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Dave Hollander

Dave Hollander

Posted: November 4, 2010 11:08 AM

Are New York Marathoners Athletes?

What's Your Reaction:

Allow me to share an exchange I had with my good friend, the writer C.J. Sullivan, as we discussed the following question:

Are New York Marathoners Athletes?

Sullivan: I would answer that with a loud, "Hell No!"

Well let me qualify that. Out of the 37,000 duffers that will pollute the streets of our fair city this Sunday - November 7th - maybe 500 are athletes. The elite runners are something to watch. They are so lean they look almost alien. Them I admire. They are in an actual race. It is the 36,500 other fools that annoy me every year.

Running is a great way to stay in shape. And running 26 miles is some kind of torturous accomplishment - but they are not athletes. They endure and then squawk about it endlessly as some kind of heroic feat. It smacks of narcissism not sport. Marathons are the last refuge for those that couldn't cut it in other sports. Any knucklehead in decent shape can train and then run 26 miles in under 4 or 5 hours. It means you are in shape. It does not make you an athlete.

When people work out at Gold's Gym doing cardio and lifting weights, they do not think they are engaging in athletics. They do it to stay in shape. My gym workout does not qualify me as an athlete. Same with running. It is exercise. When you get down in a basketball game then we are talking sport.

The NYC Marathon, after the first 500 runners, is no longer a race. It is like a parade of badly clad folks sucking wind and struggling up First Avenue. They shut the city down for the whole damn day just so the stragglers can say they "finished."

Now if the city did not police the Marathon and the runners had to deal with traffic and muggers maybe we could qualify it as some kind of Extreme Urban Sport. But to shut down New York on a Sunday so a Merrill Lynch broker can fulfill some personal obsession just isn't right. I say run through a Brooklyn ghetto at night and see how you make out. Then I might consider you daring or heroic.

Hollander: The whole thing is insufferable. We all know someone who, a year in advance, decides they're going to run the marathon. And that's all they talk about for the entire bloody year. "Yeah, I'm going to the movies this weekend, gotta hit Ikea and of course I'm running in that 10K out in Manasquan, New Jersey ... You know, I'm running the marathon this year." It becomes their identity. Soon you're hit with the onslaught of communal "look at me" activities. "Come support me. Come to my pre-marathon pasta breakfast. Come to my post-marathon party."

Then I feel guilty if I don't come out to support them. Sure, let's all race from subway stop to subway stop across the five boroughs to cheer you on as you run past us looking pained, withered and about the heave all over the P.O.W. look-a-like running next to you. If I really loved you I would pull you out of there!

Beneath the narcissism I detect deep-seated masochism. Kenyans run marathons because they have to. Back home there were no cars, no roads and the nearest school bus or fresh water source was 40 miles away. Their "training" is borne from the necessity to survive. That 36,500 you mentioned, they run to kill personal demons. They beat their bodies swollen and sore to fill an emptiness or quiet a cry.

Sport, no. Self-flagellation, penitence, lunacy -- yes.

Admit it. How many times have you met someone who seemed perfectly normal. You say to your friend, "Hey, I just talked to Jim over there. Great guy!" And your friend says, "Yeah he's a really great guy. Great wife, two kids, a beach house and did you know he runs marathons?" Then mentally you take a step back. You see the touch of madness in Jim's eyes. You recognize the inner-psycho working just beneath his manicured self-presentation. "Oh really," you say "That's (pause) impressive."

Sullivan: Amazingly, for once we are in agreement. With the Mets not in the World Series I needed the diversion of mocking marathoners to get me through this cold fall.

The leaders are running 26 miles with each mile under 5 minutes. That kind of long distance running is damn impressive. But that is were the race ends for me. The rest is just a parade. And an annoying one at that.

But the NYC Marathon is not about who wins and that makes it a non-sporting event to me. It is all about the losers of the race. And then you hear that if you finish - no matter what - you are a winner. Well that is just plain wrong. You lost by hours, sluggard. No one cares that you finished two hours behind the lead pack. You are not a winner. Just a real slow runner.

How about that ING ad about the Marathon being one race with 37,000 stories? Besides who won you can keep all their stories about blisters and pain and self involved obstacles to their glory of finishing. Marathon runners need to tell their stories walking - preferably away from me.

Hollander: To be clear, professional marathon runners are phenomenal athletic specimens. They strive to break through the human limits of speed, strength and endurance while trying to finish ahead of others engaged in the same physical test. Competitive marathoners possess a mental toughness - the acid test which separates the good athletes from the great athletes - second to none and well beyond most. I stand in awe of them.

But the rest of these people who come from all over with this pilgrimage to Mecca mentality, they've got to go. Look, I am all for each of us pushing ourselves. I think everyone has a challenge to meet in life that is theirs and theirs alone. I applaud everyone who has the courage to take that challenge. It's a free country. But someone exercising their inalienable right to see what they can handle physically is not something I need or want to see.

If you narrow the field to only those runners who have demonstrated the ability to win place or show, I think you'd have a much more compelling event for spectators and runners alike. Instead, what we have now is some kind of faux local holiday meets national freak convention.

This year, when I see one of those runners who flew in from Godknowswhere, USA walking around Manhattan, dazed and alone, wrapped in that stupid tin foil, hours after she's finished, I won't give her hug or a bottle of Evian. I'll give her the name of good therapist.

 

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09:38 AM on 11/22/2010
Please check out the following excerpt from an interview with Fran Lebowitz: (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/21/arts/television/21lebowitz.html)

On marathon running:

You just had the marathon, it seems to be an absurd thing for adults to concern themselves with. Do you know how much time it takes to train to be in a marathon? You spend your whole life practically doing that. Does that seem like a fruitful way for an adult to spend their time? It seems insane to me. When you see the people, they always say: “I’ve been training. I run so many hours a day.” And then even the four hours it takes them to run it seems like a waste of time to me — and then what?
04:13 PM on 11/11/2010
I'd suggest that the author shouldn't really call himself a writer what with the typos I found here. People in glass houses and all.
10:52 PM on 11/17/2010
I would bet he's a lot smarter than you. Not to mention your criticism of him is of mistakes or accidents not his message. Good thing you feel the same way I guess.
01:24 PM on 11/11/2010
I've ran 5 marathons..and after everyone I've thought," why the F did I do that? Never again". I agree with these writings most recreational marathoners (i.e. Hobby Joggers) are insufferable twits. When I qualified for Boston, I didn't cry, I didn't jump up and down, I didn't pray or thank god....I grabbed Mountain Dew and some bread because damn I was hungry.
A marathon is and will always be just a race....a long race at that, but a race.
09:24 PM on 11/10/2010
I wonder if you spent months upon months slogging it out, putting your body through hours of pain and then completed a marathon, you would still think the same way. It's easy to be an arm chair critic.

And no, I have not run a marathon but have nothing but admiration for all that do, elite runners or not.
11:09 AM on 11/10/2010
Years ago, after losing the father of my daughters, I struggled with the aftermath by eating my way through grief. I was unhealthy and sad. I met a runner who began to take me to various races; he thought I would enjoy that. I would wait at the finish line with impatience; I was bored, and to be honest, the skinny little wenches with their sinewy musculature pissed me off. That runner I waited for bought me a pair of Asics, and pushed me out the door. My first run in YEARS, and I was done at mile 0.25. I kept at it, and now I am the proud FINISHER of seven marathons, 15 half-marathons, numerous triathlons and a duathlon--even winning some age group awards along the way. I don't need anyone to define "athleticism" to me; I know what it means. I call myself an athlete, and I wonder if the author has ever run a marathon? Let us have our moments of glory. Who are we possibly hurting? I look forward to running NYC in 2012...I look forward to being a "finisher". If you don't like it, don't watch. Just keep eating your quarter pounders and fries. It doesn't affect me at all.
04:33 PM on 11/09/2010
I just finished my first marathon after training since June. I completed the marathon in 4 hours and 30 minutes - what I feel is a great accomplishment. I was thrilled to be able to share this event with my friends and family.

You've ruined my feelings of pride and success in one terribly written, selfish, and downright MEAN article. Seems like you are the narcissistic one here.

What is even the purpose of publishing this article, if not to offend millions of avid runners everywhere?

I hope you are ashamed.
09:08 AM on 11/11/2010
Why let this article take away what you have accomplished? Who cares what this guy thinks? You are a marathoner. You know your inner strength. You do not need validation from any other source. I have finished 24 marathons. I have run the Olympic courses. No one defines me except me.

Keep running.
10:54 PM on 11/17/2010
I'd give you a cookie. Quit being a baby.
09:22 AM on 11/09/2010
I coach girls in grades 3-5 through a running program called Girls On The Run. Many of them never thought they were capable of running a 5K until they completed our program. They are athletes, every one of them, as is anyone who trains for a physical sport or competition. The authors of this article have clearly never set physical challenges for themselves, so they feel justified in calling people who do "crazy." How sad for them. But hey, that's just more road for the rest of us.
10:58 PM on 11/17/2010
So anyone who does anything physical plays a sport? So the national chess team lifts their hands every move...sport? National thumb war champ, sport? National staring contest, Sport? How about air guitar contest? And for the record the authors did play sports. Don't confuse sports with games, contests, activities or competitions.
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10:33 PM on 11/21/2010
Care to explain what you are talking about?
11:43 PM on 11/08/2010
I think you're missing a major point: Many marathoners don't care if anyone thinks we're athletes.
I've run two marathons, and I've got my reasons and my sob stories, but I'm aware that only other people who do marathons (and maybe my mom) are interested.
Marathoning means a lot of things to a lot of different people. It's a culture that we share with each other and it's not everyone's thing, and that's ok. But you do know that the marathon is the first Sunday of every November. Why don't you skip town for that day if you don't want to see it? I don't see why it's so much different from a political rally or a pride parade.
04:48 PM on 11/05/2010
I really hope this post was intended as a joke. Otherwise I wouldn't know where to start to describe the level of ignorance of the authors. You would think that one of the most popular professors at the NYU Tisch Center for Hospitality, Tourism and Sports Management would know about the $220 million in economic impact that those "non-athletes" bring to the city. Or that he would at least know the definition of "athlete". Among those who finish in 4 or 5 hours are thousands of people who faced great adversity (terrible accidents, cancer etc) and this is their way of celebrating life. Calling it a "parade" is by far the most ignorant comment I've heard in 3 years as a runner. Again, I hope they were just trying to be funny.
03:20 PM on 11/05/2010
You complain about the narcissism of marathoners and then refer to basketball as good example of a sport! From NBA to pickup games the individual show boating, trash talking, and ball hogging in a great "team sport" is unbelievable. Having participated in both sports I challenge you to run a marathon in Boston Marathon qualifying time and compare it to a 60 minute game of basketball before you continue your complaining. (example: 26.2 miles in 3 hours 15 minutes for a 38 year old man)
11:02 PM on 11/17/2010
Ok wow you're in shape! Doesn't make it a sport. Lets see who can hold their thumb up for 15 days total. I bet thats harder than a basketball game. Read the guinness book of world records. most of that crap is harder than a basketball game. Terrible example chief. Epic fail. Better luck next time.
02:41 PM on 11/05/2010
Congratulations, you wrote something provocative and obtained many clicks. Awesome. Many of us who are not elites do this because we enjoy competing, we enjoy the "movement". Many of us want a challenge that go beyond what we have to do in the daily life and replace it with what we would like to do. Running marathons provides this challenge. There is a lot more to write here but this is the amount of time your article can steal from me. I am sure you know everything so much better than us fools. Rasim Musal. 2009 Boston 525th Runner 2:49:47 PhD in Decision Sciences.
Thank you.
11:04 PM on 11/17/2010
Thanks Rasim, now go back to being productive and running in circles.
11:06 PM on 11/17/2010
Not to mention Decision Sciences isn't a real study.
09:29 PM on 11/04/2010
I disagree with your definition of a an athlete. The word athlete can be defined as "a person trained to compete in sports". Long distance running is a sport. Running a marathon requires training. Therefore all the New York marathoners are athletes.

Doesn't matter if you compete in a wheelchair .. or you're 60 years old with a bad knee .. or you need to run/walk.. If you train for a sporting event, you are an athlete. That's as simple as that.
05:15 PM on 11/04/2010
At first you say the runners are not 'athletes' because running is not a recognized 'sport'. Then you concede that it is actually a sport but only the ones that win are the athletes. This post is sillyness.

Sidenote: In my experience runners are by far some of the most down to earth non-narcissistic people around. Who else would spend so much time in public looking silly and out of breathe, obviously not you.
07:08 PM on 11/04/2010
Precisely. I've run alongside people that I've never met who are all smiles and totally laid back. During one of the more competitive "race" type races (the Fifth Avenue Mile) where we were all aiming for the fastest mile possible, everyone was joking and having a good time while waiting for our heat to start. Runners will stop in the middle of a race to help somebody if they're in trouble. A lot of marathoners, in particular, run as part of a charity effort to raise thousands of dollars for dozens of causes.

And we look pretty damn silly in skin tight leggings on a cold winter run. :) Narcissism is not the first word that comes to mind when I think of the running community.
04:12 PM on 11/04/2010
Out of curiosity, have any of the writers here been an athlete? Or run a marathon? I was classified as an competitive athlete in high school (unless of course, you wish to exclude *that* as well on the basis that it's not professional level), and I am an active member of NYRR. I've been running races over the year to earn guaranteed entry into the 2011 ING NYC marathon, and this post is unsettling to say the least if not completely uncalled for.

I had to get back to the same level of endurance, stamina, and sheer discipline in order to acquire that guaranteed entry that I had while competing in soccer, basketball, track & field, etc. in high school. There's the "typical gym-goer" who might fit your description, and then there's the vast majority of marathon hopefuls and competitors who experience that "my body feels tired today...do I really need to get out there and train," and then goes out and does it anyway. You can't survive a marathon (or even a half for that matter) without that kind of discipline and work ethic.

The ridiculing tone above is simply uncalled for. The NYRR photographer points that out perfectly. Especially when you're describe tens of thousands of people who will accomplish something that it sounds like you never have, and with that attitude, never will.
01:35 PM on 11/04/2010
I am a photographer for New York Road Runners, who help present the marathon every year. I think that you're right about the 500 "elite" runners being the real athletes here. No one in their right mind is going to say otherwise. But to say that the other 36500 are simply narcissistic is truly unfortunate. Running a marathon is definitely something to be proud of, and don't people share the proud moments in their lives with their friends, family, and coworkers? Do you think people who share news of their new baby, or their daughter's wedding, or their other good news are "insufferable" as well? The people I photograph in these races are far from being elite runners or athletes. In a country where obesity is such a problem, are you really going to discourage people from running? Really?

The marathon is a celebration of human interest, human stories, and human accomplishment. And the fact that the thousands of the people completing the marathon have made the commitment to get out there and exercise, the commitment to train and to finish, is inspiring and beautiful.
04:17 PM on 11/04/2010
Excellent post. I think that in today's society, with obesity being such a health crisis, to write an article that trashes people for running is down right criminal.