Hagee's Heresy

After endorsing John McCain, Texas pastor John Hagee has come under a bit of criticism for some of his comments about Catholics (and for generally being a dangerous war-whooping nutjob). But among some fundamentalist Christians, the real problem with Hagee is comments he may have made about Jews. What could be more offensive than calling someone's church a "great whore"? Well if you can believe this, Hagee might actually have said that Jews -- if there are any little ones reading this you might want to cover their eyes for their own protection -- can go to heaven.

Appalling, right? Don't worry. Hagee denies it. But still, the murmurs persist in the darkest reaches of the church that John Hagee might be dangerously soft on sending the Jewish people to eternal damnation.

The rumor began in earnest two years ago when a columnist for the Jerusalem Post, writing about the launch of Hagee's Christian Zionist organization, reported that Hagee believes in something known as dual covenant theology: "that the Jewish people has a special relationship to God through the revelation at Sinai and therefore does not need 'to go through Christ or the Cross' to get to heaven." More alarming to conservative evangelicals, the writer added that Jerry Falwell had signed on to this too. (The blog Bartholomew's Notes on Religion had a thorough round-up at the time.) Remember back in October when Ann Coulter pissed some people off by saying that Christians want Jews to be "perfected"? In her attempt to defend herself, Coulter said that she, like all Christians, including "Falwell himself," believe that Jews go to heaven. In fact, most Christians do not believe anything of the sort, and as I wrote at the time, Coulter's ignorance about something so basic just might indicate that she's not quite the devout Christian she's recently been posing as.

Falwell convincingly repudiated the Jerusalem Post, but Hagee's denials were more vague. Which is why you can still find ministry web sites accusing him of "spiritual correctness" and condemning him for refusing to target Jews for conversion at "Night to Honor Israel" gatherings. Hagee's writings on Jews have been parsed within an inch of their lives. Other teachings of his have been equally scrutinized and found wanting.

So what impact will any of this have on the presidential race? Some fundamentalists turned on Huckabee when Hagee embraced him back in December, but these folks were never going to vote for McCain anyway. If you actually clicked any of those links, you could pretty much tell that these folks are the lunatic fringe of evangelicalism. Hagee, you might say, is in the lunatic center. And McCain hopes that his endorsement will carry weight with the non-lunatic majority. If he knew about Hagee's anti-Catholic views, he may have assumed, with some justification, that they are, if not a plus, not exactly a minus either for most evangelicals. The Dual Covenant issue, however, may catch him by surprise.

Comments

[happytrails]

Ah, yes. And who is going to answer that pressing question, "How any seraphim can dance on the head of a pin?" This is an important question and the major religions of the world should call an ecumenical committee to work on this.

[mbh210]

As far as Pastor Hagee goes, people in San Antonio (home of Cornerstone Church) are divided into those who go to his church and those who think he is one of the most dangerous nutjobs in America today. Considering he wants to start World War III to bring about the Second Coming (as though Jesus needs his help with that), an endorsement by him should render any candidate unelectable.

[Boobaloo]

Thank goodness White American Men know exactly who is going to heaven and who is going to hell.

I can sleep better at night.

So can God since He has Hagee,Dobson & Robertson doing his administrative work for Him on earth.

So lets do the math, all White American Evangelicals and all White European Jews will go to heaven, other 6 billion going to hell.

There's something vaguely familiar about this ... didn't some group before the Zionists come up with the same scenerio?

Oh yes, that's right, the Aryan Nations.

[Mariel]

Actually twelve doors, RBenjamin. One for each of the twelve tribes. And another secret is that the English speaking people are all secretly, and even unknown to themselves, members of one of the twelve tribes. There are secrets within secrets. We in America are "Ephraim", descended from one of Joseph's children. But most of us are not making it through the Ephraim door because we have not accepted and followed Jesus. Do I take this seriously? I take it as a possibility about which we can as yet know almost nothing.

[John]

"I take it as a possibility about which we can as yet know almost nothing."

And while you're at it, using the same religious nutbag logic, you might as well take it as a possibility that invisible gorillas are sitting on your roof, guarding your house. We can never know for sure whether this is the case or not. So, like leprechauns, angels, voodoo, and soul-saving messiahs, why not just believe it?

It is easy to see how this country could elect a corrupt, myopic bumpkin for a President, twice. The bulk of the population is hopelessly and irretrievably stupid.

[JimReed]

It is easier to see the mistakes of others than it is your own.

[writeaway]

Southern Baptist Theology says that God and Jesus Christ are one and the same since there can't be two Gods. That being the case,if you believe in God, then it would seem to follow that you also believe in Jesus since they are one and the same.

[fourex]

"... But among some fundamentalist Christians, the real problem with Hagee is comments he may have made about Jews."

And yet one of his biggest supporters is Joe Lieberman, who called Hagee a new Moses.

[Johnz52]

Radosh's article sets the premise that somehow it is all right to demonize Catholics, but it is untirely acceptable to say anything negative regarding Jews. This is the same mindset that demands world recognition that the events of WWII affecting Jews was worse than any other incident in the entire history of mankind. Over 12 million Chinese civilians were murdered by the Japanese during WWII. Native Americans, Cambodians, Irish, Africans and Armenains have all experienced Holocausts of their own. The crime is that more people, Christians and Jews, aren't demanding that McCain renounce his endorsement from Hagee. Instead writers like Radosh have used this incident to promote one group's continued agenda of whining that they are the most picked upon people in the entire history of mankind.

[nk007]

Johnz52:

Just imagine if Farrakhan had called the Catholic Church a "great whore" and Obama went to chicago to receive his endorsement, and then refused to reject, denounce, condemn the minister. I can assure you that not only would his presidential campaign be finished, but the Chris Mathews, the Tim Russerts, the New York Times,The Washington Post and Fox News, would be parading influential people, in and out of government, calling on the senate to denounce Farrakhan, censure, or even expel Obama from the senate. If he were not expelled, he would certainly be one term senator. Please tell me why the Clintons are not pointing out this media bias when it comes to John McCain, but they are all over Senator Obama about Farrakhan's endorsement he did not seek and Farrakhan's views he denounced, rejected?

[DC]

1. Farrkahan never endorsed Obama. He spoke about him in a meeting/sermon and said he was a good guy.

2. Obama never went to Chicago to receive an endorsement, that was not.

3. McCain, Hukabee and Lieberman have sought out the endorsement of Hagee.

4. McCain went to Texas to receive and thank him for his endorsement.

Most Americans loath Catholics. it is really PC to Bash Catholics and as you see, good politics.

McCain will never ever have to reject his endorsement because it helps him.

[sqweels]

Come on. This article has nothing to with "I'm more victimized than thou". He's just focusing on one issue at the moment.

[Boobaloo]

I agree with your comment.

We must remember that Zionist Jews are currently participating in a holocaust of the Palestinians and Arabs in general.

No peoples are without blood on their hands.

[BetterDeadthanRedState]

Fundamentalism has a lunatic fringe? Isn't that the equivalent of saying, "There's scum on my scum!"?

[Ohg]

The laws of association in mathematics are equally relevant in politics. An endorsement by any wacko is just an endorsement - but the candidate's response can complete the cycle of associatio­n......
http://thefiresidepost.com/2008/03/01/politics-and-laws-of-association/

[jewforobama]

Wonder what McNuts pal, Joe Lieberman, thinks about Hagee being so hateful to Jews??? Isn't Hagee's accepted endorsement by McNuts a bigger deal than Obama rejecting another hate-monger, Louis Farrakhan??? Why is the MSM so quiet about this?

[dlswriter]

Hagee is really exploiting this profitable niche of Jew-End-Times teachings, so reconciling how non-perfected Jews get to heaven is a piece of cake.

[larstein]

Men like Hagee are the endgame product in the Southernization of American religion that has been going on since the rise of Billy Graham in the 1950s. Though Graham's message was honed to reach the masses of the world, the weirdness of Southern religion comes out of a social order that is aristocratic in nature and tied to racism, classism and many other things indigenous to the Old South and its segregatio­nist/terro­rist past. Thus, the requirement that one adopt the Bible worshipping idolatry of the Evangelical mindset before one is trustworthy, the requirements that magic words (Jesus as personal savior), a prodigal life (one is born evil in Evangelical religion and can only be saved by the Evangelical 12 step approach, which includes associating only with other Evangelicals), quasi-fascist authoritarianism, and embracing ignorance and unquestioning submission as virtue. Hopefully, the collective heracy of this branch of Christianity will go the way of all cults, and eventually mainstream itself out of existence. Sadly, however, it has also proven itself incredibly resistant to change. Maybe a new generation will emphasize more sustainable Christian values than what we've seen so far. All people like Hagee, Robertson, Falwell, et al, have done is given Jesus a bad name.

[JimReed]

That sounds a little harsh. If you try to open your heart you can see a clearer picture of the problem. They don't want war or torture, and they don't condone it, but they have unfortunately kind of preached themselves into a corner. The political conservative link got beyond their control when some few started to use the connection to advance their greed. They would like to be anti war, but that is not easily achieved in the current political climate. Plus they are under attack from an economic double edged sword. They have a promise of faith based tax dollars for conforming, and they are under a thread of removal of tax emempt status if they resist. They WILL figure this out. They will deal with the problem, just give them some time.

[John]

"They WILL figure this out. They will deal with the problem, just give them some time."

Southern Christians have had plenty of time to figure things out. They have failed. They believe in the most absurd collection of soul-destroying, fascist, ethnocentric claptrap of any religion that has ever blighted mankind. Their brand of myopic, infantile Christianity is deeply rooted in a degenerate Southern culture. This culture has only recently considered education for all but a few landed elite to be a subversive activity. Unquestioning adherence to authority, unbridled hostility to those who do, and a perverse pride in these traits, are the hallmarks of Southern culture that thrive to this day. It is no coincidence that the phony version of Christianity practiced by these defectives is one of hatred and condemnation of all those poor unsaved souls residing outside their 'enlightened inner circle.

[JohnJames]

With the Christian right politics always comes first and theology
follows. They recognized a generation ago that no political movement in this country will go too far if it denigrates Jews. Hence their linguistic confection "the Judeo-Christian Tradition" which they constantly invoke in an attempt to
allay any Jewish anxiety . Hence also their general soft-pedaling of
the question
of
Jewish
salvation and in some cases such as Hagee and
Coulter a complete reversal of Christian tradition. As much as the fundamentalist like to deny it
Christianity has
changed in its emphases throughout its history and they're
no different.

[JohnJames]

Sorry for the fragmented sentences. My keyboard was being uncooperative.

[Oldsalt]

Obviously, your keyboard is possessed of evil spirits. REPENT!!

[The Collinbrandt]

If the United States would have been created as a church-state entity, we would be fighting unending wars between the various Christian Sects. Each interpretation of each line in the bible would cost thousands of lives. Millions died in Europe fighting over who was the best christian? The framers of the Constitution understood European History and created a secular state. People who want a church state relationship should ask themselves if they want their children to die fighting in a civil war over the interpretation of a biblical phrase?

[martinspringfield]

The United States could never have created such an entity, because even those states with dominant sects and/or state religions were at odds with one another, e.g. Anglican Virginia vs. Congregationalist Massachussetts. The very variety of religion in America led to our ecumenical nature, as cosmopolitan civilizations (such as the Rome that begat the sycretist Jesus Christ) always do.

[robiform]

Hagee is a wonderful example of the horror that I, as a Jew, feel every time I see or hear that some group purportedly representing Jews honors one of the so-called Christian Zionists. News flash for my fellow Jews--the Christian Zionists and their political supporters support Israel because they believe in the Rapture, which according to them can only happen when all Jews are in Israel. Then. . .oops, Jews don't accept Christ as Messiah so off they go to hell. With friends like the Christian Zionists, who needs enemies???

[newworldman777]

Who needs any Zionists? Zionism has caused more turmoil in the Middle East than any other negative entity, and America's unwavering support for Zionism, encouraged by religious zealots like Hagee, has created more Islamic hatred for America than all of our other meddling faults put together, resulting in disasters like 9-11. Of course, Hagee wants America to attack Iran yesterday, because Iran supposedly presents a threat to Israeli Zionist endeavors. Christopher Hitchins' opinion about religion sounds more and more logical as time progresses.

[Oldsalt]

Hitler lives in the collective guilt of "Christian" Germany and all of those within Europe who through active or passive means brought about the holocaust. That guilt put us in league with the Zionists, Menachim Begin, Stern Gang, et al, to create the Jewish state by evicting the Palestinians from their historical homeland. Muslim peoples are not far from the truth when they say that Christians committed monstrous crimes against Jews (& other "defectives") and Muslims are being punished for it.
As for me, I don't have a dog in the fight. A pox on both their houses!
Recovered Catholic

[Psalm30]

I serve as a minister at a 200 year old Presbyterian church. And I am writing to correct the author's mistaken impression that Christians believe only Jesus provides a path to the kingdom of God. Quite a few of us do not share that belief. I don't. And I am on firm theological ground when I say that God alone has the decision as to who enters the kingdom. Our ways are not God's ways. We like to draw distinctions between people and put up phony barriers to keep some people insiders and some people outsiders. But somehow, I don't think God feels beholden to our exclusiveness and divisions. So we can speculate all we like about the '5 People You Will Meet in Heaven.' But that's all it is. Speculation.

If the Gospels provide any clues, it appears to me as if many of us will be shocked to the core at the people we meet in heaven. Throughout Jesus' travels there were a constant parade of people who had been kicked out of their communities, or people who were foreigners, or people who were looked down on for various reasons. They were the one's who proclaimed him to be the Messiah. The big mega temples and synagogues of the day were not his fan base. Those sorts of people did not welcome him in their fellowships back then and they don't really welcome him into fellowship today in the big mega churches.

Certainly, I can say with complete confidence that if anyone had said Jews couldn't go to heaven in the presence of Jesus (who was Jewish after all) he would have looked them in blank astonishment. Because, as he pointed out himself, he came that the children might be fed.

As for what Hagee says about catholicism, he is talking out of his hat. I'm sorry. I can't pretty it up more than that. What he says about catholics is wrong and it is divisive. He needs to be confronted repeatedly until he sees his error.

[JohnJames]

I'm an ex-Catholic but I do know that that is not Catholic tradition. It's Jesus or damnation. As far as I've ever heard it's not any kind of traditional Protestantism either. Jesus did say that only through Him... Or do you think Jesus meant only through someone like Him, someone equally enlightened? Some Buddhists seem to interpret it that way.

[alkamm]

Jesus said we should be like him, that we can all be like him if we practice compassion and dedication to living more abundantly rather than more circumscribed and culturally bound.

His whole life was spent in arguing that we are all different and yet all blessed. Dostoyevsky's "Grand Inquisitor" chapter shows how Catholics and other religionists usurped an otherwise ecumenical message and sold the sheep on needing them as shepherds.

The idea that we can only come to a personal relationship through him is probably a misunderstood transcription of his insistence on being an object lesson of human potentials rather than the founder of an exclusive, punitive religion that he consistently argued and acted against.

He probably also got laid, as did his mother before his birth, but there's a certain mentality, then and now, which dislikes the messy business of life and prefers to concentrate on death.

[RickTheScribe]

I'm merely a layman, but I'm confident that your theological view is the correct one. Sadly, however, many who call themselves Christians do, indeed, believe that they are the only ones who aren't destined to spend eternity in Hell. The Hagees, Falwells, Robertsons, etc., and their followers believe what they want to believe and often it has little or no scriptural basis. Even more dangerously, these people actively try to force the fulfillment of biblical prophesy through efforts to get Jews to immigrate to Israel and through support of war in the Middle East. Pat Robertson believes that Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated because his peace efforts were interfering with God's plans for perpetual war. Hagee has said that calls for Israel to show restraint go against "God's foreign policy statement" toward Israel. Of even more concern is the fact that this sort of thinking has seeped into our government through politicians such as Tom Delay, Rick Santorum and Sam Brownback. Even the White House has taken a similar stand during the Bush Administration. A couple of years ago the White House sponsored a meeting with leading fundamentalist ministers to explain that Gaza was not part of historical Judea or Samaria, so it was okay for Israel to withdraw settlements because it wouldn't interfere with God's plan for Armageddon. Personally, I've never understood why an all-powerful God would need so much help from right-wing fundamentalists to guide Her plan (I like to think of God as a woman because I believe in a God of peace and mercy rather than vengeance). And I've always suspected that there are many paths to God because, as you pointed out, God alone decides who gets into Heaven.

[hartkid]

Heaven! That's hilarious. You guys are too much.