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The King's Homeopath?

Posted: 02/27/11 12:25 PM ET

I believe what prevents men from accepting the homeopathic principles is ignorance, but ignorance is criminal when human lives are at stake. No honest man faced with the facts of homeopathy can refuse to accept it. He has no choice. When I had to face it, I had to become a follower. There was no choice if I were to continue to be an honest man. ... Truth always demands adherence and offers no alternative.

--Sir John Weir, physician to King George VI and to four generations of British monarchs

"The King's Speech" depicts the compelling story of King George VI and his speech therapist, Lionel Logue. Lionel Logue was neither a physician nor a conventional speech therapist, but his treatment strategies were impressively successful.

The British Royal Family has been known for being exceedingly conservative and embodying traditional ideals of family and public service, but they are also known to have special appreciation and even advocacy for certain unconventional treatments that really worked, whether conventional medicine accepted them or not. Such were their experiences with Mr. Logue's speech therapy and the respected and widely practiced, but often misunderstood science and art of homeopathic medicine.

King George VI was neither the first nor the last of the British royals to use and benefit from homeopathy. Queen Adelaide (1792-1849), wife of King William IV, first made public her special interest in this "new medicine" in 1835. Other British aristocrats shared the queen's interests, including the Marquess of Anglesey who crossed the British Channel to go to Paris for treatment by the founder of homeopathy, Dr. Samuel Hahnemann (1755-1843).

Queen Adelaide had been suffering from a serious malady that the court physicians couldn't cure. The queen called for the services of one of Hahnemann's oldest and most faithful colleagues, Dr. Johann Ernst Stapf (1788-1860), who cured her, creating the first of many supporters of homeopathy among British royalty.

Various kings and queens of Great Britain since Queen Adelaide have openly sought medical care from homeopathic physicians. Queen Victoria (1837-1901) was treated by Dr Frederick Quin, the personal physician/homeopath to Prince Leopold of the Belgians, who was the great uncle of Prince Albert, Queen Victoria's much loved husband. A recent popular movie, "Young Victoria," chronicled their love affair.

Princess Mary, who later became Queen Mary (1865-1953), wife of King George V, headed the fundraising efforts to move and expand the London Homeopathic Hospital. King George V(1865-1936) was appreciative of homeopathy because it provided him with the practical benefit of treating his seasickness, a condition that he tended to experience because he was so fond of sailing.

King George V was known to have treated for this condition with Tabacum, a homeopathic dose of tobacco that was prescribed by his homeopathic doctor, Dr Sir John Weir (1879-1971).(1) Because smoking of tobacco is known to cause symptoms of dizziness and nausea, homeopathic doses of this medicine can help to relieve common symptoms experienced with seasickness.

During more recent times, a study published in a medical journal published by the American Medical Association found that Cocculus compositum (aka Vertigoheel, a mixture or formula of homeopathic medicines) was as effective as a conventional drug for dizziness...and was safer.(2) This study showed that homeopathic treatment showed a clinically relevant reduction in the mean frequency, duration, and intensity of vertigo (dizziness) attacks.

Ironically, his son, who later became King George VI (1895-1952), had a completely different experience with tobacco. In contrast, he was chronically addicted to tobacco which led to his early death. Still, King George VI was appreciative enough of homeopathy that he named a prize racehorse Hypericum, after a notable homeopathic medicine for injury to nerves.

King George VI was an expert user of homeopathic medicine, and in 1948 he showed his profound appreciation for this system of medicine by granting royal title to the London Homeopathic Hospital. It was deemed the Royal London Homeopathic Hospital for many decades, until 2010, when its name was changed to become the Royal London Hospital for Integrative Medicine.

The wife of King George VI was Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon (1900-2002), who bore two daughters, Elizabeth and Margaret. Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon become known as 'Queen Elizabeth, Queen Mother,' to differentiate her from her daughter today's Queen Elizabeth II (1926- )

The Queen Mother was particularly appreciative of the homeopathic medicine, Arnica. She asserted, "I think Arnica is the most marvelous medicine and every doctor, including those not trained in homeopathy, should use Arnica." She realized that some people are skeptical of homeopathy, but she knew that such skepticism was common in people who didn't understand homeopathy or had simply not used it. She commonly used Arnica on her dogs whenever they injured themselves and encouraged her friends to use it.

Queen Elizabeth II ascended the throne in 1952 and has been a long-time patron to the Royal London Homeopathic Hospital, which underwent a $35 million refurbishing in 2005. When Queen Elizabeth II visited the Hospital in 2000, she looked straight at the picture of Sir John Weir, who was his homeopathic physician, and said "he did a lot of good for my father." To keep up with the times, in 2010, this hospital changed its name to Royal London Hospital for Integrative Medicine.

The early growth of homeopathy in Britain in the mid-1800s became possible in large part through royal support and British aristocracy. The first British homeopath to British royalty, Dr. Frederick Quin, was a son of the Duchess of Devonshire (1765-1824), and thus himself an aristocrat. When Quin began his full-time homeopathic practice in London in 1832, he primarily treated members of his own noble class.

Today, the homeopath to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II is Dr. Peter Fisher, who is also medical director of the Royal London Hospital for Integrative Medicine.

Other European Monarchs' Love for Homeopathy

Ultimately, Sir John Weir was not only the homeopathic physician to King George VI, he also provided homeopathic treatment for six other monarchs, including King Edward VII, George V, Edward VIII, Duke of Windsor, George VI, Elizabeth II, King Gustav V of Sweden (1858-1950), and King Haakon VII of Norway (1872-1957).(3)

It is worthy of note that British royalty were not the only nobles to embrace and advocate for homeopathy. In the mid-19th century, a remarkable 77 homeopathic physicians served as the personal physicians to monarchs and their families.(4) More detail about these physicians and their treatment of various monarchs are readily available.(5)

Napoleon III and Empress Eugenie of France were known advocates of homeopathy, and in fact, Napoleon III bestowed the Knight's Cross of the Legion of Honor upon his family's homeopathic physician, Dr. A.J. Davet, as well as upon Dr. Alexandre Charge for his remarkable results using homeopathic medicines in treating patients with cholera and upon Dr. J. Mabit for his work as the head of a hospital in Bordeaux where he consistently found that homeopathic treatment was effective.

Numerous kings, queens, and dukes from Germany, Austria, Italy, Spain, and Prussia were known advocates for homeopathy as were Czar Nicholas and Czar Alexander II of Russia. Despite the immense power that these monarchs had at that time, the resistance to homeopathy from conventional physicians was so strong that these monarchs were unable to overcome the economic power of the doctors and pharmacists of that era. One reporter noted that even the czars of Russia were unable to breakdown "the Chinese wall by which the medical hierarchy surrounds its domain".(6)

Still, these monarchs could exercise their free will with any health care, and they consistently chose homeopathic treatment, making homeopathy "the royal medicine."


References:

(1) Morrell P. Tobacco: Two Royal anecdotes. BMJ. 29 January 2001, 322:203. http://www.bmj.com/content/322/7280/203.2.extract/reply

(2) Weiser, M, Strosser, W, Klein, P, "Homeopathic vs. Conventional Treatment of Vertigo: A Randomized Double-blind Controlled Clinical Study," Archives of Otolaryngology¬¬¬¬--Head and Neck Surgery, August, 1998,124:879-85. Although Tabacum is a leading medicine in homeopathy for vertigo/dizziness, this ingredient is not in this specific homeopathic formula medicine. The homeopathic medicine formula, Vertigoheel/Cocculus compositum, has been found to be effective for various ailments for which dizziness is a leading symptom.

(3) In 1939, King Haakon VII of Norway bestowed upon Sir John Weir the Knight Grand Cross of St. Olav, the highest honor granted by his country (Homoeopathy, 1939). Homoeopathy, Knight Grand Cross of St. Olav, March 1939, p. 96.

(4) Everest, Rev. T. R. A Popular View of Homeopathy. New York: William Radde, 1842.

(5) See the chapter "The Royal Medicine: Monarchs' Longtime Love for Homeopathy" in
Ullman D. The Homeopathic Revolution: Why Famous People and Cultural Heroes Choose Homeopathy. Berkeley: North Atlantic, 2007.

(6) Historical and Statistical Report of the Rise, Progress, and Present Condition of Homeopathy in Russia, Transactions of the American Institute of Homeopathy, 1876, vol. II.

 
 
 

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I believe what prevents men from accepting the homeopathic principles is ignorance, but ignorance is criminal when human lives are at stake. No honest man faced with the facts of homeopathy can refuse...
I believe what prevents men from accepting the homeopathic principles is ignorance, but ignorance is criminal when human lives are at stake. No honest man faced with the facts of homeopathy can refuse...
 
 
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Socialk
Rob Thomas CEO Social(k)
01:57 PM on 03/09/2011
Thank you for that, great read.
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ChristyRed
12:38 PM on 03/09/2011
Thanks, Dana, for another great and enlightening article -- as usual!
06:03 PM on 03/09/2011
Are you serious? The article was a fallacious argument combining appeals to popularity, celebrity and tradition. It was mostly a historical piece except that, as another commenter noted earlier on, it contained factual errors.
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ChristyRed
12:34 PM on 03/09/2011
Once again, the "skeptics" of homeopathy have proven that they are denialists not sceptics. The usual "skeptic" platform plays itself out in full here with their continual claims that:

1. All of the 100's of studies and 600 papers supporting homeopathy are flawed. Their evidence is their own, personal (anonymous and without credentials) interpretation of all this work or material re-posted from "skeptic" blogs, blogs written by "skeptics" for "skeptics".

2. All homeopaths are liars or simply "deluded" -- every last one of the 1/2 million in practice today.

3. All homeopathic patients are liars, foolish, gullible or can't tell whether they've improved or not -- every last one of the 1/2 billion users of homeopathy around the world.

4. All of the science and scientists who show us how homeopathy can work are incompetent or just plain wrong despite their world-wide recognition. (Again, this comes from anonymous posters with no credentials; people who have done no research themselves, much less published research, who have never used homeopathy and don't know anything about it.)

What's wrong with this picture?
03:18 PM on 03/09/2011
"1. All of the 100's of studies and 600 papers supporting homeopathy are flawed. Their evidence is their own, personal (anonymous and without credential­s) interpreta­tion of all this work or material re-posted from "skeptic" blogs, blogs written by "skeptics" for "skeptics"­."

No, the evidence are the meta-analyses, especially those of Shang et al (2005) and Linde et al (1999), which found that on the whole homeopathy is not efficacious. Those 100s of studies and 600 papers are found in sources that are not considered reputable because they have a documented publication bias and publish papers without adequate peer review.

"2. All homeopaths are liars or simply "deluded" -- every last one of the 1/2 million in practice today."

You forgot to mention incompetent. Yes, if you are faced with overwhelming scientific evidence that your treatments are not efficacious and you continue to prescribe them then you are delusion, incompetent, lying or some combination thereof. In any event, you should not be providing advice with respect to any serious disease.

"3. All homeopathi­c patients are liars, foolish, gullible or can't tell whether they've improved or not -- every last one of the 1/2 billion users of homeopathy around the world."

No, the patients are human and susceptible to making a number of logical fallacies. The most relevant are post hoc fallacies and regression to the mean.

"4. ..."
The Courtier's Reply has already been linked to. It is the information, not the identity, that's relevant.
03:24 PM on 03/09/2011
I think the more appropriate question is "What's familiar about this picture?"

Your post reads the same as a defender of astrology:
http://www.ehow.com/how_2163299_defend-astrology-skeptics.html

Or reflexology:
http://www.encognitive.com/node/3923

Or crystal healing:
http://kacha-stones.com/science_or_magic.htm

Do you advocate these "sciences" as well? If not, why?
07:28 PM on 03/09/2011
Excellent point. One of the advocates of homeopathy even cited Gauquelin earlier in the discussion.

I rather liked this rather inaccurate statement on the crystals page:

"The electronics industry does not use quartz because it is pretty, but because it structures energy precisely, in is this case, electricity. The natural tendency of quartz is for harmony."

Um, no, quartz is used because it is cheap and stable. There are other crystals that perform better, such as gallium phosphate, but none that match quartz on price:performance.

I also like the fact that they used a stopwatch that is clearly mechanical for their article about crystal healing. In that the whole page is about quartz crystals I am pretty sure they did not include it for its ruby bearings (and in any event the watch looked cheap and unlikely to contain ruby bearings).
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Paul Robertson
07:27 AM on 03/08/2011
I'm top posting this. Most beautiful irony-fail. Make sure you expand the thread.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/DrNancyMalik/the-kings-homeopath_b_827499_79893940.html
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ChristyRed
12:06 PM on 03/08/2011
So what?
09:40 PM on 03/08/2011
The story linked to says that the Royal Homeopathic Hospital has "Such is the demand that it has just opened a 'herbal clinic'" (a non-homeopathic clinic) and that "GPs' homeopathic prescriptions have fallen by 40 per cent in two years." This seems to indicate that people are losing faith in homeopathy.
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Paul Robertson
10:26 PM on 03/08/2011
My original post was ironically pointing out the homeopathic reliance on anecdotal evidence. So Nancy linked me some anecdotal evidence for homeopathy. I found that amusing.
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ChristyRed
12:10 PM on 03/08/2011
People are describing their very positive experiences with herbal and homeopathic medicines. Apparently, that's a problem for some.
10:28 PM on 03/08/2011
It's not a problem. It's just not a very good source of information. People tend to find patterns and relationships that don't exist. Our brains are just wired that way. People may believe that something helped them but that does not mean that their believes reflect reality.
03:21 PM on 03/09/2011
How many times must it be explained to you that anecdotal evidence is unreliable? That is why science uses techniques such as randomized controlled tests with double blinding.
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DrNancyMalik
Evidence-based Homeopathy
06:56 AM on 03/08/2011
ONLINE DATABASE of Homeopathy Research

1. PubMed Central (National Library of Medicine, USA)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pmc.Pmc_LimitsTab.LimitsOff=true&db=pmc&cmd=search&term=homeopathy (1906-till date)

2. Cochrane http://www.library.nhs.uk/cam/ViewResource.aspx?resID=295205 (2008) // hypericum for depression

3. HomBRex
http://www.carstens-stiftung.org/ // 1190 experiments on homeopathy in more than 900 original articles, including 1014 biological studies
01:46 PM on 03/08/2011
Did you actually read any of these pages, and/or follow the links? I did. Here's the first one from the PubMed link:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2291233/?report=abstract&tool=pmcentrez

The conclusion: "The complex of homeopathy tested in this study was not superior to placebo in reducing 24 h morphine consumption after knee ligament reconstruction."

The other PubMed links seem to be patient reported surveys or historical reviews of homeopathy. Hardly conclusive research on the efficacy of homeopathy.

The Cochrane reference is to a study on St. Johns Wort-- which has nothing to do with homeopathy.

The HomBRex link displays as a blank page for me.

Zero for three on this post. I am beginning to think that homeopathy causes nothing more than red herrings. Following these links is proving to be a waste of time for me and the others you have tricked into following them.
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ChristyRed
02:55 PM on 03/08/2011
Dr. Malik's first link to PubMed brings up 1,200 studies. The first page includes:

1. "Use of Homeopathy in Pediatric Oncology in Germany" which states: "Homeopathy is the most frequently used CAM treatment in pediatric oncology in Germany. Compared to other CAM treatments, patient satisfaction with homeopathy appears to be very high."

Remember, please, that according to the records of GSK, conventional cancer treatments are effective in only 25% of patients. (The Independent, December 8, 2003)

Also, the conclusion to this study: "The Contribution of Cytotoxic Chemotherapy to 5-year Survival in Adult Malignancies", which reads: "This study clearly proved that we need to shift our focus toward an integrative form of cancer treatment and that we need to put that effort in place as soon as possible."

www.bangkokpost.com/entertainment/music/211760/integrative-cancer-therapy

2. "Patient Satisfaction and Side Effects in Primary Care" which states: "Overall patient satisfaction was significantly higher in homeopathy than in conventional care. Homeopathy treatments were perceived as a low-risk therapy with 2 to 3 times fewer side effects than conventional care."

3. "Classical homeopathy in the treatment of cancer patients" which states: "In our prospective study we observed an improement of quality of life as well as a tendency of fatigue symptoms to decrease in cancer patients under complementary homeopathic treatment."
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DrNancyMalik
Evidence-based Homeopathy
09:34 PM on 03/08/2011
Use of Hypericum in homeopathy medicine

American Journal of Homoeopathic Medicine
Homeopathic treatment of dental neuralgia by Arnica and Hypericum., Albertini H, Goldberg W, Sanguy B, Toulza CL., 1985, 3, pp. 126-129. // 60 people received either 4 pilules of Arnica 7C alternated with 4 pilules of Hypericum 15C every 4 hours or placebo administered in the same way. Pain levels were assessed over 3 days from the beginning of the trial. It was found that 12 of the 30 people who received the placebo had a positive response to this intervention, and 23 of the 30 people (76%) given the homeopathic medicines responded positively to these.

Sorry that the link on HomBRex did no worked. Here's the correct one
http://www.carstens-stiftung.de/
www.camnetwerk.nl/HomBRex%20database%20mei%202007.pdf
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DrNancyMalik
Evidence-based Homeopathy
06:40 AM on 03/08/2011
SYSTEMATIC POSITIVE REVIEWS & META ANALYSIS (1991-2008) [6 Comprehensive (2 on placebo effect + 2 on high dilutions) + 11 specific medical condition)
http://www.homeopathyeurope.org/about-homeopathy/clinical-research/experimental-studies
http://www.facultyofhomeopathy.org/research/systematic_reviews/index.html
01:58 PM on 03/08/2011
The papers listed here as "positive for homeopathy" include, in their conclusions, such gems as:

"Current evidence does not support a preventative effect of Oscillococcinum-like homeopathic medicines in influenza and influenza-like syndromes" (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16855981)

I emphasize that this was included in a list of studies purported to be "positive for homeopathy". I am beginning to think that homeopathy causes nothing more than red herrings. Following these links is proving to be a waste of time for me and the others you have tricked into following them.
09:27 PM on 03/08/2011
I have found that a lot of the sources that I was referred to did not find what the homeopaths claim the found. I am beginning to question whether the people posting these links read or understand the studies. If they have then it is difficult for me to believe that they are not deliberately trying mislead me.
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ChristyRed
09:30 PM on 03/08/2011
In reading the material in the link to "homeopathy europe" site, I find this:

"Four out of five major systematic reviews of RCT's in homeopathy have concluded that homeopathy has an effect greater than placebo." And, "A total of 142 randomized controlled trials (RCT's) in homeopathy have been published in good quality scientific journals.....systematic reviews of RCT's in specific medical areas have been positive for homeopathy, for example, in hayfever, fibromyalgia, sinusitis and vertigo."

In reading the link to the "faculty of homeopathy" site, I find this: "Of the 105 trials with interpretable results, 81 indicated positive results.....the evidence presented in this review would probably be sufficient for establishing homeopathy as a regular treatment for certain indications." And regarding 89 trials, "The main conclusion was that the results 'were NOT compatible with the hypothesis that the effects of homeopathy are completely due to placebo." And, "Conclusions positive for homeopathy are in: allergies and upper respiratory tract infections, childhood diarrhea, INFLUENZA treatment, post operative ileus, rheumatic disease, seasonal allergic rhinitis and upper respiratory tract diseases including otitis media."

Your welcome to take it or leave it. Those of us who know and use homeopathy know that it's capable of treating and curing far more than the few conditions noted here.
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DrNancyMalik
Evidence-based Homeopathy
05:17 AM on 03/08/2011
HIGH DILUTION RESEARCH (Serial-agitated ultra-molecular dilutions/Dilutions beyond Avogadro number)
Nature
Human basophil degranulation triggered by very dilute antiserum against IgE (1988)
http://www.criticandokardec.com.br/benveniste01.pdf
This is Jacques Benveniste’s famous “memory of water” study. Three other labs replicate the results before the paper was published—an unprecedented requirement.
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Dyson
debunking pseudoscience, one fallacy at a time.
07:05 PM on 03/08/2011
That would be the one that was comprehensively debunked then, would it?
Next please.
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DrNancyMalik
Evidence-based Homeopathy
09:44 PM on 03/08/2011
Inflammation Research (Springer)
Histamine 15-19C modulates anti-igE stimulated human basophil (CD63) activation (2004)
http://vetpath.co.uk/voodoo/histamine.pdf // The model is different to that of Benveniste; he used the same control but not the same activator.
10:24 PM on 03/08/2011
I look up Beneveniste on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Benveniste

It appears that it the 20+ years since that paper nobody has been able to duplicate the study although it was attempted many times. It seems to me that Beneviste's findings are about as true as the discovery of cold fusion by Fleischman and Pons.
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DrNancyMalik
Evidence-based Homeopathy
12:19 AM on 03/09/2011
Dr. Benveniste's study was replicated in the study shown below but not 100% reproducible

Complementary Therapies in Medicine (Elseiver)

The in vitro evidence for an effect of high homeopathic potencies—A systematic review (2007)
http://www.hiscia.ch/uploads/media/Witt2007.pdf // 73% of studies shows effects with serial agitated ultra-molecular dilutions
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DrNancyMalik
Evidence-based Homeopathy
05:03 AM on 03/08/2011
BASIC RESEARCH in homeopathy
Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences
Thermodynamics of extremely diluted aqueous solutions (1999)
http://www.homeopathy.org/research/basic/Elia.pdf //Successive dilutions and succussions may alter permanently the physical-chemical properties of the solvent water
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Dyson
debunking pseudoscience, one fallacy at a time.
07:09 PM on 03/08/2011
Nancy, could you perhaps paraphrase this study and point out its salient and significant conclusions?
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DrNancyMalik
Evidence-based Homeopathy
09:41 PM on 03/08/2011
This study was replicated in
Journal of Thermal Analysis and Calorimetry
New Physico-Chemical Properties of Extremely-Diluted Aqueous Solutions (2004)
http://bit.ly/hZztMs // The procedure of dilutions and succussions is capable of modifying in a permanent way the physico-chemical features of water
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Dyson
debunking pseudoscience, one fallacy at a time.
05:42 PM on 03/10/2011
I take that as a "No" then.
03:12 AM on 03/09/2011
According to Web of Science, of the 34 times that article has been cited only 17 were in journals related to chemistry, physics or materials science. Of those 17 papers in the relevant subject area of the study, all except 4 (one of which is the discredited paper by Rostrum Roy) were other papers by the lead author.

Two of those citations were to support the following statement:

"All glassware were made of pure fused optical silica (Suprasil, Heraeus, and Hellma) in order to minimize container/content interaction."

No article in areas of chemistry, physics or materials science has cited that remaining article by Demangeat except one other article by Demangeat.

In short, the article you rely upon is not considered valuable to anybody with expertise in chemistry, physics or materials science, except the original author and Demangeat, both of whom are homeopathy advocates, has considered this article valuable except for the principle that pure fused silica is desirable as a container material that reduces the likelihood of contamination.
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Paul Robertson
05:05 PM on 03/06/2011
Nancy linked me a more recent version of Milgrom's homeopathic entanglement theory (http://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/ecam/2007/652024.pdf). It's more or less the same as the last one but is now even more sciencoidal (thanks AJW). While it has retained the same classic faith-healer aspects (DB RCTs don't work because the homeopath doesn't have full faith in the outcome because of the blinding.) Migrom has now also added the invisible boy gambit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_Men#The_Heroes). This was, I must say, a master stroke as it places homeopathy permanently beyond scrutiny. Milgrom even graciously invites other alternative medicines to jump on the band wagon and share this new immunity from the scientific method.

Of course, this is predicated on the acceptance of the rather unorthodox extension of quantum theory. I'll let Milgrom explain this bit himself:
"Indeed, the non-commuting algebraic formulation of orthodox quantum theory (which contains the extremely small number called Planck’s constant, h [formula]) would appear to preclude such quantum effects between macroscopic objects/ entities."
Yes it does. However, Milgrom goes on to cite himself and some of his colleagues in homeopathy in support of this proposition which, despite the number of references, appears to have no basis other than wishful thinking and wordplay. Planck's constant, and quantum theory in general has a solid experimental basis. I would expect something rather more impressive than a hunch before discarding current scientific wisdom.
12:00 AM on 03/07/2011
How can we have faith in a three way quantum wave entanglement? Oh, hold on... he uses a psi symbol, with a couple of other Greek letters thrown in. Well, that's good enough for me!

Seriously, this reads like a physics term paper assembled by cutting and pasting disparate snips of various theories together. If we are to accept the entanglement of the practitioner, then what about all of the OTC homeopathic remedies? Is there special "entanglement room" at Boiron headquarters, staffed 24/7 in case anyone takes Oscillococ­cinum?
09:57 PM on 03/08/2011
If Milgrom's theory is true then there should not be any randomized control studies that show homeopathy is better than a placebo. At the same time the pro-homeopathy people say that those studies exist (even though when I actually read the study they are usually of very low quality or find a very weak effect).

I like "sciencoidal" but shouldn't the term be "scientoidal"? "Science" comes from "scientia" so I think the term should be "scientoidal", no?
03:13 AM on 03/09/2011
Touchee
10:31 PM on 03/05/2011
Isn't if funny that those who don't believe in the principle of homeopathy have never tried it?
And also that they spend so much energy trying to negate it?
Couldn't that energy be used more positively?
You could always take another one of your pharmaceuticals and then get back to me.
06:13 AM on 03/06/2011
I have tried Oscillococcinum. So have friends of mine, and members of my family. It did not lead to a belief in the principles of homeopathy. It did lead to a belief that we were ripped off.

Your comment does not dissuade me from pointing out, again and again, what a ripoff it is. I don't want anyone else wasting their money as I did. I certainly don't want anyone being fooled to the point of avoiding real medical care.
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DrNancyMalik
Evidence-based Homeopathy
12:25 PM on 03/06/2011
British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology (British Pharmacological Society)
Oscillococcinum in the treatment of influenza (1989)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1379831/pdf/brjclinpharm00089-0054.pdf
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ChristyRed
12:27 PM on 03/06/2011
Killing Us Slowly (With Their Drugs)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZDlZmxCu85c

Homeopathy = Extraordinary Medicine for Extraordinary Cures -- Safe and Inexpensive
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StThomas
Not until I see the holes of the nails....
06:53 AM on 03/06/2011
Second try. By that reasoning , People who think about cliffs decide that jumping off cliffs is bad without trying it, are wrong.
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StThomas
Not until I see the holes of the nails....
07:00 AM on 03/06/2011
Oops
By that reasoning, people who think about cliffs, and decide not to without trying it, are wrong!
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StThomas
Not until I see the holes of the nails....
07:10 AM on 03/06/2011
I can't get anything right this morning! How about:
It is possible to assess something properly without experiencing it directly.
10:19 PM on 03/05/2011
Aren't we limiting ourselves if we only prove what we see?
Our sense of sight is a wonderful thing but let's tune into more than that.
Practice your other senses or you will lose them, unfortunately many of
us have already lost them.
12:10 AM on 03/06/2011
An odd exhortation. We can't see atoms -- yet it is the existence of atoms, and in particular their sizes, that demonstrates that homeopathy cannot possibly be right.
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Sheldon101
sheldon101blog.blogspot.com Wakefield transcripts
12:53 AM on 03/06/2011
Do tell.
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Ergon
Man From Atlan
01:23 PM on 03/06/2011
How so?
09:58 AM on 03/05/2011
If as suggested by..."http://www­.ncbi.nlm.­nih.gov/pu­bmed/16296­916 "Are randomized controlled trials (RCTs) redundant for testing the efficacy of homeopathy­? A critique of RCT methodolog­y based on entangleme­nt theory." Homeopathic remedies can not be tested by RCT's which is this recent study evidence of "PPR entanglement" http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/11/101115122645.htm '...... In a study published in the journal Rheumatology, the researchers found that arthritis patients significantly benefited when they received homeopathy alongside conventional treatment over a period of 6 months, but this improvement was due to homeopathy's consultation process and not its remedies........."

Again I ask the question "In any case a little sunshine and a homeopathi­c remedy appear as least as effective as SSRI's for depression ; could they also be as effective in the treatment of osteopenia as the commonly given drugs.? " I noticed the responses previous post failed to answer that question. If anyone suggest the answer is no...
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Paul Robertson
06:45 PM on 03/05/2011
The effectiveness of many commonly given drugs for osteopenia is currently being questioned (science likes to question itself), so you're setting a low bar for homeopathy here. Do you have any other ineffective treatments that you'd like to compare homeopathy to?
(apologies for the wikipedia link - I haven't had my coffee yet and I'm feeling lazy)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopenia#Treatment_and_controversy

Homeopathy has been shown to have a strong placebo effect. This in no way proves or supports the "entanglement theory" of homeopathy. Use of placebos is a tricky ethical question, but I actually have no problem with homeopaths treating people for minor ailments that have been shown to respond strongly to a placebo. The problem is that homeopaths collectively feel no need to so limit themselves and are perfectly willing to "vaccinate" children, "treat" cancer or to prescribe homeopathic "anti-malarials"; all in lieu of standard medical treatment. I would put osteopenia, a degenerative disease where lack of medical attention could potentially result in irreversible harm, in the category of conditions that homeopaths should stay away from. A little self-restraint from homeopaths would go a long way towards reducing the opposition from the skeptic community.
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ChristyRed
08:51 PM on 03/05/2011
Critics argue that homeopathy is like a super-placebo and that the long interview done by an empathic homeopath to gather the patient's health history/facts explains why patients report improvement with homeopathy.

A research team investigated whether or not contextual effects are higher in homeopathy than in ConMed by comparing the changes in the placebo groups of RCT's from classical h'pathy and matching conventional trials.

The authors performed a systematic literature analysis on placebo-controlled, double-blind RCT's on classical homeopathy. Each trial was matched to 3 placebo-controlled, DB RCT's from ConMed - mainly pharmaceuticals - involving the same diagnosis. Matching criteria included severity of complaints, choice of outcome parameter and treatment duration. Outcome was measured as the % of change of symptom scores from baseline to end of treatment in the placebo group. 35 RCT's on classical h'pathy were identified. 10 were excluded because no relevant data could be extracted or less than 3 matching conventional trials could be located.

The results showed that in 13 matched sets the placebo effect in the h'pathy trials was larger than the average placebo effect of the conventional trials. In 12 matched sets it was lower (P=0.39). Additionally no subgroup analysis yielded any significant difference.

The authors conclude that placebo effects in classical h'pthy did not appear to be larger than in conventional medicine.

Nuhn, et al., 2010
10:09 PM on 03/05/2011
Did you actually read the article to which you linked?

The headline reads:

"Homeopathic Consultations -- But Not Homeopathic Remedies -- Linked to Benefits for Patients, Study Finds"

The reasonable interpretation is that doctors should be given additional training with respect to patient consultation and that their remuneration should be arranged in a way that will encourage them to spend more time per patient. It does not in any way support treating patients with homeopathic remedies. In fact it says the opposite.
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Sheldon101
sheldon101blog.blogspot.com Wakefield transcripts
05:28 AM on 03/05/2011
Bayes Theory and Homeopathy
------------------------------------------------
I have a hard time understanding Bayes Theory. But this is pretty clear.
"An example will explain these points. Wayne Jonas was the Director of the US Office of Alternative Medicine from 1995 until its metamorphosis into the NCCAM in 1999. He is the co-author, along with Jennifer Jacobs, of Healing with Homeopathy: the Doctors’ Guide (©1996), which unambiguously asserts that ultra-dilute homeopathic preparations have specific effects. Yet Jonas is also the co-author (with Klaus Linde) of a 2005 letter to the Lancet that includes this statement, prefacing his argument that homeopathy, already subjected to hundreds of clinical trials, has not been disproved and deserves further trials:
We agree that homoeopathy is highly implausible and that the evidence
from placebo-controlled trials is not robust.

[The author of THE study on homeopathic vaccines wrote that!!]
Bayes’s theorem shows that Jonas can’t have it both ways. Either he doesn’t really agree that homeopathy is highly implausible (which seems likely, unless he changed his mind between 1996 and 2005—oops, he didn’t); or, if he does, he needs to recognize that his statement quoted above is equivalent to arguing that the homeopathy ‘hypothesis’ has been disproved, at least to an extent sufficient to discourage further trials. "

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=11304
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]
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ChristyRed
12:49 PM on 03/05/2011
In fact, more and more studies on homeopathy are being published, almost daily, showing that homeopathy works. Examples:

Psorinum Therapy in Treating Patients with Advanced Non-small Cell Lung Carcinoma (NSCLC): A Phase-II Single Arm Clinical Trial
Chatterjie, 2010

Inflammatory Process Modulation by Homeopathic Arnica montana 6CH: The Role of Individual Variation
Kawakami, 2011

Low-grade Inflammation in Chronic Disease: An Integrative Pathophysiology Anticipated by Homeopathy
Adler, 2011

OTH, this interesting article was printed in the Telegraph today, March 5, 2011:

"Millions of NHS patients have been treated with controversial drugs on the basis of 'fraudulent research' by one of the world's leading anaesthetists, the Daily Telegraph can disclose.

Joachim Boldt is at the centre of a criminal investigation amid allegations that he may have forged up to 90 crucial studies on the treatment."

http://avilian.co.uk
10:02 PM on 03/04/2011
Is the RCT a relevant way to test the effectiveness of homeopathy.? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16296916 "Are randomized controlled trials (RCTs) redundant for testing the efficacy of homeopathy? A critique of RCT methodology based on entanglement theory." "'.....A previously developed theoretical model of entanglement in homeopathy between patient, practitioner, and remedy (called PPR entanglement) was used in this investigation.

RESULTS: The adherence to RCT methodology could result in such trials completely disrupting the formation or survival of any three-way PPR entangled state."

In any case a little sunshine and a homeopathic remedy appear as least as effective as SSRI's for depression ; could they also be as effective in the treatment of osteopenia as the commonly given drugs.?
11:07 PM on 03/04/2011
That article is an excellent example of the misappropriation of quantum mechanic's nomenclature to produce pseudo-scientific tripe. It's entire argument is premised on a "homeopahtic entanglement" occurring between the homeopath, the patient and the homeopathic.

I am not a quantum physicist but I would *love* to see one weight in on that article. I suspect that it was articles such as that which prompted Rosenblum and Kuttner to write Quantum Enigma.

Of the 19 times that article was cited in publications indexed by Web of Science, only 1 was in a reputable journal. That sole citation was to support the following statement:

"Homeopathic physicians seem to
clutch onto the straws of a series
of poorly designed or underpowered
studies to retain their credibility or
claim that the randomized controlled
trial is an inappropriate methodology
to assess their belief system in the
name of postmodern relativism."

And their response:

"We wonder whether any kind of
evidence would persuade homeopathic
physicians of their self-delusion and
challenge them to design a methodologically
sound trial, which if negative would finally
persuade them to shut up shop."

Source: Baum, M and E. Erst (2009), "Should We Maintain an Open Mind about Homeopathy?", 122 Am. J. Med. 11:973-974 (doi:10.1016/j.amjmed.2009.03.038)
11:15 PM on 03/04/2011
Upon further consideration of my response I must apologize to any tripe that may be offended at the association.
12:09 AM on 03/05/2011
For a later Lionel Milgrom paper advocating a non-sequitur PPR macroscopic quantum entanglement theory of homeopathy, check out:

"Conspicuous by its absence: the Memory of Water, macro-entanglement, and the possibility of homeopathy”

http://www.badscience.net/2000/01/journal-club-conspicuous-by-its-absence-the-memory-of-water-macro-entanglement-and-the-possibility-of-homeopathy/

While Samuel Hahnemann in the days before scientific medicine may have had an excuse for just making up a theory and assuming it to be true, Milgrom has no such excuse. Since RCTs don't give him the answers he wants, Milgrom decides to make up fanciful, sciencey sounding excuses. Not content to claim that water is made in to magic homeopathic water that affects magic vital force (none of which homeopaths can actually detect) he posits a magic three way entanglement between doctor, patient and homeopathic remedy, following the principle, "If all else fails, just pull stuff de novo out of your--um--brain."

Check out Orac's take down:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/08/your_friday_dose_of_woo_a_homeopathic_jo.php
11:19 PM on 03/04/2011
Vincealy, do you have **any idea** what that study is supposed to be about? Or do you just quote random books and papers that sound fancy?

Basically, in the paper Lionel Milgrom (a Director of the Society of Homeopaths) essentially admits that homeopathy doesn't work:

"Randomized controlled trials (RCTs) have yet to deliver unequivocal results demonstrating the efficacy (or otherwise) of homeopathic remedies and individualized homeopathic prescribing. "

But rather than say "Science Works! Homeopathy is just a placebo!" and move move on to studying real medicine, Milgrom decides it just couldn't be that homeopathy is wrong. How could a 200 year-old, pre-scientific theory of disease and treatment be wrong? No, that just isn't possible to him. Instead he decides that RCTs must not work because they don't give him the answers he wants. So he just makes stuff up and posits that there is a magic 3-way "entanglement" created by the patient, practitioner and the remedy (PPR)--based on some vague invocation of quantum theory. And he further posits that somehow the magic "entanglement" is broken by proper randomized placebo trials. I guess the treatment magically knows it is part of a controlled trial and just refuses to work, even for the non-placebo track--you know, the way God refuses to work for prayer studies, doesn't like to be tricked into revealing himself (check the Hitchickers Guide to the Universe for why that would be bad...) Who knows? Lionel Milgrom certainly doesn't.
01:53 AM on 03/05/2011
"Vincealy, do you have **any idea** what that study is supposed to be about? Or do you just quote random books and papers that sound fancy?"

My money is on: "No" and "Yes", respectively.
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Jimserac
ONE from Many ...
09:17 AM on 03/05/2011
Nor do I subscribe to the so called quantum theory explanations of Homeopathy.

There are many ways to attack Homeopathy - but the skeptics continue to do it the wrong way because they fear? a direct assault on its key foundations - the reports, case studies and analyses, in some cases reported in medical journals with a continuity of over a century. What do these so called skeptics of Homeopathy do instead? They foam at the mouth about obviously speculative quantum theories, ignore pharmacological research by M. Ennis clearly showing biological effects from high dilutions or else try to discredit it by falsely claiming other labs have never repeated it, or else try to point us to some unpublished BBC documentary that, as she clearly exposed afterwards, did NOT follow her clearly established testing protocol or else they engage in misrepresentation, innuendo, or tell everyone that the Homeopaths are "lying". How pathetic.
Is THIS the skepticism to be expected from rational, objective and scientifically aware respondents??

Crack open a Homeopathic repertory, seek out contradictions, tell us why when a remedy is used, repeatedly on different patients with certain characteristics, in different parts of the world, for certain symptom patterns, that same remedy cures the patient - in acute conditions the cure or relief follows often quite quickly after its administration. Please don't resort to pathetic placebo rationalizations and stop playing armchair scientists - let the real scientists do their work.

Now skepticize. Try to do it right.
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StThomas
Not until I see the holes of the nails....
01:04 PM on 03/04/2011
Something that all sides of the debates on Huffo heath may be interested in:
http://www.quackometer.net/blog/2011/03/director-of-the-society-of-homeopaths-threatens-libel-action-against-paul-offit.html
07:49 PM on 03/04/2011
Wow! I was unaware of that aspect of the backstory re: Wakefield.

This is why a number of jurisdictions are considering and/or implementing legislation preventing or summarily dismissing SLAPPs (strategic litigation against public policy).

The problem the plaintiff will have is that:

1) the defence of fair comment will likely apply; and,

2) truth is a complete defence to an action in defamation.

On a positive note, the Society of Homeopaths will likely have sufficient funds to pay the significant costs award that will likely follow.
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Sheldon101
sheldon101blog.blogspot.com Wakefield transcripts
10:21 AM on 03/05/2011
The publisher has agreed to remove the offending sentence, so I don't think there will be a court case.
10:47 PM on 03/04/2011
Interesting article. That sort of litigation is one reason why a number of jurisdictions are considering anti-SLAPP (Strategic Legislation Against Public Policy) legislation.

England is a cost-shifting jurisdiction, which means that the plaintiff will be ordered to pay the defendant's costs in the litigation, and, on the face of it, truth and the qualified public interest privilege appear to apply.