Backward and Forward
There's a piece in the Times this morning about the so-called bind that Attorney General Eric Holder finds himself in about whether to investigate the interrogation methods of terrorist suspects after 9/11 in order to determine if some of these methods constituted crimes. On the one hand, the piece says, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that crimes were committed. Holder himself supported the release of documents earlier this year that showed that the Bush administration had authorized "head-slapping, wall-slamming, and waterboarding." On the other hand, an investigation -- even a narrow one, aimed at lower-level CIA personnel -- might develop into a full-blown inquiry that reaches to the top of the Bush White House and creates what President Obama has said he wants to avoid: a "backward-looking" distraction.
But President Obama has also said flatly that "criminal acts should be prosecuted." So I'm sorry, but there really is no bind except the one created by a political agenda. If the means that are used to accomplish the president's ends, no matter how worthy, consist partly of ignoring criminal acts, his accomplishments will be automatically less worthy. In fact, in order to elect this president in the first place, millions of Americans had to take a "backward look" at our nation's and often their own racial attitudes and history, come to terms with them, and then move forward to transcend them. With regard to the possibly -- no, probably -- heinous acts committed in terrorist interrogations by the Bush administration, there is similarly no really moving forward possible without looking backward first. So do your job, Mr. Holder. This is exactly what I'm paying you for.
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"In fact, in order to elect this president in the first place, millions of Americans had to take a "backward look" at our nation's and often their own racial attitudes and history, come to terms with them, and then move forward to transcend them."
I didn't have to take a "backward look" because of my racial attitudes. It was clear to me from the beginning, and in spite of the rhetoric that this man is a leftist, with more than enough racial baggage to go around, as exhibited in last night's press conference. My decision not to vote for him was not based on his color, but rather a combination of his obvious radical racial associations, and his extreme leftist proclivities.
"but there really is no bind except the one created by a political agenda. If the means that are used to accomplish the president's ends, no matter how worthy, consist partly of ignoring criminal acts, his accomplishments will be automatically less worthy"
There's really nowhere for him look as politician, except forward; so far, he's done nothing that could be considered worthy (for the good of the Republic), and he's right on target to replace Jimmy Carter as THE worst President of ALL time. In 3 1/2 years, he can take a "backward look" at that...
Nothing will be done. It's all smoke and mirrors.
"Holder himself supported the release of documents earlier this year that showed that the Bush administration had authorized 'head-slapping, wall-slamming, and waterboarding.'"
Next, we will take our politicians out of their required duties and use taxpayer dollars to investigate whether or not some high official used an offensive "Yo Mama" joke.
In looking backward, let us look at 2001-2008 in retrospect of the rest of history. "Head Slapping"? really?
If we are truly concerned with a little "head slapping", we are a pathetic nation that deserves its demise.
Let's not let our uneducated, civilian minds think for one second that we know all and have it all covered when it comes to politics and international affairs. A little spanking never did anyone any harm.
Saddam Hussein. Now, what shall we say of that man's tactics. Oh, yes. His country. Should have left him be...
These weren't parents spanking their children.
These were adults manhandling other humans in their custody, contrary to law.
They beat and tortured and humiliated people who had not been convicted of any crime. Some of those people were certainly innocent. We don't know who was guilty.
We're a nation of laws. We must follow them, whether we're afraid of terrorists or not.
Prosecute, Holder.
A little head slapping,a little waterboarding,a little sleep deprivation,and at least 100 deaths to
those held in our custody.Its amazing how many people are willing to let murder get swept under
the rug,and have no shame in letting the people responsible openly ignore the treaties that that
our country has signed.Sadly Holder and Obama are among them.
Bush sworn into office Jan. 20, 2001.
On Bush/ Cheney watch - 9/11/2001 occured 8 months into their term.
War in Iraq and Afghanistan- $13,000,000,000.00 every month since 2003!
5,000 + dead service men and women.
$5 TRILLION added to the deficet.
Collapse of World economies, because of de-regulation and no-regulation in Wall St and Banking. Manufacturing completely dissapearing, gone to Asia.
Border wide open.
Bush failed miserably and should be held accountable.
Absolutely prosecute Bush and Cheney to the fullest extent of American law, and then some. These two criminals are laughing all the way to the bank everyday knowing that "your" son or daughter died for them to make 10's of $Millions of payoff dollars to start these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. All the while, neither they or their children served a day in any service, and never will. They only work for Profit!
One of the legal hurdles the Obama Administration faces is what the Republican controlled congress and President Bush did in September 2006 - changing the War Crimes Act in 2006, and Bush signing signing it into law a month later. All of it made prosecutions of individuals involved in interrogations more difficult. Instead, a commission empowered by Congress has authority to compel witnesses to testify and even to grant immunity in exchange for information. The new law immunized CIA personnel for past abuses. As Sen. Feingold said, "We will look back on this day as a stain on our nation’s history." Thousands of people were involved in illegal activities but when you think about it, Bush never pardoned them before he left office too. So there you go.
Remember, Obama is next in line to be investigated. AIG, ACORN, GM, Goldman, etc etc. Let the fun begin!
Investigating a sitting President. Hardly. But I'm all for investigating a past Vice President, past President, past Attorney Generals and past White House Chief of Staffs among others. That ought to keep Holder and Congress busy for another eight years.
Holder fiddles while his Department of Justice burns to a cinder. His navel-gazing gives new meaning to the words, "Oath of office." Holder isn't weighing anything. He's actively "NOT DECIDING." If anyone thought that the politicization of the DOJ would end with the Ashcroft/Gonzales/Mukasey three-ringed circus, look at what Holder is doing. Another poster was right on the money: high government officials are immune from investigation and prosecution. Obama is perpetuating this travesty with gusto by directing Holder to make political decisions in the execution of his job. Of all of the letdowns possible after the inauguration, Holder's loss of a moral compass and the abdication of his oath of office is one of the worst.
The nation has truly become the home of mass murderers, torturers, liars, thieves, and profiteering corporations. Look at what's happening to Health Care Reform. 50 million people have no health insurance, and now, even Democrats are running away from the nations mission statement, the Preamble, which says that we are to "promote the general welfare." No one wants to stand up to monied interests. No one. Obama's words are hollow, just as the Democratic Party's platforms and mission statements are hollow. Whoever pays, plays. There will never be campaign finance reform because lobbyists will dish out ever more money to prevent it. Care to differ? Well, "watch and learn."
I agree. Rahm Emanuel should butt out and stop undermining the independence of the DOJ. According to Newsweek, Emanuel has been pressuring Holder to thwart any investigation because of perceived political repercussions.
When Obama says he wants to look forward, not backward, how convenient for him politically.
Ignoring crimes is moving backward. The pursuit of justice is moving forward.
Not only were people tortured, but it was done to get people to lie to sell an illegal war to the American people. Torture doesn't work if you are trying to get accurate information. But, if you are trying to get someone to say what you want them to say, torture does work. They will say anything to get them to stop.
So, torture did work. It got people to lie so then U.S. officials could take those lies to the world to justify an otherwise unjustifiable war.
Torture wasn't something that the interrogators were asking for. It came down from the top. Real interrogators are opposed to torture. They have more subtle techniques for getting people to talk. Techniques that get accurate information. They don't like torture because it produces inaccurate information.
The truth must come out. People don't want to see how evil their government is. They want to believe that the U.S. is good and pure. The rest of the world knows how evil the U.S. government is. Now, the American people need to know.
Please investigate and bring charges.
Are you all Muslim terrorists? Who cares about waterboarding? Are you even Americans? Bush did his job - let's worry and the Obamaites and their apology tour mentality. Grow up, people.
Hey Bud, your missing FOX TV. They are airing the story of the two Headed Jesus who lived with Dinosaurs as non-fiction. Right up your alley.
Investigate. Bring charges. Then, they will try to raise a national security defense to their crimes if anyone will buy that.
But do not bring up their "defense" before an investigation is done or charges are brought. That is not how criminal cases work. That is not how our criminal justice system works.
If they have some valid defense, they can bring it up at trial and see if the jury buys it. That's what every other criminal defendant has to do. You either take a plea or you roll the dice and see if the jury will buy your defense.
But, these are powerful people, not like most criminal defendants, who are poor and powerless. That is the only reason these guys get to bring up their "defense" ahead of time and keep charges from being brought.
There still seems to some confusion within Americans about what actually happened. You see comments like "what is little water poured on their face compared to chopping heads" and even in this article appear words like probably and possibly. Maybe the information flow in USA is controlled or maybe people are just lazy or don´t give a f..k. The use of torture and detention without trial or evidence was a widespread practise. Lots of captives were injured and many even died(or are simply "missing"). You can find the evidence coming from many respected human rights organizations and journalists. This is a hard-core issue, or at least it is among people who care about human rights and who think that international law is an important part of the global "game". Was it easy to over-react after 9/11? Absolutely, but there are activities in which a modern democracy can´t get into without losing credibility and respect. The rest of the world does not make a difference between similar atrocities, whether they are committed by Libya, Israel, North Korea,Taleban or the USA. Investigate and prosecute!
Your position is that the U.S. government engaged in widespread torture under Bush? How absurd. It's clear that you know nothing of the actual policies and actions of the administration. First separate many of the harsh techniques from torture - sleep deprivation, slapping, wall slam, hooding, etc, from waterboarding. Then know that even these harsh techniques were used by both the DOD and CIA on a small number of captives (worst case is hundreds of them). While I understand that this may be abhorrent to you and others, it is simply not correct to use the term "widespread". As well, the record is there for all to see if you are interested. Finally, the Bush administration claims plausible legal support for its actions - again, you might not agree, but there are legitimate arguments about the Commander in Chief's powers to make war and Congress's authority to limit them. We've had so many hearings and reports already, but to now criminalize the actions of the previous administration is a dangerous step.
It is clear that our information sources tell very different stories. The word "widespread" is in my opinion suitable when you include all the stuff that happened in extraordinary rendition "blacksites" around the world, the "outsourcing" to other countries and the abuses in military facilities such as Abu Graib and Bagram. The "few bad apples" explanation does not quite compute. Orders were given and policy was formulated by the scapegoats superiors. And you don´t have to criminalize their actions retrospectively, they were absolutely illegal (binding treaties,customary international law and even the domestic US law state this clearly). These are not crazy conspiracy theories, though I do understand of course that prosecutions of such powerful people may seem like an inconvenient idea for many.
It is much more dangerous to set precedents to future leaders that the crimes that
include war crimes can be done with no cosequences.
Grow up. Real people don't care. These people cut off heads and stone women for smiling. Grow some testicles. Palin in 2012.
Second!
Somebody remind Mr. Holder that we are a nation of laws. If you break those laws you must be held accountable. MUST.
OMG! Head slapping, wall slamming and waterboarding to a group of lovers who would cut your head off with their bare hands , given the chance and a sharp enough knife.
You people are a riot. And you sit there and wonder why the Christ Child is sinking in the polls. Keep it up, but ask yourself why it is the Obama is not as eager as you people are to address this issue. Think about, and if you already have, think about it some more.
What part of "nation of laws" do you not understand?
Someone needs a hug.
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