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hstdem
In search of the 4th Estate
09:09 AM on 08/25/2011
What I find more impressive is the fact that we see people in the Middle East celebrating WITHOUT ONE American flag being burnt.

THAT is success.
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rbenjamin
Rule 5 rules
08:52 AM on 08/25/2011
The collapse of the Kadhafi regime reflects the chance alignment of many interacting factors beyond the control of any individual leader. Among the more critical:

1) The Arab Spring phenomenon spreading to Libya
2) Over reaction by Kadhafi provoking a genuinely effective armed revolt
3) Over reach by Libyan insurgents leading to a credible threat of humanitarian crisis
4) Dependence of the Libyan economy on foreign trade
5) Political isolation of the Kadhafi regime
6) Geographical isolation of Libya
7) The small and inefficient Libyan military

Some nations within the NATO alliance, notably Britain and France recognized an ephemeral opportunity that was well within NATO's military capabilities and did not require commitment of ground forces (beyond special operations) to succeed. Obama signed on late and conditionally, but sign he did.

The fundamental NATO strategy was to tilt the military balance towards the insurgents by:

Choking the already disrupted Libyan economy with naval blockade and sanctions.

and

Using air power to degrade and pin down the Libyan army thereby neutralizing the regime's advantages in armor and artillery.

It worked, at least in the short term sense. An important part of life may be showing up, but more important is not screwing up when you do (like Bush II). None of this is inconsistent with the Obama Doctrine, but the doctrine alone doesn't account for NATO's success.
10:53 AM on 08/25/2011
It was a classic war of attrition. When people were calling the conflict a "stalemate" NATO and the Libyan rebels where playing the long game and softening up the military assets and spirit of the enemy. That's why Tripoli fell so quickly. Most people just don't understand the difference between tactics and strategy.
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rbenjamin
Rule 5 rules
11:54 AM on 08/25/2011
I like to analogize NATO's strategy to that of a siege, since it incorporated both attrition and pinning of Libyan forces.

NATO performed very well at the operational level by organizing a multinational response in a very short period - I suspect they averted disaster at Benghazi by a matter of hours. NATO is by nature multinational, so that helps. Most NATO equipment had seen combat before. Much of NATO's response was rehearsed over the past 2 decades, the US military has a lot of experience in taking down air defense systems and NATO learned a lot about aerial attrition from their Yugoslavia experience.

NATO's targeting tactics remain somewhat mysterious, at least to me There is a lot of speculation about special ops in this regard, but I suspect drones and flying radar platforms were probably the key to finding, tracking and killing armor and artillery. It wasn't necessary to get all, it be sufficient just make it very risky to use these assets.
02:35 PM on 08/25/2011
I congratulate you on a well thought out misdirection, while grasping at straws to praise OBama's Doctrine


1) America Paid 75% of all NATO's cost of this NON war. I don't consider that a success story

2) Obama personally declared this NON war without any permission or funding from Congress. That is a HUGH violation of our Constitutional law.



The problems with your post is Libya posed NO Threat to American Interest, and thus violate's our engagements of humanitarian aid via massive combat bombings.

This war is about removing a foreign leader, and our Constitutional Process expressly forbids us from engaging in it.

This was Europe's war... not America's

WHY ARE WE NOT HUMANLY BOMBING SYRIA?
scipio2009
Alan Wolfe's "The Future of Liberalism"
03:52 PM on 08/25/2011
lol
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rbenjamin
Rule 5 rules
04:50 PM on 08/25/2011
1) The cost of 150 days war was less than one month of war Iran, Iraq and Pakistan,. A rogue regime with a record of terrorism and sponsorship of terrorism was excised. I believe most Americans would consider that good value for dollar even if we paid 100% . You label this a NON war for rhetorical purposes, but a better description is a well managed war against an outmatched opponent.

2) The Constitution divides war powers between Executive and Legislative branches. Congress controls the purse, but the President is CIC. Presidents have initiated and prosecuted wars on their own initiative since the early days of the Republic. Present day Congressional war critics could have cut the funding for Libya had they the votes. They did not.

Kadhafi posed risk to American interests by threatening a humanitarian crisis that could have further destabilized a major power in the region, the already fragile Egypt. This was a judgment call. Risk was arguably greater to the Europeans, but Europe shouldered most of the combat missions, if not the bulk of the financial costs. That's called a deal.

The Constitution does not forbid removing a foreign leader by means of war, we did so with Hitler, Mussolini and the Emperor of Japan.

NATO is not bombing Syria, with either humans or robots, because Syria does not present the opportunity Libya did. Different pressures are being applied to Syria. Matching actions to opportunities and limitations is just good statecraft.
06:40 AM on 08/25/2011
The truly greatest gifts of progressive pundits is their grasping at straws to praise OBama SUCCESS .... ... ignoring any hard facts.

1) America Paid 75% of all NATO's cost of this NON war. I don't call that a success for the American people

2) He personally declared this NON war without any permission or funding from Congress. That is a HUGH mistake

3) Their are nasty weapons all about, with no security observance and or inspections


This is once again rapidly turning into another Obama NOBEL PEACE PRIZE, despite the fact no real success thus far is done.

I have this extremely odd feeling Billions are going to leave our desperately failing economy to support another Muslim nation, as more AMERICANS GO HOMELESS


NO OFFENCE thus far all I see is angry mobs looting, stealing, and discharging high powered weapons indiscriminately in all directions. LMAO imagine those weapons free on America streets.


Lets organize a Victory Rally in Washington DC next month, with our weapons in hand, praising his victory. LOL I suspect the National Guard, Police, and US Military with Apache Gunshipsl will be everywhere demanding we all disarm and go home if Lucky.


Last I checked Libya ranked behind Finland, but above Denmark as per Military prowess among Nation.








I have a really great idea. Let's name this the Obama Summer of Recovery II
08:45 AM on 08/25/2011
Remember all these Broken Promises???

http://youtu.be/HxaT19rQ-Do
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hstdem
In search of the 4th Estate
09:11 AM on 08/25/2011
Wow- you are really bitter and still upset that Obama won in 2008.
03:21 PM on 08/25/2011
You sadly are another misguided ideologue. I was Gambling large Obama did become President. I'm an International Businessman and Investor. I have done better under obama, than ALL the Bush years combined.

Secondly as the name implies I did exemplary combat service and have the resume to prove it. I actually served in blood when the DNC and Carter slapped my face for my distinguished service and sacrifices.

It was during those times I gave up my devout liberal ways, and vowed NEVER AGAIN depend on the DNC or American Government for my future. I have never regretted that decision.

Air combat is cheap compared to nation building. Watch and learn, our checkbook is wide open, and the collection plate is coming our way.

I HOPE Europe supports our next humanitarian aid program under a GOP President with bombs and aircraft.

Now that Libya is secure, we need to attack, I mean help liberate Syria, Iran, and several more African and Middle East nations


We need to prioritize and request Nato to help protect our borders and perhaps do humanitarian aid Mission's to Mexico and against the drug Cartels.
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vietveter
To the FAR LEFT
06:28 AM on 08/25/2011
Just try and have even one regressive mind wrap

his simple mind around the simple facts.

The Earth is square and flat, the sun revolves

aroind the Earth and the E arth is only 6,000yo.
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freedomfighter30
Say NO to Socialism - Been there, lived that.
06:10 AM on 08/25/2011
It wasn't strictly O's fight. If you all remember he didn't want to be the leader in this Libyan thingy.
He wanted the US to stay in the background. He's not the hero all his followers think him to be -- it's the mainstream media now that pushing for that because of 2012 election. If this was his last year you wouldn't hear boo.
08:11 AM on 08/25/2011
His strategy worked! Period! He didn't want the US to take the lead road, but they were involved. He's not your hero and that's okay, but there are those who still support him.
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hstdem
In search of the 4th Estate
09:12 AM on 08/25/2011
You miss the point of the article.

It was Obama's strategy NOT to be the leader and share in the success: The Fantastic Four isn't only Obama.
03:39 AM on 08/25/2011
what exactly is the victory here?
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Madagain
antirepublicanism
05:20 AM on 08/25/2011
Let me try to explain it to you, adam. A long time enemy of the United States has most likely been deposed. Does this mean all Libians will become American citizens or Christians? I doubt it. But the people of Libia have a better chance to choose the government THEY want now. After all is that not one of the things we value about our form of government?
06:20 AM on 08/25/2011
Yea...it's what WE value about OUR form...who are we to impose that on others? We need to stop playing world police.
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songoftherushes
I can think, I can wait, and I can fast
09:57 AM on 08/25/2011
Long time enemy? The US was doing business with him about a month before he was attacked by NATO.
11:02 AM on 08/25/2011
Nice reach for denial.
05:23 AM on 08/26/2011
denying what exactly?
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Liberal Chic
Evil triumphs when good people do nothing.
02:54 AM on 08/25/2011
I think Obama has a solid approach to international relational and national security. Unfortunately he came into an already dismal economic situation, and hasn't been able to make it any better. I recognize that a government's ability to improve a slow job market are limited at best, but I worry that the rest of the voters won't see it that way...
scipio2009
Alan Wolfe's "The Future of Liberalism"
03:57 PM on 08/25/2011
He's tried; he had to do so, for the most part, with some of his very "allies", particularly in the House of Representatives, undermining him at every turn, but he's put forward the effort.

Next time, if he earns the chance to govern again, maybe his "allies" will try working with him. All there is to do is hope.
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Mistinguette Grandison
No. Corporations are NOT people
08:12 PM on 08/29/2011
I agree. We need more stimulus. The stimulus prevented things from being worse than what they could have been, but it didn't do enough to start a robust recovery. Plus spending cuts right now make it worse.
12:58 AM on 08/25/2011
i think libya is a positive thing but there is still the issue of the economy and he is not doing enough to stop illegal immigration. I would like to see a serious attempt to stop illegal immigration, especially right now because we need the jobs for Americans instead of illegals.
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hstdem
In search of the 4th Estate
09:16 AM on 08/25/2011
How can there be jobs for illegals but not for Americans?

Maybe some Americans don't WANT certain jobs.
12:00 AM on 08/28/2011
I think that right now americans might take many of those jobs that you think they don't want. Also, I am a democrat. Also, I lived in Arizona for years. I am part hispanic. I think we need to send the illegals home and give these jobs to americans. I used to have a friend who's dad ran the border patrol for southern arizona. I can tell you that these illegals are living like 20 people in a one or two bedroom apartment and they are sending any extra money they have home to their kin back in the home country. If americans had these jobs they would not have so many people in one apartment and the money they get paid would stay in america instead of being sent south of the border. It would help our economy if americans had these jobs instead
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songoftherushes
I can think, I can wait, and I can fast
12:54 AM on 08/25/2011
A White House statement of 21 March 2003 informed the world that:


“President Bush is assembling a Coalition that has already begun military operations to disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction, and enforce 17 UNSC resolutions.”



and that already 48 countries, all of whom “understand the threat Saddam Hussein’s weapons pose to the world”, were “publicly committed to the Coalition”, including:



Afghanistan, Albania, Angola, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia, Costa Rica, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Honduras, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Japan, Kuwait, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Mongolia, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Palau, Panama, Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Rwanda, Singapore, Slovakia, Solomon Islands, South Korea, Spain, Turkey, Uganda, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, Uzbekistan

http://www.david-morrison.org.uk/iraq/coalition-of-willing.htm


There now, did that make it 'RIGHT"? Bush was even able to get more countries involved. It is amazing what a little arm twisting by the most powerful country in the world can do.
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Christopher Nagy
Fiscal pragmatic, social moderate, angry middle.
09:59 AM on 08/25/2011
I haven't checked yet; how many soldiers did we lose in Libya?
10:56 AM on 08/25/2011
Bush never got the UN to sanction action in Iraq. A completely different case.
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Eris23
Justice is in indefinite detention.
01:13 PM on 08/25/2011
And Obama didn't get Congress to authorize our war in Libya. Bush violated international law. Obama violated US law. Different charges, but both crimes.
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gypsy508
10:40 PM on 08/24/2011
This writer is exactly what is wrong with every mistake in foreign policy. Declare a success when there is a very long road ahead...a very long one. But don't worry, he won't be paying attention a week or two from now.
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11:47 PM on 08/24/2011
You give presumptuousness whole new meaning. And, in the process, you betray your own ignorance.

Sadly, you are far from being alone in your predicament.
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timm553
In vino veritas
10:22 PM on 08/24/2011
I'm sure that half of Obamas detractors are saying that he accomplish­­ed nothing much at all, and the other half are saying "It's just luck". They hate to admit that anything he does is a positive.
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Eris23
Justice is in indefinite detention.
01:15 PM on 08/25/2011
I'm more alarmed by those of us who once decried the illegality of the Iraq War under Bush, only to see a celebration of another criminal act by a President simply because of his party affiliation. It's not a good thing for our country in the end.
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songoftherushes
I can think, I can wait, and I can fast
09:55 PM on 08/24/2011
Africa doesn't seem to share the sentiments expressed by Mr. Cirincione:

Libyan bombing illegal says concerned group
More than 200 African intellectuals say Nato’s bombing of Libya is part of a re-colonisation of the continent


“Nato has empowered itself openly to pursue the objective of regime change and therefore the use of force and all other means to overthrow the government of Libya, which objectives are completely at variance with the decisions of the UN Security Council,” Landsberg said.

The letter was signed by more than 200 prominent Africans, including former African National Congress president Thabo Mbeki, Prof Shadrack Gutto of the University of SA, former intelligence minister Ronnie Kasrils, Prof Chris Landsberg the head of the Department of Politics at the University of Johannesburg, Prof Mahmood Mamdani from the University of Columbia, former deputy minister of Foreign Affairs Aziz Pahad, author and poet Dr. Wally Serote and many other influential Africans.
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/Content.aspx?id=151539
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11:50 PM on 08/24/2011
To suggest that the NATO-led, UN-sanctioned humanitarian military intervention in Libya is "part of a re-colonization of the continent" is the absolute height of absurdity.
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songoftherushes
I can think, I can wait, and I can fast
12:07 AM on 08/25/2011
It is the height of absurdity to think NATO got involved in this as a humanitarian intervention.

After all that has happened in Afg, Iraq etc., you still believe these people?
10:57 AM on 08/25/2011
Please the only country that is colonizing Africa now is China by paying off corrupt governments.
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amicusceo
09:47 PM on 08/24/2011
Here's a fact about Obama, He called Bush un-patriotic for spending 4 trillion in 8 years and the democrats have complained endlessly about Obama being stuck with 2 wars and a deep debt and deficit. Now democrats want to give Obama credit for the two wars, really ! How about the 4 trillion dollars Obama has spent in 2 1/2 years. He didn't stop the two wars but did start a 3rd. Now his Jobs proposal will likely be a hugh spending package, any takers on this wager?
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la maqina
10:01 PM on 08/24/2011
A very big differance and you know it!
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gypsy508
10:45 PM on 08/24/2011
Not really. $1 trillion cost for the war which in the end will just mean instability in Libya for a prolonged period of time. In case you haven't noticed school programs are being cut. Social programs are being cut. Where do you think the money is going?
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noaxe397
09:11 AM on 08/25/2011
WHAT Obama spending? Where is HIS wild spending? Specifics, please? This Libya operation cost a a billion dollars. That's 4 months of tax breaks for corporate jet owners. Get real. WHAT wild spending?
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amicusceo
09:41 AM on 08/25/2011
Over reacting are we? Nothing was said about Wild Spending, where did that come from?
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patriotconserv
Democrats believe every day is April 15.
09:44 PM on 08/24/2011
Dont pat Obama on the back yet, do you really think Iran is going to let these countries form a democratic government? Iraq and Afgahnastan turned on us after we helped them form their "Democratic government.
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gypsy508
10:46 PM on 08/24/2011
Actually we crushed Iran's democracy in place of the Shah but your point is that Libya is not going to be anything resembling a democracy to which you are correct.
sanddc
Man may think he rules -God is still in charge..
03:40 AM on 08/25/2011
America is waiting on Iran.Don't believe the Obama Adminstration got their eyes closed on Iran.
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noaxe397
09:11 AM on 08/25/2011
Syria first.
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09:43 PM on 08/24/2011
Obama said "nor would we presume to choose which party or individual should run a country" but wait a minute didn't we just do that in Libya? Republican or democrat the only change is the names the policy of a one world empire run by the USA remains the same.What has happened to all the war protests since the Messiah was elected? We should bring ALL of our soldiers home now not tomorrow or until some government that we chose can stabilize and take care of themselves, no stop the warmongering and empire building and bring our loved ones home NOW.
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11:02 PM on 08/24/2011
Clearly, you have a very poor understanding of what has taken place in Libya over the course of the last several months.

It is always advisable to comment only on those subjects about which you have at least a modicum of knowledge. That way you avoid making asinine comments that succeed only in betraying an incredibly stunning level of ignorance.
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02:58 PM on 08/25/2011
I have followed this war for oil and the USA chance to finally oust leader Gaddafi that we don't like and want him replaced with someone we can control. I believe that sums it up pretty well. That would put Obama in the same group as all other empire builders that this country has had. Do you disagree with bringing our troops home?