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And then god said, "Let there ... oh, you already have life"

Posted: 12/07/08 05:50 AM ET

It has been a failure of all us atheistical Darwinists intent on dragging the world, kicking and screaming, into the 1860s, and out of the clutches of the religion-be-deviled proudly ignorant dark-age-living creationists. A failure of nerve or conviction perhaps, a kind of naive apolitical strictly scientific honest-to-a-fault response to people who have been made brain dead by one of the most ruthless and dishonest brain-washing operations ever seen.

You will all be familiar with the sequence, indeed it is the kind of ritualised blog ballet that has developed over a whole range of questions in the last few years (climate change and Iraq being just two of the other most obvious). One of us who regularly writes about evolution will mention some new fossil discovery, or explain a particular aspect of evolution, or a new hypothesis about some evolutionary mechanism, or some outrage about teaching children creationism instead of science, or will simply pour scorn on some ignorant man with staring eyes and odd sexual tastes who loves guns and war and hates gays and who is ranting that the problem with the world today is Darwinism. We will calmly and rationally outline the scientific proposition, and then at some point a poster will say, well, it's all very well talking about how viruses mutate, or bird beaks in the Galapagos, but you have to admit that evolution has nothing to say about the ORIGIN OF LIFE.

Now at this point I tend to be very rude. Many years since I have suffered fools gladly (well, to be honest I have never suffered fools gladly, but I used to be a lot more patient than I am now). But many of my colleagues on the creationbusters team do tend to be polite, and they will metaphorically shuffle their feet at this point and write a response along the lines of, "yes, you are quite right, evolutionary theory doesn't address the origins of life, just everything that has happened since". And then, in a gotcha moment equivalent to the response Hannity might make to Obama saying "yes, yes, I am a socialist", the fundamentalist fool at the keyboard will say that this means god created life. And, as the first night follows the first day, if god created life, it logically follows that he could have chosen to create man as a separate event, and for other species could have been dabbling in DNA ever since,

No, I don't know why they do it. Well, some of it is the natural politeness which us Darwinists have evolved as a defense mechanism against idiots. But the rest of it I think is a case of not understanding the rough beast we are up against. It is a kind of scientific good manners, in which those of us who work on say reptile evolution, or demonstrating that chimpanzees are the closest thing we have to a living long lost brother, defer questions about origins to those who actually look at ancient rocks, or investigate exobiology, or who carry out experiments in abiogenesis and so on. That is their field, and if they want to write about it they can, but those of us in other biological specialities would be treading on toes if we tried to comment.

I guess in practical terms there is some kind of division between those who work on origins and those of us who study the fact of evolution that followed, but there is no theoretical division at all. natural selection works just as well on non-biological materials as on living organisms. In fact I would argue that you couldn't evolve life without the process of natural selection operating to gradually favor collections of chemicals with a structure that could survive more than a short time, and then favor the structures that could reproduce themselves. The point at which this process produces things we might call "life" is a matter for academic debate, but is irrelevant to the realty of the process. Structures that last longer than other structures will become more numerous, structures which can reproduce themselves will become more numerous than those that can't. It is impossible to visualize life emerging without a process of natural selection to act as midwife. And that truism, incidentally, means that any planet that has water could potentially produce, could potentially have produced, life. It need not necessarily have done so, many a slip twixt the complex chemical and the primeval slime, but the chances are that not just all over the universe, but even just all over the galaxy, there are creatures who have their own Darwins replacing primitive mythologies about their origins.

So no more Mr Nice Biologist - natural selection doesn't just help life evolve, it creates life in the first place. Not to insist on that, at every possible opportunity, would have been like Killer Kowalski letting his opponents up from the mat, dusting them down, and giving them a free shot at him. Life evolved on this planet by a mechanism that is simply a tautology, and the planet having burst into life, its subsequent history was a matter of carefully refining its characteristics by that same tautology, and multiplying its forms by geographic separation. There is no mystery here, no outstretched finger breathing life, nothing to puzzle over except the minor details of when and where and precisely how the chemicals changed from inorganic chemistry to organic chemistry. Life evolved. In both senses of that term.

My last Huffington post, suggesting a vaccine against religion, to be used on children, was picked up by blogs all over the world, and visitors came flooding in to see what other rude things were said about religion on the Watermelon Blog. Now they can check out all the other rude things I say about creationists too.

 

Follow David Horton on Twitter: www.twitter.com/watermelon_man

It has been a failure of all us atheistical Darwinists intent on dragging the world, kicking and screaming, into the 1860s, and out of the clutches of the religion-be-deviled proudly ignorant dark-age...
It has been a failure of all us atheistical Darwinists intent on dragging the world, kicking and screaming, into the 1860s, and out of the clutches of the religion-be-deviled proudly ignorant dark-age...
 
 
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07:18 PM on 12/09/2008
I find it interesting that people debating this issue fail on four keys points:

1.) The controversy actually resides within the ranks of the religious pseudosciences.
ID states that, according to Behe (ID's leading advocate), that the earth is indeed 4.6 billion years old (as reflected in his testimony in the Dover, PS trial). Which flies directly in the face of YECs (young earth creationists) and the inerrancy of the Bible which says (via theological calculations) the earth began in 4004 BCE, 6000 years years ago.

Yet, earlier this year in the case, Association of Christian Schools International et al. v. Roman Stearns et al., Behe stated that science books like 'Biology for Christian Schools' are perfectly good science textbooks.

However, these books declare on the very first page:
A.) "'Whatever the Bible says is so; whatever man says may or may not be so,' is the only [position] a Christian can take. . . ."
B.) "If [scientific] conclusions contradict the Word of God, the conclusions are wrong, no matter how many scientific facts may appear to back them."
C.) "Christians must disregard [scientific hypotheses or theories] that contradict the Bible." (Phillips Decl. Ex. B, at xi.)

(continued)
01:20 PM on 12/10/2008
2.) The IDers, state that we need to teach the controversy, yet as we can see in my first point, they certainly do not want to reciprocate. In the above case, Behe testified; "it is personally abusive and pedagogically damaging to de facto require students to subscribe to an idea. . . . Requiring a student to, effectively, consent to an idea violates his personal integrity. Such a wrenching violation [may cause] a terrible educational outcome." (Behe Decl. Para. 59.)

Biologist PZ Myers wrote "the judge pointed out that the books which Behe approved flatly state that Christians must accept creationist conclusions—unlike our biology books, which don't demand any religious litmus test of their readers—and were therefore perfect examples of exactly the problem he was complaining about."

Hypocrisy, anyone?

3.) ID is based on religion: The Wedge Document. The ID movement is orchestrated by the Center for Science and Culture (CSC), a subdivision of the Discovery Institute, a conservative Christian think tank based in Seattle. The CSC’s purpose consists of two points:
A.) Challenge the validity of scientific evolution
B.) Replace it with ID
In this document, the Discovery Institute states that the center's long-term goals are nothing less than the "overthrow of materialism and its cultural legacies," and the replacement of "materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God."
http://www.antievolution.org/features/wedge.html

(continued)
06:06 PM on 12/10/2008
4.) Botany. Do you notice that the IDers mention nothing about evolution in regards to the plant kingdom? This is because there are no known objections. Scientific evolution is so much so considered fact, that it rarely is ever even mentioned, except by those studying paleobotany.
http://www.botany.org/outreach/evolution.php

As the above link states:
"Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life."
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ScooterLiddy
IT Project Manager, retired Air Force officer, run
10:47 PM on 12/08/2008
Here ya go creationists: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85LGttCxmqk
07:52 AM on 12/08/2008
Hmm .. I've heard this before. Evolutionists seem to believe that rocks are life. It's quite interesting ... :)
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HeevenSteven
20 Minutes into the future.
01:23 PM on 12/08/2008
"....Rocks are life"

Check your head, you'll have proof.
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ScooterLiddy
IT Project Manager, retired Air Force officer, run
10:41 PM on 12/08/2008
Good one! ROTFLMAO!!
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nemonemini
Blogger at Darwiniana
05:11 PM on 12/07/2008
I fail to see the point of this line of argument. The origin of life is a problem for science, and certainly for Darwinism. Creationism is not the answer. But that doesn't make life any easier for Darwinism. Let's face it, the natural selection argument is inadequate, not only for life, but for the evolution of life after the origin. Shouting at creationists won't change this.
Commentary at Darwiniana:
http://darwiniana.com/2008/12/07/if-you-call-creationists-stupid-dont-be-stupid/
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HeevenSteven
20 Minutes into the future.
06:03 PM on 12/07/2008
"I fail to see the point of this line of argument. "

That is an understatement.
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David Horton
05:01 PM on 12/07/2008
Thanks to all, especially those providing further reading. The comment that someone needed to create the chemicals for natural selection to work on is just pushing the argument back even further, the usual god of the gaps proposition. But the origins of matter (from "nothing") are being thoroughly explored, and atheists find plenty of solace in quantum physics (see http://www.blognow.com.au/mrpickwick/98346/Origin_sins.html). From the point that you have matter the universe unfolds with its own version of natural selection influencing the formation of stars and planets.
12:46 PM on 12/07/2008
David,

Some readers may want to pursue the scientific basis for your position on selection operating on pre-animate matter to produce viable biologics. One of my favorite authors on the subject is Harold Morowitz. Two of his books on this subject are: "The Emergence of Everything: How the World Became Complex", and "Beginnings of Cellular Life: Metabolism Recapitulates Biogenesis" which works backwards from metabolism to show how simpler chemical processes could have led to the more complex ones such as the Krebs cycle.

For more mathematically astute readers his book "Energy Flow in Biology" is a must read classic. There have been several more modern attempts to show that the flow of energy through a complex mix of chemicals (such as the pre-biotic earth) drives the incessant recombinations of chemicals in both physical (e.g. convective) and chemical cycles, while at the same time applying selection pressures to produce the most stable compounds.

No one has yet produced a convincing demonstration of abiogenesis, but there are multiple paths that have been demonstrated that place a strong argument on the idea that life arose quite naturally from the fulment that was the primitive earth.
11:55 AM on 12/07/2008
Hi David,
Even non-atheistical Darwinists have had it up to here! You might enjoy this recent post. It makes a new point about creationism/ID being poor theology as well as fantasy science. Some of the guest comments tell your whole story again:
Intelligent Design Rules Out God's Sovereignty Over Chance
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977514804
“What proponents of so-called intelligent design have cynically omitted in their polemic is that according to Biblical tradition, chance has always been considered God's choice as well.”
01:01 PM on 12/07/2008
Creationists biggest blow to religion is that they put Science on a pedestal by trying, so pitifully, to get their faith-based "theory" to be treated as science.

Why they feel that they need bible stories taught as science is beyond me.
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Roseberry
The neutrinos ate my homework.
10:23 AM on 12/07/2008
Tell me: How did the stuff that evolved into "life" get here? How did that something appear out of nothing at all?
Also, why do you not capitalize the word God in your title or in your text? Even if you do not believe in him/her/it/whatever, can you not at least humor the poor folk who are not as smart as you?
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LeftRight
TANSTAAFL
12:57 PM on 12/07/2008
They're finding more and more of it spread throughout the Universe.

And as for capitalizing the g in god, why should we? We don't think that he's divine, or even exists, so why would we take the extra time to hit the shift key just to humor the very people that we said we aren't going to humor anymore???
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HeevenSteven
20 Minutes into the future.
01:16 PM on 12/07/2008
Chemistry and physics! There's plenty of work being done on self-oganization. Look up Stuart Kauffman.

Of course until someone created life in test tube, it will be denied by many; but that will be so even if it does happen in a test tube.
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Dave24
Without God, life is everything.
09:51 AM on 12/07/2008
God is an idea. That's all it is. And it solves nothing because it places an infinitely complex being at the start of infinite simplicity (the nothingness from which quantum fluctuations spawned the big bang). Those who deny evolution need it the most.
08:13 AM on 12/07/2008
Why is it that good evolutionary scientists turn into the exact thing they hate when they talk about Religion? Namely, rabid, thoughtless, screamers. Personally, I blame Dawkins for making such shallow and irrational thinking fashionable. The Neo-athiests arguments against Religion are just as flawed as the Creationist arguments against Evolution.

I love evolution as one of the most elegant world-views to come out of science. It's ability to explain the tremendous variety of life that faces us every day from such a simple set of principles is the exemplar of science. The fact that Darwin devised the theory before we knew about DNA amazes me, as does the theory's ability to dovetail nicely into all subsequent findings.

Given that, I find it distressing, that those who support evolution have somehow decided that this is a struggle between Religion and Science. It isn't. It is a struggle against using the wrong worldview for the wrong questions.

Dawkins likes to quote Douglas Adams who complained that Religion doesn't allow you to ask certain questions. But Science also has questions that we're not allowed to ask. "What happens to us after we die." The scientist will say that there is no way of knowing. Fine. But the question remains.

"What happens to us after we die?" I'd really like to have a framework for thinking about this question and questions like it. That Framework is Religion, and its ridiculous for scientists to try to tear it down.
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ESerafina42
Abandoned by wolves, raised by Republicans.
10:42 AM on 12/07/2008
You certainly ARE allowed to ask any question you want - science is just honest enough to admit that it doesn't have the answers, or it might have an answer you don't like, like probably, nothing - an answer that at least some religions also have. (That's not my answer, incidentally - mine is that if there is something it's not anything that we could conceive of, and not being a Christian I don't believe that anyone has come back to enlighten us.)

Given that Mr. Horton has stated for the record that he intends to be rude, my personal opinion is that he's being relatively polite, certainly much more so than such REAL "evangelical atheists" as Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris, whose pugnacious stances I do NOT think help the "cause."
12:38 PM on 12/07/2008
Agreed.

I've lost a lot of respect for Dawkins. I loved the Blind Watchmaker and I'm about to read "The Extended Phenotype" but then I start wondering whether I want to spend time on a book from someone who seems to have gone off the edge.
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HeevenSteven
20 Minutes into the future.
01:21 PM on 12/07/2008
"science is just honest enough to admit that it doesn't have the answers"

If you had it to write again, would you?
11:40 AM on 12/07/2008
"There's no way of knowing" is a strawman -- that isn't what science replies. The correct answer is: There's no reason to ask the question. Science asks questions based on observable reality -- why do the stars move as they do; what happens when I apply heat to this substance -- not questions that are concocted from imaginary assumptions. "What happens to us after we die" is a non sequitur, like asking where all the unicorns are hiding these days and what the fairies whisper to each other when we're not listening.
Calling it a question that science "doesn't allow us to ask," is a mischaracterization -- there is no basis for even formulating it. And to those of us whose brains are oriented entirely on reality, the question doesn't remain; it never existed and has no reason to exist.
12:36 PM on 12/07/2008
By saying, "there is no reason to ask it" or "there is no basis for asking it." you are saying that the question has no validity, thus making my point.

My point is that the question "What happens after we die." has validity outside of a scientific context. You are trying to say that science is the only context. This is an unnecessary limitation of our worldview.

"What happens after we die" is an important question. It is not a scientific question. But that doesn't make it a "non-sequitur." It certainly isn't like asking "where are all the unicorns hiding" because we have no empirical evidence of unicorns, but we do know that we die.

My point is simply that the atheistic worldview is not a complete worldview. It's only a method for creating self consistent explanations of the observable universe. It is not intended to provide meaning or solace. That's the job of religion.

Neo-athiests are just as bad as fundamentalists when they think that their worldview is the only valid one.
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scjk67
Proud Progressive
07:51 AM on 12/07/2008
hmmmm, let God be the judge not man. i've heard this before but i got to say leave religious out of the government period! i believe the Bible and it should be a personal use. Jesus did point out this many times, but now we're seeing a modern day pharasees trying to control everybodies lives like the so called christian right wing groups to infillerate the GOP. alas they ignore Jesus words " you cannot serve 2 masters...God and money (government)....
08:45 AM on 12/07/2008
huh...?
06:59 AM on 12/07/2008
What'd he say?