The Health Care Bill and Latinos
I've avoided commenting on the health care controversy too much because, first, it's a massively complex issue that would require several posts to do justice, and second, I have no desire to spend time purging my inbox of illiterate screeds that insist I'm a socialist under President Obama's evil spell.
However, I do have to make a few points about the legislation that Congress is considering. Because my focus is on Hispanic culture, let me throw some information about Latinos' health care at you.
Hispanics are younger than the general population, and therefore enjoy the health benefits that come with youth. Also, when compared to white people, we tend to have healthier hearts (yes, despite our infamous hot tempers) and are less likely to suffer a stroke.
However, these pluses must be balanced against the fact that we tend to be fatter, have a greater risk for diabetes, and are less likely to be fully immunized when compared to the majority culture.
Most interesting is that Latinos are the group most likely to be uninsured. A stunning 40 percent of Hispanics don't have insurance, which no doubt accounts for a large chunk of the overall uninsured rate of 16 percent.
Of course, one reason for that is because the current system makes it difficult for immigrants to get insurance. And since we're on that subject...
It's telling that despite all the problems, controversies, conspiracy theories, and whacked-out distractions that accompany the health care debate, only one concept provoked a U.S. congressman to shatter decades of political etiquette and indulge in a childish outburst. You no doubt remember this magical moment:
What got Congressman Wilson so up in arms was Obama's statement that illegal immigrants would not be covered under his plan. Now, it's one thing to shout insults at the president on live television. It takes even more cojones when you're wrong.
In fact, illegal immigrants are not covered under any public option. Nor would they be provided with vouchers to help them pay for insurance. The Senate version of the bill even prevents them from buying insurance on public exchanges.
So it seems pretty clear that they're not covered, right? Well, what has Wilson supporters screaming that their man was right is that the House version of the bill does not specifically bar illegal immigrants from buying insurance with their own money at full cost.
Regardless of political ideology, it strains logic to say that this provision means that taxpayers will have to pay for illegal immigrants' health care. Actually, it seems to me that it would be the other way around, in that illegal immigrants would pay full price and help lower the costs for everyone. But I'm not an economist, much less a right-wing one.
The only way to appease the nativist crowd is if illegal immigrants are not allowed to buy anything in this country with their own money. Their cash, incidentally, is usually earned by repairing your roof, picking your vegetables, and raising your kids. But that's another story.
By the way, one late amendment would send the bill for illegal immigrants' health care to their countries of origin, which is at least a creative (albeit farfetched) approach. I'm sure, however, that this idea will go nowhere.
In any case, we can have a legitimate discussion about how much all this costs, and if it's the best way to address the problem, and how to address the health care of non-citizens. But we're not having that discussion, because too many people are busy shouting "Communist!" and accusing Obama of setting up death panels while dishing out free health care to illegal immigrants.
In a decade or so, after all this is sorted out and the United States has some kind of public health care, we'll be stumped over what all the screaming was about. That's my hope, anyway.
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I wish it were as simple as Cubias says, that illegals would end up paying the "full price." What will happen is what happens across the market today when companies want to attract the business of illegals. They lower the prices of products for them to get their business volume (sometimes lowering quality at the same time.) They support illegals not because they care for them but because more illegals means more money for them. They spread any additional cost and inconvenience that illegals bring to communities among the rest of us as they raise their income. They make speaking Spanish a job requirement, thus elevating those who grew up in bilingual Spanish speaking families, not because those who speak Spanish bring qualitatively better skills but because illegals who don't speak English create their own market. Customer service becomes nonexistent because the illegals don't demand it, don't value it because they haven't experienced it or are afraid to ask for it lest their status be put at further risk. Ask yourself, "Why did the price of drywall drop dramatically at Home Depot during this economic downturn but at the same time, the price of metal products used by persons who generally must be licensed rose?" These thoughts don't necessarily prove that illegals should be excluded but they argue for a much more serious look at the economic and social impact if they are.
A few points:
Hispanic-Americans are Americans. Recent immigrants who are in the country legally are another catagory. Illegal immigrants a catagory all their own.
Illegal immigrants come from all over the world and are of all races. A majority may be Hispanic, but the illegal immigrants issue is not a "Hispanic" issue, it's an issue of people being here against the law.
Illegal immigrnats should be excluded from public funded health care, except for immediate emergencies. Saying that illegal immigrants are not covered by the legislation is not enough. There must be iron-clad provisions that not only exclude illegals, but that also provide the protocols and mechanisms for determining their status. The country is full of "sanctuary cities" in which the law of the land is ignored. That's the "lie" Joe Wilson was referring to. It's one thing to say illegals will not be covered, it's quite another to make sure the law is enforced. Frankly, I don't trust thos who would amnesty millions of illegal immigrants.
So you would rather pay more as a taxpayer for "immediate emergencies" for illegal immigrants than just pay a little bit for preventative care? (keep in mind, they would be paying into it too, premiums are still premiums).
If a $100 mammogram could catch breast cancer early enough to prevent the cancer from becoming full blown and costing over $40,000 for treatment, then don't you think it's worth it to dish out the $100 for a mammogram instead?
But if illegals can't get health insurance (which they would help pay for through premiums), then they won't get preventative care which will result in more "immediate emergencies" that the taxpayer alone is on the hook for.
So as a Conservative Alex, what is more important to you? Fiscal responsibility? Or making sure illegals don't have access to health insurance like citizens do? You can't it have both ways.
So let the illegals get flu and other communicable diseases, because we're too vindictive to give them immunizations or other preventive measures. Won't affect OUR health, right? I mean, if the illegals get sick we won't catch it from them because we're here legally so we must be immune to their sicknesses. Your position is just so PRACTICAL, I can hardly stand it. It's not like PUBLIC health has anything to do with it.
Actually, it's in everybody's best interests to let everyone have access to healthcare whether they are here illegally or not.
Everyone should be immunized for anything that's available to them. That is how we (almost) eradicated Polio............. if you ignore one huge segment of the population, then it's simply not effective. And babies who are too young for certain vaccines will be put at risk (yes, that includes your children.)
Second, why shouldn't illegal immigrants be able to buy their own policies with their own money? It's actually CHEAPER for the tax payer that way. If an illegal could have gotten an EKG and found out that they had a heart problem, then they could deal with it before they have a costly visit to the ED with a heart attack (which the taxpayers would pick up the tab for).
In fact, the above reason is an excellent argument for letting them buy into the Public Option too, because we will be paying for it anyway........ That old saying (an ounce of prevention = a pound of cure) is perfectly true and applicable to this situation in both healthcare and economics.
For people who preach personal responsibility, allowing illegal immigrants buy their own health insurance means that they ARE doing exactly that. So I don't understand how anyone thinks it makes sense to PREVENT ANYONE from having health insurance when it causes people to suffer unnecessarily and cost us all more in the end? Boggles my mind.........
It is not in America's interest to let illegal immigration get worse. Nothing should be done to make their lives here easier. They should be sent home. In the long run that is best for our country, it's people, and it's environment. You assume the illegals are going to remain; many of us don't accept this.
You whole premise id flawed because you accept as "reality" that endless millions of illegal immigrants will continue to come and then remain. The best way to deal with all illegal immigrant related health problems is to repatriate them to their own countries. We need to use our own resources to care for our own people. The $150 billion we spend on illegal immigrants at every level in this country every year would pay for a lot of much needed health care for Americans and their legal immigrant guests.
If employment law were enforced, there wouldn't be an issue.
OF COURSE illegals cannot "buy their own policies." They are in the country illegally!
I am completely supportive of legal immigrants having access to the public option, but illegal immigrants should have access to nothing.
Right on!
What makes the most sense is to send illegal immigrants home. That makes their health problems and how they may affect us a moot point. Many previously eliminated medical conditions in our country have been reintroduced by illegal immigrants. Many hospitals have had to shut down because of the enormous financial burdens imposed on them by illegal immigrants. None of this makes sense.
Finding ways to make the lives of those who aren't even supposed to be here easier by saying it "helps us" in some way makes no sense at all.
Yes, its the employer shipping his Modern Slave Labor force from poor, illiterate regions of Mexico, Central and South America that should be prosecuted.. Legal Citizens of the US screech because our taxes are already sky high for very little return---and it seems our govt has no muscle to enforce immigration laws already on the books----well it seems no muscle against Illegal Hispanic immigrants because they certainly have no problem enforcing immigration laws against other immigrants who don't have a border to stealthily run across. Its not like we don't care about the human aspect of these people looking for a better life----its the Illegal aspect and the cost to an already overburdened public service system and taxes that keep rising.
I just wish there was more of a push by Latino Rights groups to make sure ALL Hispanic Immigrants learn English and all about the Constitution and Bill of Rights----so that they couldn't be taken advantage of by these unscrupulous employers. Hey---America is a nation of Legal Immigrants for the better----but to maintain the integrity of this country, we need to make sure we are cohesive as Americans and learn the language, follow the laws and understand our unique Rights as Americans.
While I agree with most of what you say, I have one question: what is it with the obsession of having everyone learn English?
The USA is one of the only (developed) countries in the world that doesn't have everyone learn 2nd and 3rd languages. And they remain cohesive just fine. In fact, their workers are more competitive and desirable in the international setting as a result. After all, how do you think India got so much attention from our corporations? Had the majority of their population not known a 2nd language (English) then we wouldn't have outsourced to them like crazy and boosted their economy (at the cost of our own).
Sure, immigrants should learn English (it only makes sense) but why shouldn't we learn Spanish too (which also makes sense)? Is it just laziness on our part or a sense of entitlement that we don't feel the need to do that?
If you are for the Constitution and the rule of law, then you must support the enforcement of our illigration laws. That means illegal immigrants must be sent home.
A very good idea is for the illegals to take the rights expressed in our Constitution back to their own countries so all their people can be treated with respect.
this from the Houston Chronicle:
Immigration officials announced Thursday that a fingerprint-based system that screens for suspected illegal immigrants in local jails led to the identification of more than 111,000 people classified as “criminal aliens” in its first year.
The Secure Communities program, launched in October 2008 at the Harris County Jail, uses biometric technology to check the immigration history of all suspects booked into local lockups. The system is in place in 95 jurisdictions, including Brazoria, Fort Bend, Galveston, Jefferson and Montgomery counties.
The Houston Police Department plans to have the system in city jails by the end of the year, city officials said.
Secure Communities so far has proved less controversial than the federal 287(g) program, which trains local law enforcement to act as immigration agents. But immigrant advocates are still wary of the program, and have raised concerns that it has swept up somewhat minor offenders.
About 10 percent of the 111,000 so-called criminal aliens identified nationally through the program were classified as having convictions for “Level 1” offenses, the most serious crimes, according to ICE's data. More than 16,500 people identified through the program — including some 1,900 Level 1 offenders — have already been removed from the country, ICE reported.
I support all of that but there is still a huge problem: Many people don't want to admit that ALL illegal immigrants are law-breakers, and not just the ones who join gangs, commit theft, etc.
Nearly all illegals have phony documents, and I believe that document fraud is a felony. Besides, just being here illegally subjects them to deportation.
For the government to brag that it's deporting ciminal illegal immigrants while accepting the presence of millions of others as if they were not a problem is absurd and a slap in the face to Americans citizens and legal immigrants. All illegals should be sent home. There are legal and civilized ways to do this.
Besides-the govt. orders many illegal out but most of them don't leave the country. It's time to stop pretending that we are serious about our sovereignty and laws and follow through.
I am not Hispanic but I AM a left winger!
This is the USA way to ensure the indefinite security for slavery in our country.
If you prefer you may call it unindentured servitude.
Man I hate our fake ideals and fake Christianity!
Respect and equal rights for all!
I respect rights for all too, but whatever rights people have they are entitled to in their own countries. There is no right to be insomeone else's country illegally. All people have to do ot avoid being abused here is to stay home. They must put their energies and desires for better lives into improving their own countrys' systems.
I support a genuine temporary guest worker program in which there would be good pay, access to health care, decent housing, and respect for the work the temporary workers do. I am totally against illegal immigration on many levels, and I despise those employers who recruit, abuse, and profit from illegal labor all in the name of greed. All such employers should be prosecuted and do jail time-not just pay fines.
Some greedy employers violate our ideals-that doesn't mean these ideals are fake!
Illegals knowingly and willingly broke the law when they skipped the fence. That's why their called illegals. If illegals want to apply for welfare benefits, they should do so with the country they are citizens of. Busting into someone's home and then demanding dinner is absurd.
Actually it's the employers that pay them to work that really breaking the law. If there wasn't work they wouldn't come here. Mexico has national health care. They don't come here looking for a handout they come here for jobs. Jobs NAFTA was supposed to create in Mexico.
They're both breaking the law. It takes two to tango. By the way, I'm sure most Americans don't have illegal immigrants raising their kids. Don't conflate illegal immigrants and non-citizens, it's disingenuous.
It doesn't matter if there is work for them here. There is no excuse for tolerating illegal immigration.
I would have a genuine guest worker program for temporary ( six months per year) labor. It would be for Mexicans only, men only, and for agriculture only. The pay and treatment would be good, and the program would be highly regulated and monitored. That would satisy the growers. Above and beyond that, it is America, and its laws, that must be satisfied. Lets end illegal immigration by cracking down on both employers and illegals.
This is a nonissue, imo. The Democrats are in the process of reopening the amnesty debate, which means Latinos will have the option of health insurance, eventually. If Dems get their plan for amnesty passed, one thing will be for sure. This means sooner, rather than later, that Hispanics will become the majority voting bloc in America, and Hispanics will eventually replace all the crooks we presently have in DC, whom are playing politics with peoples' lives. Democrats actually believe they are securing the Hispanic voting bloc, with the offer of amnesty, but one day they will all look around and notice, that they all have been fired and replaced with Hispanic Americans. Imo, this serves them all right. The arrogance of the Dems, doesn't allow for them to see the forest for the trees.
"but one day they will all look around and notice, that they all have been fired and replaced with Hispanic Americans."
lol...live in fear much?
To me, it's never been a "HIspanic" issue. Most Hispanic-Americans are loyal Americans, and much like everyone else. There are two ways to do immigration: The right way and the wrong way. Obviously, we are doing it the wrong way.
The right way is to have reasonable immigration laws and quotas and enforce them without apology. Allowing you country to be overun with illrgal immigrants who will one day determinre your nation's destiny is national and cultural suicide.
If you bring people in at a reasonable rate and insist that they "jump through your legal hoops" and assimilate, etc., all of this would be a moot point.
I do believe that Democrats are waging demographic/amnesty warfare against Republicans. The whole country will become collateral damage.
Even the environmentalists who warn of overpopulation are against immigration control because of their opposition to the right in this country.
Politicians that push for so-called immigration reform (which included Bush by the way) aren't pandering to the hispanic vote, they are trying to secure a low paid work force for the businesses that will benefit the most by passing amensty, temporary visas and permits (or turning a blind eye to the problem because existing laws aren't enforced).
They don't care any more about the hispanic vote than they do the vote of any poor segment of this country. They know they can lobby their way to prosperity without our votes. Stirring up this fear in the health care debate does one thing: It removes the responsibility of the employer from providing any health care costs for their employees if they are illegal. What it doesn't address is the fact that 12 million uninsured individuals residing in the US will allow health care providers to further increase their prices to counter the losses created by those uninsured.
You are being played by a couple of industries that stand to profit from your misplaced fears.
I love it - there is hope then LOL.
My grandfather came to America from Italy. He had to have a sponsor and a job waiting for him. He HAD TO LEARN ENGLISH. There were no hand-outs waiting for him at the statue of liberty. He was proud and willing to change for his new country. Why do the latinos expect America to give them free handouts? Really what do you really offer our country other than over crowding our jails and being a weight on our services.
They pick your farm crops, they butcher and care for your livestock, they take care of your children and clean your homes and businesses, they work in unregulated industries for a portion of what citizens expect, they mow your lawns and clean your pools, etc.. Mexicans and other hispanic immigrants don't come here looking for free health care, most of their countries provide national health care. They come here to do a more than honest days work for less than an honest wage.
And thereby ensuring the lack of jobs for the American people at an honest wage.
They can apply to enter the country legally, like everybody else.
They were given amnesty once. Their response was to take it as invitation to continue to break our laws.
ENOUGH with the every-illegal-immigrant-is-an-honest-victim nonsense.
1. there is no such thing a latino culture.
2. immigrants do get medicaid, but have to be here for 5 years. Illegals don't.
3. as much as I support their cause to survive when their own country makes no effort to raise the quality of life or protect them from kaos in their country, tax payers should not have to pick up their medical bills.
4. They can pay for a doctors visit. They can go to free clinics or be seen at hospitals. They just have to save up and pay for coming in illegally period.
5. Their country should be forced to pay the USA to make up for the emergency room bills.
2 things stand out about your article. First, let me say that it was good and informative and I agree with most every bit of it. However, there are those 2 things...
1. The bill that Joe Wilson was talking about did in fact have a "no illegal immigrants" provision. The current House bill that did pass, was NOT that bill. It's a totally different number and totally different bill than the one that Wilson and the Republicans were making up all of the lies about.
2. Mexico has a first-world healthcare system with a first-world national healthcare system with a first-world public option/single payer. I think it's something like $65 USD for a full years worth of coverage? I can clarify that tomorrow as my best friends wife is still a resident of Mexico and almost all of her family still lives there. So, why would people from Mexico, for example, want to come to the third-world United States with an archaic third-world healthcare system that kills more than it heals and provides coverage to even less?
Because they can't find work in their own country. And they come here illegally many times because their country is so corrupt that to obtain a legal visa is many times more expensive than paying a coyote (which is not cheap). That is the true immigration reform that should be addressed between our two countries.
We don't have to consult Mexico or illegal immigrants for decision-making on our immigration law. I don't care how expensive it is to obtain a legal visa: nobody has the RIGHT to immigrate to the U.S.
Undocumented Mexican workers are here because of NAFTA. US multinational run 80% of Mexico's foreign investments. Mexican farmers were destroyed by the competitiveness of US producers.
So we either get out of Mexico completely and let the Cubans help restructure Mexican society in the way of Venezuela or we avoid the disaster of a Leftist Mexico by focusing on fully integrating Mexico and Canada into a North American Union.
The world is going multi-polar at blitz speed. We either adapt or will end of as a second tier 70 year empire in history.
We either write our history or someone else will write it for us.
Spot on!
The only hope for the average Mexican is a "Leftist" Mexico. They've been ruled by a right wing aristocracy for years, which is why they have a lower standard of living.
And why were the illegal workers here before NAFTA? When a 1986 amnesty was granted?
Good point!
The best way to write our own history is to control our own borders and sovereignty.
People forget that our legal immigration policies are the most generous in the world. There is no need to accept or tolerate illegal immigration.
Those who believe that open borders are unavoidable are one-worlders whether they realize it or not.
Wanda Sykes had a great line about wanting to cover Immigrants under Healthcare Bill
"Those are the people you REALLY want covered, ......you know the people who cook your food."
I'm all for the humanitarian side of this. I won't even point out that being in Mexico illegally is prison time or that an American basically cant own property there or get free healthcare there..
We are having a heck of job just trying to get healthcare for Americans. I'm all for single payer. BUT before we can get to being more generous.. we will need to get to single payer and balance our trade deficts and rebuild our infrastructure.
By the way we treat 20% of our patients for free at our cancer centers and its taking us under. Has anyone seen an insurance company give out free insurane cards or not cut off a patients coverage if they miss a payment because they are sick and cant work after years of paying
Regards
Mexico must show good faith and facilitate Americans to retire and own property in Mexico. If we want a North American family to take on the emerging Asian economic behemoth, the European Union and Merco Sur in LatAm we need to dramatically increase the number of Americans living in Mexico pronto. Americans should have property rights of Mexicans.
This is a win win for all. An American couple can have an upper middle class retirement in Mexico for $2000 a month and Mexico will benefit economically and socially.
Mexico, its your move.
You are right on the mark with this Mr Cubias! Thank you!!!
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