Clinton Fails To Deliver Much Needed KO In Texas Debate
Tonight's debate might have been the first in the entire month of February. But it was far more obvious while watching the debate that this was the 19th confrontation between the Democratic candidates. The discussion seemed often dispirited and many of the arguments have been aired many times before. Hillary Clinton needed a knockout performance tonight to recapture momentum and, while both had some strong moments, neither candidate scored a major point. And that alone gives the win to Barack Obama.
Hillary Clinton's moving last answer was as powerful a moment as she has gotten in these debates -- and it perfectly summarized tonight's dynamics. Asked what her most defining crisis has been, Clinton explained that she had long realize she was blessed and cited people she had met on the trail that were facing true crisis. "No matter what happens in this contest, and I am honored to be here with Barack Obama..." she said, at which point the two candidates shook hands in what seemed to be a very genuine moment, "I am absolutely honored. Whatever happens, we're going to be fine. We have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people. And that's what this election should be about."
This answer drew a standing ovation, and it was indeed delivered very powerfully and could very well help her win votes. But it seemed to have been delivered as a farewell, an attempt to exit the campaign on an emotional high and stay in the hearts of Democratic voters. And she seemed to be driven by this very motivation throughout the debate, to demonstrate that she cared about the problems of the American people beyond this presidential race.
In response to the previous question -- whether she thought superdelegates should intervene -- Clinton had answered that she believed it would just sort itself out and that the entire party would unify behind its nominee. Clinton must realize that for her to win the nomination would take more than "sorting itself out," and her vague talk of "the nominee" also sounded like a defeatist approach. Or, at least, that was Clinton's statement that she will not try to win this with superdelegates, and that she will not press her case if she is clearly behind in pledged delegates. What weeks of contests did not get us (the assurance that this thing will be decided before the convention), Clinton's responses might have provided.
Taken together, those two responses and calls for unity made for a powerful finale for Clinton, but they were not necessarily what she needed to reverse her declining fortunes. And they apparently represent a defeat for those in Clinton's campaign (like Penn) who were pressing for a much more brutal confrontation.
Earlier in the debate, Clinton was directly asked to address her criticism of Obama's campaign that he had plagiarized speeches given by MA's Governor Patrick. Clinton did go through the motions of a response, attacking Obama again with one of tonight's lines that will find itself the most quoted -- "it's not change you can believe in its change you can Xerox" -- but it simply did not look to me that she was into her own response, nor that she was comfortable continuing to attack Obama long those lines, putting together a series of sentences rather than a coherent stream.
She did venture a "I have to admit I was somewhat amused the other night when one of Senator Obama's supporters was asked to name an accomplishment, and he couldn't," but barely tried to put that moment or the Patrick controversy in a broader perspective, nor she did not take the moderators' cue to argue why Obama lacked the experience to be commander-in-chief. This was the debate where Clinton needed to go strongly after Obama and tried to get him to trip up, either finally making a successful case for why she is more of a fighter than he is or by showing some sort of inconsistency in one of his positions.
The debate did get heat up when the discussion went to health care. The moderators inexplicably tried to move on repeatedly (even putting in a commercial break) but Hillary Clinton kept insisting that this be talked about. "This is personal to me," she exclaimed pleading with Campbell Brown to let them continue talking about health care. Quoting John Edwards to which she referred twice in this segment (realizing that health care is probably the main reason he has not endorsed Obama as of now), she defended the idea of a mandate and blamed Obama for not insuring anyone.
In response, Obama used his usual arguments that people who don't have health care cannot afford it and fining them won't help, missing the basic point that the criticism of his plan is not just that not everyone will be insured but that many people who can afford it will choose to free ride. But this entire health care discussion has been aired before, including in previous debates, and the two candidates used the same arguments -- and often the same lines. It might have been personal for Clinton, but none of this was new, testifying to why it is so difficult for her now to change the fundamental dynamics of the race.
In fact -- and as is often the case -- Clinton had some of her best lines and strongest attacks against President Bush and the Republican Party, making the audience cheer over and over again as she attacked them for overspending or for mismanaging the economy. And Obama followed suit more than he usually does, but he had John McCain in mind more than Bush, as he referenced McCain's call to stay in Iraq for a 100 years, in a preview of the general election.
Throughout the debate, Barack Obama stayed very strong. He has grown much better in this exercise in the past year and that improvement was obvious in how much better he is now in giving nuanced answers -- even some that go back on past statements -- and doing so very smoothly. That was obvious in the discussion the candidates had over whether they would meet with Raul Castro when they take office. The discussion over health care also showed off Obama's increased strength, as the difference in mastery of policy was less obvious this time than in previous debates (largely due to how many times this same discussion has taken place now, in almost identical words).
Another very strong answer on Obama's part came when pressed to defend himself against criticism that he was all talk and had little substance to back it up, as he derided the suggestion: "The implication has been that the people who have been voting for me or involved in my campaign are somehow delusional... The thinking is that somehow they're being duped...and that eventually they're going to see the reality of things." This is also an answer he has had time to prepare, as this issue has been on the table for a long time now, but his answer was particularly well crafted and seemed to take some of the urge to press on that Clinton had left out of her. And keep in mind that Obama did not even need to be strong tonight; he just needed to not stumble to preserve his delegate lead.
The edge in the debate has to be given to Obama. But the story tonight was Hillary Clinton, and her quasi-acknowledgment of the high odds she faces.
Tonight's debate might have been the first in the entire month of February. But it was far more obvious while watching the debate that this was the 19th confrontation between the Democratic candidates. The discussion seemed often dispirited and many of the arguments have been aired many times before. Hillary Clinton needed a knockout performance tonight to recapture momentum and, while both had some strong moments, neither candidate scored a major point. And that alone gives the win to Barack Obama.
Hillary Clinton's moving last answer was as powerful a moment as she has gotten in these debates -- and it perfectly summarized tonight's dynamics. Asked what her most defining crisis has been, Clinton explained that she had long realize she was blessed and cited people she had met on the trail that were facing true crisis. "No matter what happens in this contest, and I am honored to be here with Barack Obama..." she said, at which point the two candidates shook hands in what seemed to be a very genuine moment, "I am absolutely honored. Whatever happens, we're going to be fine. We have strong support from our families and our friends. I just hope that we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people. And that's what this election should be about."
This answer drew a standing ovation, and it was indeed delivered very powerfully and could very well help her win votes. But it seemed to have been delivered as a farewell, an attempt to exit the campaign on an emotional high and stay in the hearts of Democratic voters. And she seemed to be driven by this very motivation throughout the debate, to demonstrate that she cared about the problems of the American people beyond this presidential race.
In response to the previous question -- whether she thought superdelegates should intervene -- Clinton had answered that she believed it would just sort itself out and that the entire party would unify behind its nominee. Clinton must realize that for her to win the nomination would take more than "sorting itself out," and her vague talk of "the nominee" also sounded like a defeatist approach. Or, at least, that was Clinton's statement that she will not try to win this with superdelegates, and that she will not press her case if she is clearly behind in pledged delegates. What weeks of contests did not get us (the assurance that this thing will be decided before the convention), Clinton's responses might have provided.
Taken together, those two responses and calls for unity made for a powerful finale for Clinton, but they were not necessarily what she needed to reverse her declining fortunes. And they apparently represent a defeat for those in Clinton's campaign (like Penn) who were pressing for a much more brutal confrontation.
Earlier in the debate, Clinton was directly asked to address her criticism of Obama's campaign that he had plagiarized speeches given by MA's Governor Patrick. Clinton did go through the motions of a response, attacking Obama again with one of tonight's lines that will find itself the most quoted -- "it's not change you can believe in its change you can Xerox" -- but it simply did not look to me that she was into her own response, nor that she was comfortable continuing to attack Obama long those lines, putting together a series of sentences rather than a coherent stream.
She did venture a "I have to admit I was somewhat amused the other night when one of Senator Obama's supporters was asked to name an accomplishment, and he couldn't," but barely tried to put that moment or the Patrick controversy in a broader perspective, nor she did not take the moderators' cue to argue why Obama lacked the experience to be commander-in-chief. This was the debate where Clinton needed to go strongly after Obama and tried to get him to trip up, either finally making a successful case for why she is more of a fighter than he is or by showing some sort of inconsistency in one of his positions.
The debate did get heat up when the discussion went to health care. The moderators inexplicably tried to move on repeatedly (even putting in a commercial break) but Hillary Clinton kept insisting that this be talked about. "This is personal to me," she exclaimed pleading with Campbell Brown to let them continue talking about health care. Quoting John Edwards to which she referred twice in this segment (realizing that health care is probably the main reason he has not endorsed Obama as of now), she defended the idea of a mandate and blamed Obama for not insuring anyone.
In response, Obama used his usual arguments that people who don't have health care cannot afford it and fining them won't help, missing the basic point that the criticism of his plan is not just that not everyone will be insured but that many people who can afford it will choose to free ride. But this entire health care discussion has been aired before, including in previous debates, and the two candidates used the same arguments -- and often the same lines. It might have been personal for Clinton, but none of this was new, testifying to why it is so difficult for her now to change the fundamental dynamics of the race.
In fact -- and as is often the case -- Clinton had some of her best lines and strongest attacks against President Bush and the Republican Party, making the audience cheer over and over again as she attacked them for overspending or for mismanaging the economy. And Obama followed suit more than he usually does, but he had John McCain in mind more than Bush, as he referenced McCain's call to stay in Iraq for a 100 years, in a preview of the general election.
Throughout the debate, Barack Obama stayed very strong. He has grown much better in this exercise in the past year and that improvement was obvious in how much better he is now in giving nuanced answers -- even some that go back on past statements -- and doing so very smoothly. That was obvious in the discussion the candidates had over whether they would meet with Raul Castro when they take office. The discussion over health care also showed off Obama's increased strength, as the difference in mastery of policy was less obvious this time than in previous debates (largely due to how many times this same discussion has taken place now, in almost identical words).
Another very strong answer on Obama's part came when pressed to defend himself against criticism that he was all talk and had little substance to back it up, as he derided the suggestion: "The implication has been that the people who have been voting for me or involved in my campaign are somehow delusional... The thinking is that somehow they're being duped...and that eventually they're going to see the reality of things." This is also an answer he has had time to prepare, as this issue has been on the table for a long time now, but his answer was particularly well crafted and seemed to take some of the urge to press on that Clinton had left out of her. And keep in mind that Obama did not even need to be strong tonight; he just needed to not stumble to preserve his delegate lead.
The edge in the debate has to be given to Obama. But the story tonight was Hillary Clinton, and her quasi-acknowledgment of the high odds she faces.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-vogel/the-clinton-meltdown_b_88211.html
The democrats who will vote in November do not vote in caucuses. Except this November, they might not vote or vote Republican. These caucus states do not represent the main body of democrats.
So many voters are getting left out - I think we need a new Voting Rights Act.
Obama is playing poker. He is pretending to have a winning hand when he doesn't. He can only bluff so long.
This is our country. We are patriotic for our country. This is not a game.
I don't think Obama wants or will get his hands dirty.
We are the ones who really need Hillary.
This year - The Best Man For The Job Is The Woman.
What? No.
An honest question :
Did Clinton's last comment really get a standing ovation as has been oft reported or was that just the end of the debate and the audience stood to pay respects to both candidates.
We, of course, could not see behind the cameras... and CNN did a terrible job with many things i.e.)debate flow, gale force winds on stage...
As for the standing ovation Clinton is purported to have received... although her last comment was her most positive... it looked to me as if the audience was cued behind camera that this was the end of the debate and that they paid respects to both candidates.
It looked like an ovation to me.
how can she possibly deliver a "KO" when Obama has said that the "fighting" is below him? I mean she is basically fighting with her hands tied behind her back as some people has said.
I can respect her "moment" as being genuine. But it sure doesn't change my vote. If she still picks up today where she left off before the debate - on the moral low road - and is mum on the 527 crew, etc., then we'll know conclusively she is truly the wrong choice.
The thing that rings hollow about her closing words (as has been documented elsewhere) is the Edwards used them on Dec 13, 07, and that her husband used them as well.
What with her Xerox quip, it's hard to take her seriously. I just see tricks and spin all the crap that everyone has had ENOUGH of.
I am sure this is not an original thought, but it occurred to me this morning that Obama is appealing to people who do not want politics as usual. And, despite her claims (rhetoric?) to the opposite, that is exactly how Hillary (and her husband) are perceived. Their subtle attacks and misspeaks don't help. Nor does changing the rules in mid-stream >FL and MI delegates. This is the same old stuff.
Even MORE ironic, is the 'disenfranchised' speak of FL and MI voters, and her support of Super Delegates disenfranchising (!!) the rest of us and voting their 'conscience', and not supporting the popular vote getter. This elitism smack of the same ole game .. ..
A standing ovation.....Hillary moved us to stand and applaud. That never happens in debates. Hillary hit just the right chords and wowed us with her knowledge, her acumen and her grace. The world is falling apart with war, AIDS, famine and global climate change going to destroy commercial fishing and the world economy..... I was feeling a lot of despair. After watching Hillary, I feel hopeful again. She really sees the problems and she really has the wisdom and the experience to turn this disaster around.
lol
You should probably know if you don't already: In the first half of the debate, Clinton again attacked Obama for using inspirational words that were not his own.
At the end of the debate, in her finest moment, Clinton used words to inspire that were not her own. They were borrowed (plagiarized if you want to use Hillary's word) from John Edwards.
There's no doubt the words were inspiring - I felt it too, and I clapped for both of them in my livingroom. But you should realize that Obama has been a fountain of inspiring moments and words. And Hillary's one shining moment wasn't even her own.
As a long-time anti-war Vietnam Veteran, I will point out to you that New York Senator You-Know-Her cravenly -- meaning out of fear of what mean Republicans would call her -- allowed Deputy Dubya Bush to browbeat her into giving him the go-ahead to launch an invasion and occupation of a country -- if not two of them -- that never attacked or threatened to attack America. Much of this "falling apart from war" that you claim concerns you has happened because You-Know-Her helped start two needless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I never heard, or read of, You-Know-Her uttering a peep of protest to try and stop any of this madness. Incredibly, She has even voted to authorize ANOTHER Presidential attack on a non-belligerent nation: this time, Iran. She calls this sort of reflexive war-agitating "diplomacy."
With this in mind, therefore, the discussion in America today should not revolve around how to reward You-Know-Her's cowardice and calculation with yet another failing-upwards promotion, but how hard to kick her dumb ass and with how large a boot. The same goes for any of her "men" colleagues in Congress who acted more like castrated capons than "hawks" -- chicken, "liberal," "conservative," or any other kind. Bird brains, the lot of them.
.
Hillary's closing argument was powerful while Obama's was routine. What's more, he was clearly doodling during some of the high points, when she was retelling Americans' stories. Those are the moments when he should be listening earnestly, not just out of respect for Hillary (which he seems to have a hard time summoning) but for the Americans being described. (The doodling is particularly noticeable because, having concluded already, there's no reason for him to be taking notes!). I hope he gets some coaching to up his listening skills (or appearance thereof)
Hillary won't withdraw. Today, she's continuing to call for the Michigan and Florida delegates to be seated at the convention. Her final remark was about nothing more than scoring political points. She is not sincere. She is not concerned about the democratic party. She wants to win.
Obama handled himself very well. None of Hillary's accusations stuck to him. He took the high road, and he gives honest answers.
Obama 2008
The best thing Hillary could do in the interest of the party is to withdraw. Senator Obama is the best candidate and will be President. We need to focus on beating McCain and all the ugly Republican's slime machines.
You have to look no farther than the way Hillary has managed her campaign, to see how she would manage this country. Her health care debacle was conducted with arrogance and secrecy even when she was told by Democrats in the Senate and House that this was not the way to go in winning the health care inititive. Google Rep Cooper of TN for enlightment of her "my way or the highway" approach.
I would agree that she seemed to be saying that she now knows that this is not her time except for one thing:
I want all your readers to be aware of the 527 now being set up by large donors of hers to offset Obama's huge donor contributions. This doesn't seem to me that she is giving up.
Someone should call off the up and coming debate and say enough is enough !!
60 some delegate difference my friend. not over yet.
and over 15 states yet to vote. This is a long way from over. Hillary will not quit. We democrats were just sick when Gore conceded in 2000, and when Kerry gave up in 2004. Hillary is a fighter and she will not concede and will not give up. We love that in her. Go Hillary
150 delegates is the difference- she must win Ohio AND Texas by over 20% to stay in this- it is over...I'm sorry. I'm on Obama supporter and I've become really invested in this campaign- I understand that when the time comes, you will feel discouraged. But I can assure you- I've done my research, I've seen the impact Senator Obama's campaign has had from everywhere to New York to Maryland to Wisconsin- democrats, we can still take this thing. When Hillary decides to concede (assuming nothing happens between now and March 4th to drastically change the dynamics of this race)-know that there is still a lot to be excited about. Know that we will still have a democrat in the whitehouse- when the time comes we must unite. In the meantime, best of luck to you- I look forward to joining forces regardless of the outcome.
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