In Russia they have a custom of diving into the river in the middle of winter, ice blocks floating, and then jumping out and rolling in the snow. In Sweden, the sauna experience involves sitting in a small hut shoulder to shoulder with naked sweaty men, pouring water on to red hot rocks, lashing yourself with pine branches, and then running outside to roll in the snow.
There are tribes who knock out teeth for initiation, others who carve delicate pieces from the body or tattoo other pieces. There are teenagers, not far from here, who pierce bits of metal through all kinds of body parts. There are men who will happily sit in a stuffy room smoking large cigars with other men.
None of it would do for me I'm afraid. Nor climbing mountains, diving in deep cave lakes, or jumping off cliffs with a rubber band tied to my ankles. Different strokes for different folks, right?
So I don't have any problem, either, with groups of people banding together in stuffy halls, singing dopy songs, being harangued by often apparently certifiably insane men about imaginary beings imaginary life after death and imaginary punishments, and paying big chunks of money for the privilege. Hell, if people pay money to go bungee jumping, who am I to say they shouldn't pay money to religious charlatans (a tautology of course)?
All fine by me then - atheists are inevitably easy going about the huge diversity of often whacky beliefs that go to make up human conversation on this dying planet of ours. But we do get pardonably a little testy about one thing, compulsion.
No one is trying to make me roll naked in the snow, or leap from a tall building, or shove sharp metal objects through my most delicate body parts. But the groups of people who gather in large buildings to be harangued by preachers are trying to make me do stuff. They are trying to change laws to affect the way everyone lives, reduce freedoms to see and hear things, damage science, determine foreign policy, make sure that elected officials will obey their wishes. Make sure, in fact that only true believers can be elected.
And, worst of all, they are trying to ensure that their children, everyone's children, will be brainwashed to become true believers in turn. The children of bungee jumpers may or may not decide to follow the lunatic example set by their parents. The children of evangelicals will have a hell of a time breaking away, and will almost inevitably find it psychologically impossible.
So there you have it. I'll happily walk to church with you, and wave goodbye cheerfully as you go inside the door. I'll wait for you to come out and we can resume our friendship. Hell, I will even go Christmas shopping (though secretly viewing it as a pagan midwinter festival with a very long history) and pretend to enjoy Christmas carols.
But please, don't start a political war in favor of your version of Christmas, or your version of the good life. That's when my famous tolerance of diversity comes to a grinding halt, and I man the secular barricades shoulder to shoulder with Richard and Sam and Daniel and even Christopher. The five musketeers, one for all and all for one.
Musketeers everywhere are warmly invited to sample David Horton's musings on The Watermelon Blog.
Follow David Horton on Twitter: www.twitter.com/watermelon_man
You are going about this all wrong...
If you say you are Athiest, you tell them you are a crazy person begging to be saved, and they swarm you like mosqitos...
I call myself a practicing agnostic, and quote sections of the Bible, Torah, Qu'ran, or anything else I find interesting. I discuss the Ba'hai faith and compare the Quakers with the Daoists. I consider the possibility of a link between Mormon and Muslim. By the time I finish telling them my beliefs (because Christians invariably ask when I tell them I am a practicing agnostic), they just want to run for their sanity.
There are ways of dealing with Christians, but I still love the story I heard about the Ren Fair attendies who were about to go. He was dressed as a Viking warrior, complete with greatsword, when a couple prosletizers showed up. He yelled at his wife "Dear, put the stewpot on the burner, I got two more." They left at high speed.
From irrational thought?
Unprovable belief systems?
Science (and our stable political/economic system) has provided the
standard of living we now enjoy. Yes scientific knowledge and technical abilities
can be developed to make weapons and kill people or to render the planet uninhabitable
for thousands of years.
Religious belief systems can be used to motivate people to live virtuous lives and
help those less fortunate, alleviate suffering and so on.
Unfortunately, like any other tool, religion can also be used to manipulate and motivate the worst
in human nature as well.
Your point was .... ?
If you write a blog blaming "science" or "technology" for the ills of our society, I'm afraid the
finger is going to be pointed right back to the uses and abuses, political and otherwise.
Please don't let my pessimism stop you (from writing), though.
Get over it.
In contrast "Avraham Trahtman, a Russian mathematician, solved the “Road Coloring Problem.” The conjecture assumed it’s possible to create a “universal map” that can direct people to arrive at a certain destination, at the same time, regardless of starting point. Experts say the proposition could have real-life applications in mapping and computer science." [Ref:
http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/russian-jew-solves-math-problem-that-makes-foolproof-global-tracking-possible/]
This, dear, is science. Why doesn't Horton talk about stuff like this? Don't know about you guys, but I'd love to learn more about this.
Astrophysicists are also finding new planets nearly daily and the means by which they discover them is as fascinating and clever as the discoveries are wonderful.
Do you suppose you folks could ever get off your anti-religion ranting long enough to notice?
Science is fascinating, whereas these diatribes are boring. That, friend, was my point.
Now, what do we do about the charlatans that have embedded into that "elite corp" of the nationally elected, such as "THE FAMILY" and the "UNIFICATION CHURCH" and others with shell companies that shelter their accumulation of wealth and have personal relationships with those dynasty-types - George H W Bush and Hillary Clinton?
What to do, what to do....
Shine a light through the
"holier than thou", "do as I say, not as I do"
Show them as they are
Far, VERY far from that 'Fisher of men'
Way back 'when'.
Snake oil's been sold
They've been very bold
And not at all cautious in their rantings
Money is the mode
Souls have been sold
To that beast - good ol' Mamon.
"Buyer beware" - there is no "There there"
No heaven, no gate, to Peter doing the rating...
All in your head - all the fairytales fed
In that bellowing style of a
Kool Aide guzzling Christian.