand's works Atlas Shrugged, The Fountainhead, and Anthem. Don't lump us all together under one banner. I'm staunchly against Ryan's budget, for Universal Healthcare, for Planned Parenthood, and for the Equality of Marriage.
Genita Love
snarky and cranky
05:59 PM on 06/19/2011
Actually, you have that wrong. I happen to be BOTH a Liberal AND a Christian....I think the issue is those that you belittle and condemn are more into worshipping the apostle Paul and his pharisee like mentality and paradigm....I, on the other hand, take to heart what MY Lord and Savior,Jesus Christ has to say about things...That, there in lies a fundamental difference. To be a Pharisee, OR follow Jesus. I choose the second.
02:18 PM on 06/04/2011
While Rand used prose compellingly, ultimately, her vision was shot through with immaturity. This is a writer who believed that the subjugation, humiliation and rape of women was the pinnacle of sexual and emotional expression. My heavens, Roark and Galt couldn't let uppity Dominique and Dagny get the better of them, right?

But, more profoundly, her lauding of either/or as the basis for all human choice and relationship is deeply and utterly shallow and juvenile (although her background of oppression makes it somewhat understandable) and incompatible with Christ.

Rather, Jesus would say 'both/and', not 'either/or'. "Both/and' is so very difficult, as is Christ; if this weren't so, we would have had the peace on earth eons ago.
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02:25 PM on 06/04/2011
Goodness sakes, and the fact that she would worship a murderer (William Hickman) and later turn to 24/7 amphetamine abuse kind of makes me question her sanity.
Not young enough to know everything..
02:24 AM on 06/05/2011
Her prose to me is not compelling - it is tedious and unconvincing.
11:47 AM on 06/04/2011
It's not "Ayn Rand vs Jesus." It's Xtians vs Christians"
07:21 AM on 06/04/2011
What a mischievous title for an article.

Ayn Rand held despicable beliefs, not because she was an atheist, but because she thinks like a lot of the modern republicans / corporate masters.

When Christians start acting Christ-like, then you may have a point. How many Americans wanted to turn the other cheek on 9/11?
How many catholics thought the correct phrase was "no child's behind left?"
How many people have killed for god?

Jesus said you could not be a follower of his if you didn't hate your mother and father, so maybe Ayn is more Christ like than the plastic Christians America has today.
06:24 PM on 06/04/2011
Yeah, let me go to you to decide how I should act.
Not young enough to know everything..
02:26 AM on 06/05/2011
I think that you need someone....
06:48 AM on 06/04/2011
Wow this new Batman movie is becoming way too convoluted for my taste.
05:38 AM on 06/04/2011
I particularlly enjoy the comment about "Rand's godless nonsense". Religion based on magic (fruit, talking animals, etc.) isn't nonsense?
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03:57 AM on 06/04/2011
People have been expelled from the catholic church for making remarks less nonsensical than those made by Ryan about the compatibility of catholicism and Ayn Rand's philosophy.

As a matter of fact, it must even make every clear-minded atheist cringe that Ryan is seriously even comparing the two.

Ayn Rand's "philosophy" isn't respected as such in a single department of humanities. Roman catholic theology and Christian social ethics or Catholic social teaching are.

Go home Ryan. Or try to get a grip.

Note that I didn't even mention the fact that the two views are as incompatible as anything gets.
Curse you, Mansquito.
12:00 PM on 06/04/2011
Yes you did. Right there in the last sentence.
Curse you, Mansquito.
12:04 PM on 06/04/2011
BTW, I completely agree. Fanned.
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04:40 PM on 06/04/2011
alright, I'll admit it. :-)

I just wanted to make clear that no matter how you feel about catholicism, it deserves better than being compared to that schmaltzy capitalist porn scribe.
Curse you, Mansquito.
12:05 PM on 06/04/2011
oops, not awake yet.
02:17 AM on 06/04/2011
"the morality of capitalism".

how is that for ignorance? ok unawareness the ego hates the word ignorance.

capitalism by its very agenda will create a society of a few haves and mostly have nots.

the purer the form of capitalism the faster the track to third world status.

reaganhood put capitialism on steroids and how has that worked out for the american middle class. the 2%ers great. the middle class like a run away freight train to third world.

what is interesting to watch is american's on going love affair with capitalism as it takes most of them to third world status.

we would be in second world status now if not for borrowed and printed money and the dollar the world currency.

michael moore your movie on capitalism did not put a dent in american's love affair with capitalism. they still hang in there with that love while it treats most of they like ex lovers.
David Weidner
Ask me about my narcissism!
12:23 AM on 06/04/2011
I'm an atheist, and I side with jesus on this one. Rand was a selfish b***h. Too bad christians dont follow jesus's teachings either.
01:50 AM on 06/04/2011
You read my mind
10:57 PM on 06/03/2011
"a mind is a terrible thing to waste"
10:06 PM on 06/03/2011
Why can't the people just find a way to combine Ayn Rands business principles with whatever they believe? Just cause the author considered God a drug for the masses doesn't mean her works are suddenly Satans work as well. I live by Objectivism and I am an atheist and have no problem interweaving the two into the business deals I can make with my friends.
Fear a Blank Planet
11:37 PM on 06/03/2011
Most people who understand them find Rand's "principles" to be nothing more than the excuses of a sociopath and, therefore, don't want to combine them with anything other than loathing.
Margo Arrowsmith
Elizabeth Warren in 2016!
01:27 AM on 06/04/2011
Fanned and faved
09:56 PM on 06/03/2011
The net of this article is bunk. I'm a person of faith -- but I have to balance my checkbook in the mold of Rand. They are not exclusive. Rand was making a point about balance -- you simply cannot take the rewards of capitialism and use whatever device you have, religion, social justice, wealth redistribution, whatever, and decide to take from those that create to form some kind of utopian society. Those that innovate should be rewarded, even if it does mean that have more of the wealth. there would be no such wealth without these people, and more than likely, for those who don't have that kind of wealth -- you're life would likely be much worse. Ryan and the GOP are leveraging Rand to make a point. you can't be generous with other people's money. you can't be generous if you don't have the money. I'm all for having some kind of social contract that has support should you fall, but we're past that. It's not become an entitlement society where it's not just a net anymore -- it's becoming a bi-weekly paycheck. A little more Rand wouldn't be a bad thing.
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02:29 PM on 06/04/2011
Balancing a checkbook in the mold of Rand? I'm not able to follow that. Rand worshipped William Hickman, a man who kidnapped a child (whom he later murdered and mutilated) for ransom -- she loved Hickman's "sense of life" and his belief that morality did not apply to him. She was sickened by the justice system and believed that normal people did not have a right to arrest him or put him to death for his crimes. Is this the kind of person you want to follow? Really? How about her intense drug addiction? Whenever she had a feeling, she blasted it with amphetamines. Yes, she had an abundant income and hence spent less than she earned -- but high as a kite, she would never have been able to balance her checkbook if she had not had a cultlike band of slavish followers taking care of her life for her while she got high and had sex with random dudes. Great idol there.
01:28 AM on 06/05/2011
Rand will continue to influence while you will continue to be a niemand and a zero.
Enemy of the proudly ignorant
08:38 PM on 06/03/2011
The saddest part of this is that many in the Evangelical community are embracing the Rand philosophy wholeheartedly. Short term gain is more important than long term problems because the world is going to end soon anyway or in other words "I'm going to get raptured so who cares if the rest suffer!" It has become pervasive in their broadcasts of late. They ask people to tithe 10% even when they are barely scrapping by so that the church can help others (that help comes with some mighty big strings like a high pressure sales pitch and conversion). So the less people have the more they are needed and the more they can pressure people into converting. It absolutely benefits them and it is disgusting! People shouldn't be left to suffer just because someone in charge needs a new RV, jet, etc (politicians and preachers both)
08:35 PM on 06/03/2011
"Ryan sought to assure New York Archbishop Timothy Dolan... that the GOP budget aligns with Catholicism."

Wouldn't aligning with "reality" be better for everyone?