What Jesse Jackson Said Was A-OK

Yeah, that's right. I'm going contrarian on this one. But not really. In one sense, what the good reverend said was totally unforgivable. It's just not bad in the way everyone's saying it is. The point is, what Jesse Jackson said yesterday -- you know, the bit about wanting to cut Barack Obama's nuts off -- really wasn't that vulgar in political circles. Any of you ever have a chance to talk with deeply political animals like Jesse Jackson totally off the record? It is stunning. I have heard elderly, ostensibly mild-mannered pols drop more F-bombs than George Carlin on a rant.

Just look at the ol' heart-pissing joke. Generally, it goes something like this: "David Axelrod would set Karl Rove's heart on fire and then refuse to piss down his throat to save his life." Hilarious, right? I've heard almost innumerable variations on that theme, tailored to a variety of campaigns, campaign operatives and political ideologies. Hunter Thompson included a James Carville/Lee Atwater version of the joke in his 1994 book, Better Than Sex, and the bit had apparently been around for a while even then. And threats of castration are not immune from the dark humor of the campaign trail.

Take, for example, me. A couple months ago, I wrote a blog entry here at HuffPo that ended by calling for the public castration of Grover Norquist. The comments that the good readers of the HuffingtonPost left at that blog entry were strongly approving, especially of the final line. But why? Why such approbation for one castration, and not for the other? Two reasons. First, chopping off Grover Norquist's nutsack with a rusty meat clever is hilarious. Not so Barack Obama. Second -- and this is the part of Jackson's words that is horrifying from a political point of view -- Norquist is the enemy, at least to many of the readers of HuffPo and, natch, to me as well.

The truly unforgivable part of Rev. Jackson's words is not what he said, but whom he said it about. It proves, for what must be the 36,987th time at the very least, that Democrats have never taken to heart the reciprocal of Ronald Reagan's 11th Commandment: "Thou shalt not speak ill of a fellow Republican." Had Rev. Jackson said he wanted to cut the nuts off of Dick Cheney, we'd all be having a good laugh about it right now.

Comments

[heal57]

Jesse Jackson is contemptable. He and Sharpton should go off somewhere together , vegetate and shut up about Senator Obama. Obama is right.


Independent for Obama '08

[stop7997]

Apparently Jesse Jackson hasn't been paying attention. By caving in to the Telecoms and pandering to the right wing, Obama has proven that he doesn't have any balls to cut off.

[Ipanemagirl]

Behind every locker room joke there is a bit of truth in the remarks; The truth that Jesse is clearly jealous of his brothers popularity as a presidential candidate versus his failed candidacy some years ago.
Jesse only managed to attract blacks, but Obama transcends with all races voting for him, plus young and old.

[stop7997]

Except that Jackson's comments were meant to be private. This was "locker room" talk between two friends: Jackson venting his personal frustrations with Obama in what should have been a confidential conversation, but FOX kept the microphone on. Any legitimate news outlet would have recognized Jackson's remarks as "off the record". Why FOX isn't being pounded for their breach of journalistic ethics is beyond me, other than the fact that it's FOX and no one expects better from them.

[ThoughtAboutIt]

You'd have to be a dumbass to have a microphone on, in front of a camera, in a Fox studio (or any studio) and not think everything you say may possibly be broadcast. For all we know Jackson's comment was for public consumption.

[BigBen]

I do believe you are missing the point. If Bill Clinton had said that about a black politician there would be instant uproar for evoking the legacy of the KKK. Remember they(the Clintons) were accused of playing the race card when Hillary said that President Johnson signed the civil rights legislation. Bill was called a racist for saying that "Jessie won that state".Sorry Jessie but you must be held to the same standard as Bill and Hillary were unless the columnist has a double standard,one here for us and another there for white folk. You raised the old KKK threat towards a black man and that is the worst kind of racism.

[KaAp]

There is nothing at all wrong with what the Rev. Jackson said --- lot's of people in politics use very strong language when they are "off the record." Lot's of people use strong language when they are emotional. What is wrong is with the way Senator Obama's comments feed into racist lies ... and that is terrible. If people recall Jesse Jackson created the million man march but it was for black consumption not white and it kind of freaked out the racism that lies at the core of our consciousness in this nation. What made Obama's comments different was that it was done for white consumption. And, the effect is that it helps Obama with white people --- so, rather than white people examining the racist roots that exist in us and around us and as part of us --- we can say -- "see, blacks blah blah blah." More whites have gotten government dollars or what is called "handouts" by the conservative crowd ... the percentage of black men in prison is alarming (if it were whites that were incarcerated at such a high percentage "Americans" and i bracket the term deliberately would freak) ...
Obama's words offended me a great deal. It sent shudders down my spine knowing he was not really talking to black people but to white people ...

[JimR]

Get your facts straight. The Million Man March was created by Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan.

[BigBen]

"There is nothing at all wrong with what the Rev. Jackson said --- lot's of people in politics use very strong language when they are "off the record." Lot's of people use strong language when they are emotional."

So you are willing to excuse Bill Clinton also?

[iLogos]

The problem is not the talk of castration, the problem is that it is just blatantly hypocritical. Rev. Jackson himself has preached on these same subjects. The only difference is that Sen. Obama reached an audience of millions, versus Rev. Jackson's thousands.

[kickntail]

Yes, Jesse said something not exactly appropriate but what do you think Obama may be saying about him behind his back. The better question is can they transcend their differences and there are differences. Jesse is a big supporter of the Clinton's, he's been ignored by Obama and they don't understand each other agenda's.

What Rev. Jackson said was not a big deal...move on! The media has become such an electronic tabloid with a hall of shame to attract viewers.Why do we have this need to punish at every opportunity. Frankly, I don't care but I do care about my home values, escalating gas, food and taxes pounding away my savings. What are the real issues here and how can they be fixed. Just another distraction.

[tbone99]

To demand black fathers take care of their children out of the context of dizzying rates of incarceration, high unemployment, pervasive racism and the resulting assault those factors visits on the African American family is another fairy tale ,Obama. Why isn't he attacking black women for bringing children into such situations.?He'd get his ass kicked ,that's why. The black man is an easy target and ventriloquates white racial contempt and superiority without deeply looking at causes.

Sure . who wouldn't love for every one to have one big happy family , but its a little more complicated than blaming one person in the equation.

[edwarvir]

thone99 Senator O was right on point. He didn't speak to the women
because he was invited to speak at a church on Fathers day. If he went off message
and spoke to the ladies about motherhood the parishnors would have been upset
because it was suppose to be a Fathers day message. the Senator did not
speak to any particular race. He said if the shoe fits wear it. In other words
if you are a lousy father try and find a way to improve yourself.

Or keep it zipped. Nothing at all wrong with that.!!!!!!!!! I belong to a baptish church
Rev Jesse Jackson has visited my church more than once and I have heard
him say some of the same words to our young black youth, so I am
preplexed as to why he attacked Senator O like he did.?????/

[MsLiz]

We had a local black church put a sign out front denouncing homosexuality a few years ago. I thought, why not fornication? Surely fornication brings more misery to people than homosexuality. Then I realized that the ladies in the pews would not contribute to the collection plate or bring their out-of-wedlock children to church if the preacher said that.

[StillIRise]

As an African American mother, I agree with Senator Obama. Our children need their fathers. On another post, perhaps I will have an opportunity to discuss the need for young black women to stop having babies out of wedlock. Then, at another time, I can discuss all of the mitigating factors that have led to the disintegration of the black family, much of which can be attributed to the institutionalized racism that exists in our nation, in our justice system, our social programs, our schools, the media, and in dwindling employment opportunities for young black men. The fact that Senator Obama did not address all of these issues at Pastor Brazier's church does not mean that he is not aware of them. He was speaking to fathers on Father's Day, and he crafted his speech to speak on an issue that has become a major concern in the black community, which is the absence of fathers in the home. He has touched on the causes in many of his speeches; but on this particular day, his purpose was not to expound on the causes, but to speak to the fathers themselves. And though he was speaking to black fathers, his message was not only to all fathers, but to all mothers as well. Senator Obama was not casting blame. He was simply saying, let's do our part for our children, even as we strive to eradicate from our society the root of the problems that have complicated our lives.

[ValleyDude]

Here's why....when I see a successful black man explain why he stayed in school or talk about the sacrifices made by a family member....it is always...ALWAYS the mother or gandmother cited. It's not any more complicated than that . Obama owes his unique place in the world to the upbringing his mother provided for him, however unconventional.

Jesse Jackson, Sharpton and the Faith based 'leaders' of the community have perpetrated a fraud on their own people. Just as most clerics around the world have for ever and a day. What leadership have they provided other than being chest beaters and playing the victim.

Stay in school, get a good job, become a leader in Sports, Politics, the business world...wherever. Jesse is a bigoted, wife cheater who made his living on praying on the misery of the people he should have led.

Obama should stay away from that charleton and the Sharptons of the world who complain when other minorities like the Asians or Jews 'get a break' even though they work hard, stay in school and employ good practices when it comes to family values.

I hope he wins so he can show all diadvantaged people what it takes to do the right thing. Get a clue and stay in school, because that's how it really works in the world. Peace out!

[kincaid0329]

WHY should JESSE be mad? According to those of you who hates the Clintons - Jesse doesn't even matter. To those who love Obama so much - good luck, you are going to need it. If a African American man trashes his people, White America loves it. I am a PROUD BLACK WOMAN and live in the real world and nothing Obama says means anything to me. To poor people - go ahead and vote for this elitist and just step back and watch.

[indypete]

Kincaid, please don't buy the elitist nonsense! Obama may not be the solution to our problems but at least he's not the cause. We've had the cause of our problems in power for far too long and they are the ones who started this elitist nonsense in the first place. I beg you to reconsider your feelings on the elitist concept... it's a smokescreen. Job #1 is to get the republicans (the real elitists) out of as many offices as possible. Job #2 (assuming he wins the White House) is to force Obama to be a president who works for you and I.... the people.

[Salilu2]

Kincaid, Karl Rove and the Media Elite are the ones that classified Obama as an "elitist" which is laughable - don't buy into it. Yes, Senator Obama is a very successful man, but he grew up without a father (not with a silver spoon in his mouth), got into the best schools because of his extraordinary intelligence and proved himself equal and even better than the brightest in our land - it does make him special - not elitist. I work with Harvard lawyers - they are extraordinarily intelligent. Elitist means someone like George Bush and John McCain who got where they were through legacy not through hard work - who were bottom of their respective classes. And I think, as a child who was abandoned by his father Obama, has every right to speak on the issue of fatherless children (of all races). Be proud of him - I think he is an extraordinary man. I will be honored to vote for him this fall. (I am a 62 year old white woman). I will be so proud of the people this country if we elect him to the White House because I think he is the only one that can start to undo the horrendous damage done to this great country and the world over the last 7 1/2 years by the current "Elitist" administration.

[edwarvir]

kincaid0329 I feel very sorry for you. and I will be praying for you, because you need it We
have been voting for White people all of our lives to help make their dream
come true. and I am not going to do any less for this handsome intelligent young man named Barack Obama.
Senator Clinton and her husband when she was losing played the
RACE CARD big time. Bill stopped just short of calling Senator O
a boy, instead he said Senator O's dream of becoming president of the USA
was a fairy tale. He made light of Jesse Jackson accomplishment when he won
South Carolina. She said Dr. King could not have done anything to help us if
not for Linden Johnson, but if left to her the Civil Rights Act would have never
gone through because she was a Goldwater girl at that time and worked to get the
Civil Rights act killed. She made reference to (RFK"s) 4 time.
Vote for who you want, but make no mistake we still LOVE Rev Jesse Jackson
because without him there we be no us today!!!!!!!! DR. KING was not a dream.

[MsLiz]

Just because white people agree with Obama does not mean he is wrong. Reasonable people who care have observed that the number of out of wedlock births to young black women is a leading cause of their poverty and contributes to the socialization problems these children have. Take it from some one who spent eight years working in a juvenile court.

[billw8017]

The writer may confuse cause and effect. Given the distruction of male lives by a prejudicial justice system, young women who love their children might face a choice to take on and marry another "child," a man who really can't support them all to the degree he should want to. He becomes part of her burden rather than an asset.

If you work in a judicial court, it behooves you to endorse the system: That is, you want to believe that all those people whom it "punishes" are in fact guilty and deserving of their punishment. No doubt, some are. Being too smug about it will mislead you.

[MariaHopeful]

You trust betrayed your animus with your blatant lie. How is Obama an elitist? Or I should say yes, he is an elite. He is brighter than most. He is more principled than most. He is more handsome/beautiful than most. He has a beautiful family. So yes, he is an elite and being an elite is a good thing!

[billw8017]

I agree. The President of the United States should be among the best of us, and Senator Obama got his place in that elite for the right reason. Not as a legacy. Not from theft or fraud. He worked for it and won respect for his hard work.

It is too much to expect that he must be perfect in every way or hold the love of every possible critic. I kind of like to think he wants to work for us. I hope he is so elite that he can force real progress.

[StillIRise]

There is absolutely no logic to your comments. You begin with a question that no one has asked, and that you have not answered yourself. Then you state as fact something that has no bearing on reality. What does hating the Clintons have to do with Jesse Jackson? I don't recall his name ever even coming up during the contested primary campaign between Senator Clinton and Senator Obama, and whatever we may have felt or expressed about the Clintons during the primary, we're all on the same side now (at least most of us are, including the Clintons themselves). Also, as an African American and proud black woman myself, I have never heard Senator Obama "trash his people," and I sat in Pastor Brazier's church and listened to Senator Obama's speech on Father's Day, and joined with the rest of the congregation in applauding him. Finally, calling Senator Obama an "elitist" simply reveals your own ignorance. Either you don't know what an "elitist" is or you have chosen not to know anything about Senator Obama. If the real world you live in is as illogical and meaningless as your post, then YOU are the one who needs to take a step back!

[Hare]

I think rev JJ was mad O was in a way critical of him and his behaviour. O has been stating truths and if it applies to many blacks (MEN) then so be it. Do something about it, be a man and take care of your wife/woman and your children. Stay out of trouble, avoid drugs and bad characters, join a positive organization and salvage your community. Forget about your hair or those material things you believe impress others. Be real and inform yourself of how to change your personal circumstances and that of the children you create.

[freshnotbitter]

Jesse Jackson wants, desperately, to matter.

[JimR]

Bullseye. And I think this incident has shown everybody that he does not.

[websmith]

That makes it pretty evident where kids get their language. There was a time when men kept this kind of language amongst themselves while they were telling dirty jokes over a few drinks in their favorite watering hole. If the ladies that existed said such things, you never knew it. Now the entire country has turned into a dirty joke.

Responsible men were careful about setting and example around their kids so that they would grow up to be decent human beings able to hold a conversation with the President of the United States if the opportunity arose. Now it's, "Well, the President says it" or "Well, Clinton jumped every skank he could". Can you imagine John Kennedy or Ronald Reagan with a trash mouth?

The most memorable thing about the 2007 Masters Tournament is Tiger Woods screaming goddammit on Easter Sunday after a bad shot. Where did he learn that this was OK? He can win every tournament on the PGA Tour 10 times but he will never be considered to be at the level of Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus, or Byron Nelson until he learns how to not only play like a champion, but to behave like one.

Instead of thinking that that's the way the tough politicians that we dragged out of bars are, we should be looking for honorable decent men who come forward to serve their country.

[indypete]

"...There was a time when men kept this kind of language amongst themselves..."

While I agree that a man's language should be tempered by his company (and while I have a mouth like a sewer around my peers, my language is above reproach around ladies and kids), bear in mind the rev was under the impression that his remarks were in private.

"..."Well, the President says it"..."

I'm a bit hazy on history sometimes but wasn't it Harry Trueman who was famous for his rough language? (I'm at least sure the vintage is about right). And remember Richard "Expletive Deleted" Nixon? (He too thought his words were in private). I would imagine Reagan and Kennedy would have cussed like sailors when among "the boys". The nice suit doesn't come with a language softener.... I know my tuxedos didn't, and I wore them every night for years in my profession.

[MsLiz]

Jesse Jackson was speaking in front of a Fox microphone. Why on earth would he think his remarks were private? He was in the enemy's camp.

[ritz]

I thought his whole demeanor seemed cowardly.

[gulopartisan]

Indeed. The fact is, Jesse Jackson wouldn't have the temerity to physically assault anyone capable of defending themselves. If he were to castrate Obama, it would be while three other men held him down.

That, as well, is the telling thing about the whole "locker room" lexicon of politicians. I've been almost murderously angry at people (rarely, thank Dog) in my long life, but I've never wanted to cut off genitals, rip anyone "a new 'one'," or rape someone to show them who's boss. Those are impulses of weak, insecure, vicious, mean-spirited people, and I am saddened to learn that at the core, Jesse Jackson is just another nasty impotent bully, like Carville, Bush, and their chickenhawk ilk. These are men who hire other men to fight their battles.

[suigeneris]

>>>The truly unforgivable part of Rev. Jackson's words is not what he said, but whom he said it about. It proves, for what must be the 36,987th time at the very least, that Democrats have never taken to heart the reciprocal of Ronald Reagan's 11th Commandment: "Thou shalt not speak ill of a fellow Republican."

[politicojunkie]

Because of his own infidelities, Jesse felt Obama had stepped on his toes when he spoke to the congregation on Father's Day. JJ should have said OUCH and kept his mouth closed.

"If the shoe, fits wear it."

[JD-28]

Thank you Mr. Sweeney for your cogent, well-written, concise remarks on Jesse Jackson's comments. Unfortunately they make the case for maintaining the lowest of standards in political discourse. The good "Reverend" got caught before with his foot in his mouth when he used the term, "Hymietown".

If a white person had made the same statement about Obama, there would have been a SCREECH from the MSM as well as 99% of the left. Disgusting.

[TERRYKEITH4]

Uh... Excuse me. Ralph Nader already did that. Why do you people insist on trying to find a way that makes it look like someone is discriminating against you when it's not happening. You came up with the term "reverse discrimination" long ago. It didn't work since that term "reverse discrimination" begs to admit that discrimination exists in the first place. I am Black and I never did like Jesse Jackson, but your comment really stinks.

[DaveMacaray]

I agree with you on your main point. Oddly, I'm white and have always liked Jesse Jackson, but believe that he has to be feeling a bit "marginalized" by Obama's spectacular success, and that it was that circumstance, more than anything substantive, which prompted his remarks. In truth, Jesse is from another age. Whether he knows it or not, he's passed the baton to a new generation. Accept it, dude.

[StillIRise]

White people HAVE made similar statements ... there was a SCREECH from the MSM ... and from 99% of the left as well ... at least on occasion, when they were not given a pass. Selective memory does help however when you're trying to make an invalid point!

[Interested01]

Any substantive analysis of Reverend Jackson's words, which admittedly this blogger isn't attempting, would take into account the history of lynching, which usually involved real castration. There's something truly disturbing about Jackson's comments as well as the commentary about them, as witnessed by this post.