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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
AMaitrejean
There Is No Planet B
08:14 PM on 06/11/2011
I don't care if a woman is standing there in pasties and a g-string, NO ONE has a right to touch her unless she gives permission. PERIOD. As a mother, THIS is what I have taught my two sons. You can look at the candy all day and drool but that doesn't give you the right to steal it.

And by suggesting that a woman dressing scantily or provocatively is just "asking for it", is that what you think of women at the beach or the pool? "Ohhhh look at all the women just ASKING FOR IT because they're wearing bikinis."

Men, YOU are responsible for YOUR actions. Women are NOT here for you to dominate, attack or control. NO ONE is to blame but YOU.
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rowdiman
Um, Boehner: WE WON.
08:34 PM on 06/11/2011
You are sooo right. Fanned and Faved.
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Rational Thought Plz
Is the Micro Bio Half
09:21 PM on 06/11/2011
I honestly believe that when many people imply that they are 'asking for it' what they are trying to say is that if you dress extremely provocatively, you are more likely to find yourself in such a situation. The BLAME is still of course on the perp, but people who would commit such an act are probably going to be more likely to victimize someone who dresses provocatively.
greenwren
He's an ANGRY elf ...
09:31 PM on 06/11/2011
Not true. Rape victims range from infants to great-grandmothers, females and males. In my area, a guy was just sentenced for raping two women in their 80s.

More to the point, a woman can walk down a city street naked, and she doesn't "deserve" to be raped. It's HER body - nobody else's. Just because I park my fine car on a city street, ready for the taking, doesn't mean anyone has the right to steal it.
09:36 PM on 06/11/2011
It would be nice it that were all it meant, but what it really means is that the cops decline to investigate, because she was "asking for it," or the judge doesn't take it seriously and lets the attacker go free, because "she was asking for it."

In any case, it's completely false, this idea that rapists rape because of what a woman's wearing. They rape because they choose to rape and because they feel they can get away with it. 80+% of rape victims are already acquainted with their rapists, and are raped in their own home or in the home of their rapist. Should we tell women to avoid going to their friend's houses, their boyfriend's houses, or their own house? At what point to we shift the responsibility from trying to get women to escape being raped, to trying to stop rapists from raping?
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busteddrum
I Can't Stand Intolerance
07:59 PM on 06/11/2011
It is with wonderment that I read the posts in this thread. There are certain men (myself included) who can see an attractive woman and not go absolutely bug-$#it crazy and act out like sophomoric virgins. As to these other types, their behavior is set and will probably not change. Especially in countries where their culture does not look at women as equals, and although they have laws against sexual assault, they are not functional. I certainly can understand the anger women have about the bad behavior, and I think that their march will vent some of that. It is a stretch to equate cat calls with rape though.
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brooklyncitizen
Soror quaerens lucem
11:45 PM on 06/11/2011
Especially in countries where their culture does not look at women as equals,
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I think it is naive at best and clueless at worst to think this happens somewhere else.....violence against women is a huge problem in this country and men often bully women; unwanted sexual advances is another form of intimidation.

I work with a guy who just stares at my chest while we are having a work related conversation, he is married and there is no invitation on my part....frankly he is old enough to be discreet but behaves like a high schooler...it is creepy especially because it is in the workplace.
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busteddrum
I Can't Stand Intolerance
04:15 AM on 06/12/2011
brook, Hey slow down and take a deep breath. Especially means "even more so" so that implies the there was something to begin with. My statement was that it happens here and more so elsewhere for cultural reasons. If you would like me to spell it out more simply I would be happy to. As far as your co-worker goes. There are prescribed steps to address that in the workplace. Either take responsibility for your self and do what is necessary or quit your whining and taking your anger out on men who support your causes.
07:55 PM on 06/11/2011
A lot of people are missing the point. Rape has nothing to do with sex. It has everything to do with power and control. It's not about men "not being able to control their urges" or whatever. It's about keeping women "in their place" through violence and intimidation. I really wish these discussions could move away from what women wear and toward the effect of extreme patriarchy and the continual oppression of women -- in the U.S., too.
09:12 PM on 06/11/2011
Thats BS. Total LOAD! It is about horn-ball creeps that can't control themselves. There are crazies out there that get off on what you claim. But the average date rape is from some horny sexist.
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Twohairydogs
My micro-brew is empty
09:59 PM on 06/11/2011
Who wants to have power over the woman...
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kcsandy
09:25 PM on 06/11/2011
Fanned and Faved.
Upcoming
Think outside of outside of the box.
07:29 PM on 06/11/2011
The first thing to state without equivocation is women have the right to be free from being harassed, groped, and obviously, raped. Men have the obligation as humans to respect the humanity of women.

That said, it is not reasonable, not biological, for men to pretend that they don't have sexual response to stimuli that excites them. Obviously they have to control their behavior to avoid harassing women or worse. But what are they supposed to do with their natural honest response? Simple denial and self repression are not a solution and really that expectation is part of the problem. Men have the right to express their sexuality and desires just as women do. They can't do it by assault just as they can't negotiate other social interactions by assault.

Like it or not, clothing is social behavior. Many women do wear "attractive" clothing when they want attention from men. Many women do want a man to show interest in her and pursue her, in a civilized way. So it is unreasonable to expect men not to show interest in a woman whose clothing says, "I'm trying to be attractive".

The nuance here is that a woman needs to cop to what her clothing conveys and still to be able to easily signal she is not interested. Men need to understand that signal and, without resentment, leave the woman alone. That is the message of the photo with this article. It is inviting communication, not presumption.
07:49 PM on 06/11/2011
I would ask you to clarify the post here. Is it directed to the commenters or the article? I may understand what you are trying to say, but it also sounds like you could be defending the rapists here. At any rate, that post is flamebait and should be edited.
Upcoming
Think outside of outside of the box.
09:02 PM on 06/11/2011
To clarify I would reiterate the first thing I stated without equivocation. In no conceivable way am I defending rapists here. Assault, especially rape, is a violent crime and violent criminals should be locked up for a long long time.

However, it is neither useful nor accurate to accept the notion that because women are oppressed, men are barbarians. The issue is more complicated than that.

I am trying to advance a more nuanced viewpoint of this issue. Generally speaking, many societies repress both women and men with regard to their sexuality. This is an instance of women demanding less repression. It is fantastic that they are doing that and I hope they keep pressing the issue until it no longer is a problem.

I also believe men are repressed by society as well, obviously in a different way. I view it as repressive that men are discouraged or even banned from having women as friends. I believe that is a significant part of the first problem. Segregation breeds misunderstanding and dehumanization. Societal norms often cripple men's ability to fully enjoy the company and capabilities of women, as fellow humans. That is horrible. When someone is compelled to treat another human being as less than themselves, they are themselves degraded and made less human.
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concrete things
08:30 PM on 06/11/2011
A woman dressing attractively to go out and try to find someone to have sex with has nothing to do with rape. Can you explain what you think the connection is?
09:26 PM on 06/11/2011
Lots of girls i know, especially at parties, get drunk & horny & let "certain" guys grope them & they love it. So the real thing is, it's only ok for a guy the girl likes to randomly grope her in a sexually tense situation, right ladies? You KNOW it's true. Not all i'm sure but many. Rape is rape, molestation is molestation, copping a feel is copping a feel, but sometimes copping a feel is actually WANTED! So, if you cop-a-feel & she likes it, it's ok, but not if she doesn't? Slutwalk claims to be for Women's Rights but they have more rights & double-standards now. It's just Women Power, no better than White Power or Black Power.
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kcsandy
09:30 PM on 06/11/2011
I never saw a hint of a connection in the post.
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quillsinister
06:52 PM on 06/11/2011
http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_ll9no2bNih1qj77z0o1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1307919055&Signature=3y27G9tQ7fnrFR4Rch2e9ilWJys%3D

It's this simple, folks. Only YOU can prevent it. Now we just need some kind of Smokey the Bear mascot to come along and beat people with his shovel if they still don't get it.
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jcesatx
07:02 PM on 06/11/2011
Oh WOW!! I've never seen that before!! I love it!! Thanks!!
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Catherine Lynch Monks
If you don't vote don't complain
06:32 PM on 06/11/2011
A long time ago a friend of mine was married to a man who worked for a delivery service. 'I HATE going to the gay bar' he said, 'I always feel uncomfortable like people are checking me out. And I don't want that from them'.
My response was 'welcome to our world dear, don't much like seeing how the other half lives'.
He looked at his wife and I oddly and we both told him that we felt that way almost every single time we walked into a room with men in it.
06:08 PM on 06/11/2011
REAL mean are gentle and kind. STOP the violence against women. Get involved!

http://www.thea21campaign.org/our-solution.php
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jcesatx
06:58 PM on 06/11/2011
Exactly!!! F &F
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ArjenBoatsma
Independent thinker, atheist, scientist, engineer
09:52 PM on 06/11/2011
The world would be a better place if there were more REAL women who are gentle and kind.
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FeralForever
I'm watching you...so play nice
07:56 PM on 06/12/2011
How bout the same for BOTH genders?!?
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jcesatx
05:12 PM on 06/11/2011
For the less evolved males on this post:

You would not take kindly to a man making it known to you on the highway that he is masturbating while he watches you. That has happened to me twice. I can wear a bulky sweater and jeans and still have men that look at my chest first, before they look in my face. Its no compliment . I wish men understood how these experiences can make women feel insecure, anxious, unsafe...and downright angry. Sometimes I dread just going to grocery store by myself. ...and I live in the US.

In India and other places in the world there are actually separate pink buses to protect women in some regions so they can get to work without being harassed and molested.

Women all over world deal with this...all the time....The men who condone this behavior are contributing to rape culture. Just like condoning vicious pornography, legalized prostitution...etc. Some men believe that legalizing prostitution will decrease rape...LOL!!!! Men are not animals that need to use women's bodies or else they commit violence on others. Thats an argument we would give a chimpanzee.

If thats not justification for the objectification and selling of the human female body..then I dont what is. 100% of women will experience unwanted sexual attention in their lifetimes. Get a clue!!!!!!
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Blu Steel
I Love Voice dialogue
05:23 PM on 06/11/2011
I Have had the same problem with women and I am sick of their perverted minds I am with you!
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madame fate
The ego shouts. The higher-self whispers.
05:30 PM on 06/11/2011
Women look at your chest first before they look at your face? Really?? Must be some chest...
05:41 PM on 06/11/2011
Her comment was meant to be serious. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. And demeaning and ridiculing a woman's concern about a serious topic is hot helpful.
07:32 PM on 06/11/2011
There are breast men and there are butt men. It's always been this way. NOTHING will ever change a man's sexual drive but BPA and pharmaceuticals. I want you to know our scientific community is working on it though. You may want to research why boxers and fighters don't have sex during training.
05:07 PM on 06/11/2011
"Smash success with over 5000 attending...." Did you also manage to find out how many of those are actually women? If men stare at you only for being a woman and being there, and event like this WOULD draw thousands of males, to stare at girls in their underwears. Not that it may turn into a fiasco, but this sounds like trouble. I've heard stories of how girls are literally followed to their homes by complete strangers. If any of these girls were to catch anyone's "fancy" they'll be sexually harassed. And you know what? If anything untoward happens, nobody will ever know, because girls tend not to report rapes and harassment because of the associated social stigma.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
donethridge
05:15 PM on 06/11/2011
What would be your plan?
05:26 PM on 06/11/2011
Not go ogle those women, for one...
07:33 PM on 06/11/2011
If it is a walk meant to prevent rape, I would imagine most of the women attending to be the type to report rape.
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05:01 PM on 06/11/2011
I'm an Indian-American man, and 1 thing that I can never hide my shame over regarding India is the mistreatment of females, especially the disproportionate abortion of female fetuses. I had believed that the problem was linked with poverty, and that this problem would become reduced as India became richer. In fact, the problem has worsened. Richer communities in India have even higher relative rates of abortions of female babies. The shame only grows. I don't know how this will change, other than when most men find that they cannot find any woman to marry.
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jcesatx
05:20 PM on 06/11/2011
Thanks you for this post. Men with your compassion and understanding are the men of the future. It gives me hope. :)

Things will change when less men get sex in general..you are right about that....and when men come together to realize that women's issue aren't just women's problem. They are human issues and affect all families and lives everywhere. Many men do not respect women at all, educated or not, pretty or not. Some men only respect who they must...other large men. Its up to men to come together and talk to each other about preventing violence against women.
06:37 PM on 06/11/2011
NPR had a really good story about this a few months ago. They reported that due to high rates female fetus abortions there is a now a huge disproportion in the population of male/female ratio. This scarcity has made men that much more eager to jump after the first woman they see. Do you also consider this to a major factor in the increase of sexual violence against women?
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06:50 PM on 06/11/2011
Wow, I didn't even think about that. I guessed that a scarcity of women would lead to less female abortions, but in fact it might lead to even more violence against women as some men will just do whatever it takes to get their hands on one. I
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jcesatx
07:05 PM on 06/11/2011
Of course it is. Women are of less value altogether. But every man wants his own. Even the poorest of men in these types of cultures, get a wife.
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Arthur L
04:12 PM on 06/11/2011
I hope my own neighborhood dehli names a sandwich after the event.
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ncconcernedcitizen
only a fool would take me seriously
03:26 PM on 06/11/2011
New Delhi, a city of 16 million residents, where a woman is allegedly raped every 18 hours or molested every 14 hours.
>> That is considered a safe city in the US.
05:54 PM on 06/11/2011
if a woman is raped every 18 hours or molested every 14, why doesn't she move- you would think she would learn - she shoot move or shoot the guys who are raping her
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Catherine Lynch Monks
If you don't vote don't complain
06:28 PM on 06/11/2011
Oh BRILLIANT idea. Because a woman should give up her family ties, her job, her home because men can't keep their body parts to themselves.
Tro// you are dirt under the foot of thinking people everywhere.
10:21 PM on 06/11/2011
ya know. If i got robbed or raped for that matter, a few times a year, i'm outta there.
06:08 PM on 06/11/2011
I would like to see your stats for this.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
hello All
09:18 PM on 06/11/2011
In 2007, there were 248,300 victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.1 (These figures do not include victims 12 years old or younger.)

Every 2 minutes, someone in the U.S. is sexually assaulted.
Here's the math. According to the U.S. Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey -- the country's largest and most reliable crime study -- there were 248,300 sexual assaults in 2007 (the most recent data available).

There are 525,600 minutes in a non-leap year. That makes 31,536,000 seconds/year. So, 31,536,000 divided by 248,300 comes out to 1 sexual assault every 127 seconds, or about 1 every 2 minutes.

http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/frequency-of-sexual-assault
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madame fate
The ego shouts. The higher-self whispers.
03:24 PM on 06/11/2011
Whether a woman is wearing a burqa or a miniskirt really doesn't matter to a rapist. It's what's underneath the clothes that he cares about. Stop blaming the women for the men's inability to control their sexual urges. Evolve, already!
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03:46 PM on 06/11/2011
I get your meaning and agree with you.

But, would it be okay if I just went to the event to see all the pretty women? I appreciate them ... but they have the ultimate say so. Is that appreciation offensive to you also?
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madame fate
The ego shouts. The higher-self whispers.
03:53 PM on 06/11/2011
I think that would be wonderful. Support, respect, appreciation - they are all good. :)
05:09 PM on 06/11/2011
LOL. Its a protest against men ogling at girls (and ultimately assaulting them). You will defeat the protest's purpose.
03:49 PM on 06/11/2011
Well stated ! Kinda like here in the US an unwanted pregnancy is all a womans fault . Fanned
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madame fate
The ego shouts. The higher-self whispers.
03:55 PM on 06/11/2011
Yes, it's beginning to be a scary time in the U.S. for women. If some politicians have their way they will make it illegal for a woman to control her own body and make choices accordingly. Vigilance is key.
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flashfyre
Honore de Balzac
03:11 PM on 06/11/2011
Staring is getting into PC territory and doesn't fit in with a discussion of physical violence. Sexual violence is in a special category because of the mystification of human sexuality and possible genetic predisposition. Unless something has changed, science says that male primates, generally, have a stronger sex drive than females, are stronger than females, and males tend to be more prone to violence than females (the mating habits of the Orangutan would be a harsh example). If these claims hold true, there are genetic and statistical components to rape that cannot (and should not) be ignored. Add in sexual shame and mystification and we can reach the conclusion that, in the short term, only education,  therapy, and incarceration are viable solutions to the problem. In the future we could have gene therapy, but for now, people need to examine the science of animal brutality and take realistic precautions. Male or female, learn the basics of self-defense and situational awareness, and to the extent possible, reject sexual shame and mystification as the archaic social engineering tools that they are.
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IvyShoots
That's debatable!
04:22 PM on 06/11/2011
Your ridiculous "mansplaining" is insulting to women and not too flattering to the many men who feel 100% capable of controlling their "animal" urges.

"Staring is getting into PC territory and doesn't fit in with a discussion of physical violence," is pure BS. You don't get to dictate when and how women are permitted to complain that they feel threatened by men. When the culture condones a man's open leering at a woman in public, it's not much worse for him when he then makes rude sexual comments to her, and when he then exposes himself to her, and when he then gropes her on a crowded train, and when he then rubs against her to climax, and when he then follows her home and rapes her. It's part of a continuum which SHOULD be shut down at the start, when staring is allowed to be overt and threatening to the woman, rather than "stealing" a glance the woman isn't aware of. You seem quite invested in excusing men behaving badly, making you just one more unenlightened soul who's part of the problem.
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flashfyre
Honore de Balzac
02:39 PM on 06/12/2011
You seem to think the mentally ill or violent can quickly and easily "think" or "learn" their way out of their behaviors. I have my doubts that this is true in any way. Incarceration or therapy is likely their only hope. I would urge any and all readers, male and female, to read up on situational awareness and self-defense to avoid a violent encounter, and if a reader still becomes a victim after that, reject sexual shame and mystification -- contact the police and enter therapy immediately...do not allow the violent act to "define the person". Prolonged victimization is always unhealthy.
hgus
It's not about the economy, stupid
04:49 PM on 06/11/2011
Please read up on Evolution. There are a lot of things that were coded into our lives that we no longer need. We are one of the few animals on this planet that is capable of overcoming instinctual bahaviors.

Please do not make excuses for those lower on the evolutionary chart (referring to men who look for excuses to treat women poorly), instead raise your expectations and you will be surprised how quickly these problems can be resolved.

The science that you describe isn't meant to say "Stuff occurs".

Our scorn must be higher. Our expectations must be higher and our tolerance of bad behavior must be much lower... because this is an important issue and the challenges are real, but must be overcome.