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Where Did The Bible Come From?

Posted: 07/13/11 10:42 AM ET

Since the early years of Christianity, various myths, legends, and even conspiracy theories about the origins of the Bible have enjoyed wide circulation. The discovery in recent decades of many books that were not accepted into the Christian canon has only added to this speculation, spawning numerous best-sellers and television programs. Though the number of theories has grown, however, the three most popular are sufficiently well defined that we can consider them as we might various options on a multiple-choice quiz. So read carefully and then make your selection.

The Big Three

A: Holy Dictation. Promoted by conservative Christians, this view stresses the inerrancy -- that is, the factual accuracy in all matters of faith, history, and science -- of the Bible. Authors, in the grip of the Holy Spirit, received a divine revelation directly from God that they transcribed without error. So while the biblical authors may have written in their own voice and style, the contents of their compositions were nevertheless divinely inspired and controlled. For this reason, there are no errors of any kind in the Bible; hence, if the Bible says the world was created in seven days then, indeed, it was created in seven days.

B: Imperial Decree. Popularized by historical works like The Gnostic Gospels and fictional books like The Da Vinci Code, this view suggests that the official and final contents of the Bible were established by ecclesial councils ordered by Emperor Constantine and his successors. The intent of these councils was both to provide theological unity to the fledgling Christian empire and to stamp out the rise of feminism and other movements in the heavily patriarchal and increasingly orthodox early Christian church. According to Elaine Pagels, divergent theologies like Gnosticism were a threat to the unity and power of the imperial-backed ecclesial authorities, while for Dan Brown there existed a conspiracy to suppress the "true" story of Jesus' romantic relationship with Mary Magdalene, their unrecognized child, and Mary Magdalene's significant influence in the early church.

C: Forgeries & Falsehoods. Who wrote the Bible? All too often, this view suggests, it wasn't who the actual authors purported to be. Rather, much of the New Testament was written either by persons whose identity remains irrecoverably anonymous or by frauds impersonating famous and powerful Christians of an earlier generation. While the gospels represent the former case, many of the letters attributed to the Apostle Paul as well as those attributed to Peter and others represent the latter. As Bart Ehrman has recently argued, the checkered history of the composition of these books undermines the integrity of the New Testament as a whole.

So what do you think -- did you find a satisfactory answer? If not, it will help to remember that multiple-choice tests often offer a fourth choice, "D: None of the Above." As it happens, that choice would be the better answer for this question, as each of the first three possibilities is flawed. For instance, while Mormons have a story that describes the divine transmission of their holy book, Christians by and large have rarely made such claims. In fact, the theory of inerrancy -- a word never used in the Bible -- was only coined only a century ago by fundamentalist Christians seeking to defend the Bible from recent discoveries about its historical origins and fallible conclusions in the realms of history and science.

Similarly, there was no council -- imperial or otherwise -- that established the Christian canon once and for all. In fact, lists describing the most commonly accepted Christian writings that correspond closely to the present Bible were circulating a century or more before Constantine had his famous conversation. Later councils, like that at Carthage (397 CE), affirmed those books that had already gained wide acceptance. While early church leaders clearly opposed theological stances that were later to be described as Gnosticism, many of those writings had already lost favor in Christian congregations apart from and often before their rejection by ecclesial authorities. Similarly, although there is no question that the role and importance of women was grossly underemphasized in some books of the Bible, this reflects as much a strong cultural bias as it does any conspiracy. Further, at significant places in the New Testament women emerge as strong central characters. Note, for instance, that the women are the only disciples to remain at Jesus' cross and are the first witnesses and heralds of the resurrection in all four gospels.

Finally, passing off your work as another's is a more complicated issue than it might first appear. While claiming to be someone else for the sake of profit was roundly criticized in the ancient world as it is today, claiming the authority of a teacher or earlier leader in order to extend the thought and spirit of that author was met with more mixed reviews. Often, the symbolic and traditional importance of the work outweighs correct authorial attribution. For example, while most Jewish and Christian scholars recognize that King David wrote few if any of the Psalms attributed to him, almost no one argues that those Psalms have no merit or should be barred from the canon. At other times, decisions about the value of disputed works are based less on impartial criteria than on the critic's own stance toward the writings in question. That is, scholars both ancient and modern tend to reject such writings as forgeries when they themselves disagree with the content, yet affirm them as worthwhile when the works in question align with their own convictions. For instance, earlier in his career in his book Lost Christianities, Bart Ehrman not only lamented the exclusion of some extra-canonical books but also invited modern readers to reconsider their devotional and spiritual value even though he acknowledges that every one of the books rejected by the Christian church for inclusion in the New Testament makes a false authorial claim.

A Grassroots Process

So then where did the Bible actually come from? Or, perhaps better, what process led to the development of the contents of the Bible as we know them today? Typically, historians suggest two standards that influenced how early Christians came to give priority to some books over others as the New Testament canon came into shape, though neither of these elements ever functioned with the precision of agreed-upon criteria.

First, biblical books were frequently associated with one of the original apostles. The Gospels of Matthew and John are named after original disciples (although the texts that bear their names make no such connection), while Mark was thought to be a student of Peter and Luke a companion to Paul. With other books, however -- the Letter to the Hebrews, for instance -- it was more difficult to make such an association.

Second, books accepted as canonical tended to conform to emerging orthodox teaching. The key word in that last sentence, however, is "emerging." During the period in which the New Testament canon solidified, there was as yet no broad consensus about what would later become central tenets of orthodox Christianity. Often, the books that Christian congregations read most frequently influenced the development of accepted teaching as much as orthodox teaching shaped the choice of what books to read. This helps to explain the distinct pictures of Jesus presented in the four canonical gospels -- think, for instance, how different Mark's suffering Jesus is from John's cosmic Christ -- as well as the presence of books as divergent as Romans and Revelation.

Ultimately, the most important factors influencing the final inclusion or exclusion of books into the Bible tended to be far more pedestrian and pragmatic than any of the three theories we considered above might suggest: longevity and utility. That is, the books that ended up in the New Testament were those that proved themselves over the long haul as most helpful in sustaining Christian faith. While apostolic authorship and concerns for orthodoxy exercised some influence, the dominant factor shaping decisions about canonical status was to note what books Christians consistently read when they gathered for worship and instruction.

This "bottom-up" process was by no means simple or uniform. Some books came in and out of vogue, trendy for a time or in a particular place only later to lose favor. It's only in the fourth century that enough of a consensus on what books were consistently helpful had emerged so that a prominent bishop like Athanasius could name with confidence in a letter to his congregations those books that had been widely accepted (367 CE). Athanasius' testimony in the preface to his list is telling: "I beseech you to bear patiently, if I also write, by way of remembrance, of matters with which you are acquainted." To view Athanasius' recommendation as establishing, rather than recognizing, an emerging canon is therefore to overestimate the significance and authority of ecclesial authorities over local congregations, the places where these books were actually read week in and week out.

If this sounds uncomfortably similar to a popularity contest, perhaps we might view it instead as the long-term process by which the early Christians sorted and sifted through various reflections on the faith until a grassroots consensus emerged on what books proved most useful in sustaining faith. Looked at this way, one doesn't have to reach for conspiracy theories to understand why the gospels of Thomas and Judas and similar writings were ultimately rejected. More often than not, these documents contained little of the narratives of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection that Christians had come to know and cherish. They are, as even a casual reading will grant, often strikingly dissimilar from the other gospels and writings of the New Testament. Because these works were often absent sustained reflection on the cross, usually lacked a coherent narrative, and sometimes contained rather peculiar theological assertions, is not difficult to conceive that they rarely caught hold of the imagination of early Christian congregations.

Proposing that the composition of the New Testament was a long process of recognizing an emerging grassroots and congregational consensus certainly isn't as dramatic as either the religious myths or political and ecclesial conspiracy theories often ventured. Nevertheless, there is something both sensible and comforting in imagining that over time Christians would esteem most highly those writings that most ably encouraged them on their path as disciples of Jesus. After all, what better benchmark to employ than giving authority to those writings -- even writings as varied as those found in the Bible -- that had the capacity to create and nurture faith?

 
 
 
Since the early years of Christianity, various myths, legends, and even conspiracy theories about the origins of the Bible have enjoyed wide circulation. The discovery in recent decades of many books ...
Since the early years of Christianity, various myths, legends, and even conspiracy theories about the origins of the Bible have enjoyed wide circulation. The discovery in recent decades of many books ...
 
 
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08:09 PM on 08/19/2011
it was the catholic church who wrote the bible (the apostles were fthe foundation of the church, st john the apostle disciple said around 107 ad where the bishop is there let the people gather, where christ is there is the catholic church-st ignatius of antioch, the first place christians were called christians was in antioch and that is where the first time the church was called catholic)

it was the catholic church who declared what was the inspired writings of god (many christians of the one church thought revelation, hebrews,didache were and were not scripture) but in council of rome ,carthridge and trent the church declared the cannon and by what authority?

there was no hebrew cannon at time of apostles there were 3 hebrew cannons (pharisees, saduccess,essenes).

there was no caouncil of jamnia . protestant scholarship has shown no council ever took place.

jews disputed the cannon over two hundred years after christ.

there was tons of writing that christians considered from god and not from god. how do you know whats from god and not from god?

end of story it was the catholic church that declared the one cannon and as many protestant and catholic historians have noted it gods inspired word was later removed from protestant bibles.

References

1) why catholic bibles are bigger
2) where we got the bible our debt to the catholic church
3)loose cannons by michael barber
4) many more

Catholicsince33ad.com
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StevenM
High School Chess Coach
03:04 PM on 08/31/2011
The catholic church evolved just like the Bible did.
05:09 PM on 07/22/2011
One problem none of you are addressing, is the fact that we do not have any actual writings from the disciples themselves . We only have copies that we believe are the actual authors of the bible. We are not even sure if who wrote the books of the bible are even the authors they claim to be. To me that is a huge problem that the church has refused to address.
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StevenM
High School Chess Coach
04:25 PM on 08/31/2011
Many conservative Christians proclaimed in their "The Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy" (1978) the following:

"We affirm that inspiration, strictly speaking, applies only to the authographic text of Scripture, which in the providence of God can be ascertained from available manuscripts with great accuracy. We further affirm that copies and translations of Scripture are the Word of God to the extent that they faithfully represent the original."

Of course, it is well known that the original manuscripts (namely, "the authographic text of Scripture") do not exist. This position strikes many as a tad odd. Of course, the mainline Churches and the Roman Catholic Church does NOT share this strange position.
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Damon Coburn
Faith, hope, and love.
02:38 PM on 07/20/2011
The author actually comes quite close to understanding the process, at least as close as someone who doesn't believe the truth of scripture can. The bible cannon is a tradition. The fact that that tradition originates from a "grassroots effort" does not preclude that it is also the product of divine inspiration, the word of God. Rather the process supports that claim. Some of us might argue that such a consensus was possible only by the leading of the Holy Spirit. People all accross the empire who had very different cultures and human traditions were able to recognize the same books as being scripture. This did not happen overnight. The writer is right in saying it was a process, but a process that was able to happen only because the various local churches prayed and listened for God's guidance. I don't expect non-christians to actually believe or appreciate that. However, they should understand that the Bible was delivered to us over time, by more than 40 authors in 3 different languagues. We don't believe it was handed to us on golden tablets as the book of Mormon was supposed to have been or that it was delivered through the teaching of one person as the Koran. It was delivered through many people, to many people, so that it would be a gift for all people. Don't take my or anyone's word for what it is, or what it says, examine it for yourself and come to your own conclusions.
v2787
Progressive and Proud
01:30 PM on 08/05/2011
It might help to be aware that the word is "canon," not "cannon." They're two very, very different things, and it undermines your credibility when you don't know that the correct spelling of the word "canon." It's hard to take someone seriously when they don't use the proper terminology.
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Damon Coburn
Faith, hope, and love.
04:39 PM on 08/05/2011
Really? Is that the best you can do? Critisize a typing error? You dont have anything better to say? This isnt a formal english class. Its an informal discussion forum. I also intentionally leave out apostraphes from my contractions. I dont check spelling or grammer either. That must really annoy you. If you really dont take what I said seriously, then why are you bothering to respond? And why bother responding when you add nothing of value to the conversation? You lack the courage to make your own points, so instead you find something meaningless to poke fun at. Bravo, sir. Keep demonstrating your brilliant intellectual superiority.
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shepherdguy
04:20 PM on 08/09/2011
Ummm....just a word about David Lose's biography, since you dismiss him as "not believing the truth of scripture." Dr. Lose is a leading Lutheran theologian and scholar, and teaches at the largest of the Evangelical Lutheran seminaries. The process as he describes it is accurate. And he does, indeed, believe in the truth of scripture. Before you dismiss him, perhaps you should read his weekly blog, www.workingpreacher.org , which is one of the most helpful sites I know of for sermon preparation...I depend on his insights into the truths of scripture every week.

And as for your urging people to come to their own conclusions by reading the text themselves, I'm all for that...but be aware that if they do so without some guidance such as David Lose offers, the inherent inconsistencies within Scripture may serve more to raise doubts about the "consensus." After all, Marcion read the Hebrew scriptures and the letters of Paul side by side and decided that they couldn't be talking about the same God....
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Damon Coburn
Faith, hope, and love.
06:33 AM on 08/10/2011
Perhaps you are right and that was too harsh a judment. I may have misinterpreted what he was saying, but he came across as dismissive of human and divine authorship, which I found somewhat offensive because I believe he misrepresented it. It doesnt exclude the process he describes. The belief in divine inerrency for example does not require that everything be interpreted literally. It does mean we try to interpret it the best we can determine what God intended for it to teach. The first chapter of Genesis is a poem and some would say is not meant to be interpreted as a historical account. So you can have different interpretations and still believe in inerrency. I dont believe that inerrency constitutes some form of mathematical accuracy in a modern sense, but rather that the Bible is inerrent in all that it intends to teach. One has to take into account various factors including the type of literature, the context, the audience it was written for, and the literary standards of the time.
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J242
Micro-bio? We don't need no stinkin' micro-bio!
01:20 PM on 07/19/2011
"Similarly, there was no council -- imperial or otherwise -- that established the Christian canon once and for all."

Yes there was, the council of Niceae was the first Ecumenical council where they created the entire ruler which the faiths themselves would be measured by. They also specifically put into order the order of books, chapters, and authors what we now recognize as the OT and the NT and the only alterations since then have been translations into different languages. After that the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed just sealed the deal to complete the work.
01:28 PM on 07/20/2011
The First Council of Niceae had nothing to do with establishing the Christian canon of Scripture, the Bible. No authoritative source claims such a thing; not the Catholic Encyclopedia, nor any number of Protestant colleges. Wikipedia notes "there is no record of any discussion of the Biblical Canon at the council at all.[45][46]" The idea is an urban legend.

[45] Ehrman, Bart. Fact and Fiction in The Da Vinci Code, pp. 15-16, 23, 93
[46] Nicea Myths: Common Fables About The Council of Nicea and Constantine. Retrieved on 2010-08-20.
01:01 AM on 07/25/2011
The CoN had did not select the books of the bible - that's an urban legend, popularised by Dan Brown's book of fiction.
04:08 PM on 07/18/2011
I alway wonder what will happen to the early Christians who weren't around when the cannon was finally completed and accepted. Since they didn't / couldn't fully understand how to be and what it is to be a Christian, are they going to he11 or will they be given a pass. Applies doubly to the people who lived and died before Jesus was even born.
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J242
Micro-bio? We don't need no stinkin' micro-bio!
01:22 PM on 07/19/2011
What of the people in remote areas of the world who have never come into contact with X-ians and their specific brand of mythology? Are they all going to suffer in the lake of fire as well? The same people who worship airplanes in the sky as gods because they do not know any better?

The hypocrisy and stunning intellectual absurdity of modern organized religion should be horrendously offensive to anyone with a right mind and a decent education.
01:37 PM on 07/20/2011
Salvation has always been through faith in the redemption from sin by God. Jesus specifically said that Abraham rejoiced to see His (Jesus') day (John 8:56). Abraham was granted Salvation the same way that Christians today are.
05:01 AM on 07/18/2011
E: It came from various religions and myths of the time.

There I answered the question and it wasn't even hard to do.
researcher
researcher
01:28 AM on 07/18/2011
it is a book of profound wisdom, great myths and ignorant myths, and just plain human ignorance.

one side calls it a complete absolute fanasty; the other an absolute compete truth.

neither side has come to realize it is not all compete absolute wisdom or a compete work of ignorance. without realizing it both sides make the same errors by their denial and their blind faith.

now the word ignorance. a synonym for ignorance is unawareness. without our unawareness there is us just isness and you can call isness anything you want for isness cannot be defined. even isness does not define the infinite source of all that is, ie isness. ;-)

to define infinite is to limit infinite and to limit infinite is to put boundaries on infinite. christians infinite has no boundaries therefore you are within infinite not outside knocking on the myth of a hell or heaven door.

oh to find one christian that understands the concept of infinite as all and all. they still think they are separate from infinite and want to take personal responsibility for their unawareness. ie human ego thing of I am culpable and guility. :-(
10:41 PM on 07/17/2011
I believe  John Baptize, Jesus did not come to start a new religion but remained in the religion of those before them, Judah Religion, which was slowly being lost. They came to bring all back on the straight road back to the laws only of God, obey the commandments repent repent and prayer daily in our lives, which is a communication with God. Like they all did. The earth is God's footstool. It was never about land but to return back to God our Savior and only Savior, who said HE is coming here, no were not going out I believe, God makes that clear. The earth will never end, only the world of ungodly , lawless ones, unrighteous ones their world will end. But only through God, for God said I WILL not man. God forces no one to Love him, only wants his Love returned. We can give nothing to God that is not already HIS. Nothing. The earth is my footstool God said. We are all tenants living on land not our own. Love your neighbor has you love your self wraps up all the Laws of God. what is so hard about that? Love your enemies as I have loved you my enemies.
Clevelandinwi
Progressive is good; regressive, not so much.
10:23 PM on 07/17/2011
Awesome!
10:17 PM on 07/17/2011
God never created sin, man created sin. I know the Bible did not come down already written from front to back cover, but put together by man. Much great debate what was in what was out and hundreds of unknown authors writing years after the fact by those even who never walked with any of them. God's word was given orally to his anointed ones, Jesus wrote nothing down, nor Moses, nor Abraham now I see why? All had a trusted relationship with God, all deal with God directly and trust not in man but in God only. All knew the real authority over all has placed within every heart to know God, and given the common sense to know right from wrong. Thousands of years of ago all Nations ruled only orally and laws song to memory repeated to their children for generations. I love all .
mikdfour
Pave the planet!
03:23 PM on 07/17/2011
Funny to see all of the comments bashing Christianity/Bible but the same people wouldn't think about speaking bad of Islam or the Koran. It wouldn't be politically correct, right? Besides, to libs who want to see this country destroyed, Islam is the quickest method available right now.
10:20 PM on 07/17/2011
I do not believe on is bashing the bible but one is to seek the truth of the faith the God they believe in. God would have it no other way. Jesus did not trust in others to teach him either, but rebuked and asked strong questions back to the scholars himself, which by the way they were scared to answer. Do not let others but that guilt on anyone. Not bashing at all. For that could be said about Jesus also, he allowed no one to tell him what to think, he choose freely on his own what to accept or not accept and obeyed only God in doing so.
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adrianrf
Another job-creating immigrant
11:47 PM on 07/17/2011
let me help you with that:
*all* the Abrahamic sky-fairy stories are merely the anachronistic, incoherent and irrational ravings of Iron Age primitives;
*none* of them can withstand more than ten minutes critical inspection from anyone with access to modern investigative resources and even the most basic grasp of the power of Occam's Razor.

however, since I live in the US, I put most of my energy into opposing the noxious, destructive efforts of the Abrahamic faith which does the most damage here, xtianity.
01:04 PM on 07/18/2011
I am a Christian. Those so-called incoherent and irrational Iron Age primitives did more to document and preserve the history and existence of Western Asian and Northern African people groups and city names than any other culture of the time. The writings and history within the Tanakh, the Jewish Bible, have provided accessible documentary evidence and clues to the existence and location of ancient peoples which only in the last 100 or so years have been proved and illuminated through archeology and which were recorded nowhere else except perhaps upon the walls of ruins and on buried clay tablets.

Occam's Razor is often expressed as a law. It is a principle, and a very helpful one generally.

Apply Occam's Razor to this question: Is it rational to posit that a coherent collection of ancient documents that has consistently correctly identified and documented ancient peoples and locations could be considered reliable and worthy of further study and consideration?

Yes.
01:14 PM on 07/18/2011
I will not dispute that there are those who wear the name Christian who are indeed noxious and destructive, however I say that those do dishonor to the name of Christ Jesus and take His name in vain. But I must say that there are many more who claim the name of Jesus Christ as savior who follow His teachings closely and who do far more good in His name than those whom you describe above do bad. So if you oppose the first group do you also support the ones who do pleasant, constructive, healing and beneficial works?

I must ask another question: Is a philosophy, system, or religion better disproved by its abuses or better proved by its closest adherents? I suggest that it is the latter, not the former. It is my hope that you would soon meet and get to know some of the latter, and to perhaps come to work alongside them to do good.
02:06 PM on 07/17/2011
The 5 books of Moses aren't. Moses never wrote in Babylonian, after all, he was Egyptian, and biblical/modern Hebrew uses Babylonian letters. Hebrew is in fact the Babylonian of Nebuchadnezzar, who conquered Judah and carted the Jews to Babylon, leaving the crazy wailing Jeremiah behind in the ashes of Jerusalem.

Jeremiah is my favorite character, an actor. He saved the old writings before the Temple of Solomon was burned, and hid them and others he had written in the destroyed Temple before he died, so that they could be later found.

Jeremiah did not write in Babylonian. He lived his whole life in Judea. Clearly there was an older written language which Moses and Jeremiah shared, that has vanished today.

And lo! Cyrus (Koresh or cHoresh) the Great of Persia (Iran) allows the Jews to return, and lo! Ezra finds the old books in the Temple ruins. Ezra learns to read the old writings, and writes a new Torah in the vernacular - Babylonian. And adds the Babylonian myths to the beginning.

Genesis is the Babylonian Cosmogenesis and Biogenesis, and the Garden of Eden is near Babylon. "Elohim" refers to the Babylonian pantheon, and Ia (Yah) is the Babylonian god who saved man from El (head of the pantheon) when El sent the flood.

That just covers the 6 books (5 "of" Moses and Jeremiah). Whew!

The rest are clearly historical, documenting (with the sacred traditions of embellishment, outright lies and propaganda) the Kings and Judges of Israel and Judah.
10:01 PM on 07/17/2011
read Daniel the golden man statue the King wanted his citizens to worship as their god, Daniel refused, The golden statue of a man represents all great empires to come, foretold and all will fall every one of them. Nations long ago ruled by orally not till men took pen to hand did all divisions chaos enter. God is not a God of chaos but a God of order. Know who is speaking when reading the bible. Speaks of the good God and speaks of the false god. Were good Kings and bad Kings. Each choose their own masters. Those who served the good Master prosper, those who did not their empires fell.
12:29 AM on 07/18/2011
funny for a god who created the universe (ie everything) is not a god of chaos - after all he sure created a lot of it. i conclude chaos is fundamental, important and perhaps beautiful. i am not a big fan of order. law and order is an excuse to commit human rights atrocities. whenever someone gives me an order, i run away. bring me chaos. war of course is order, not chaos. follow the orders of the general, or he will order you shot. as with all worthy things, perhaps order and chaos together form a useful and beautiful whole.
01:52 PM on 07/17/2011
There is no "The Bible". The author conflates the Jewish Bible (Old Testament) with the Christian Bible (New Testament). But even there there is no clear cutting. The Modern Jewish Bible was canonized by Rabbi Akiva during the Hadrian Holocaust (he was killed by Hadrian for teaching Torah). For instance, the Books of Maccabees are NOT in the Jewish Canon, since Rabbi Akiva rejected them, they are in the Catholic Canon. I'm not sure if the Hebrew Books of Maccabees even survive.

The Christian Bible came out of a Jewish Holocaust, the brutal Roman occupation of Judea (over a million Jews killed) that ended with the expulsion of the Jews. Many Jews thought such destruction meant the end times, and dreamed of a Messiah to save them. Judea was not saved. Roman victory was total. But of course, Israel and Judea had fallen many times in the past, and Israel vanished in about 700BC conquered by Assyria. It is interesting to note that Rabbi Akiva thought Bar Kochba to be the Jewish Messiah, like some did of Yeshua (Jesus) 80 years earlier. Both failed to expel Rome. Both were killed by Rome for treason. Both failed in the imagined Messianic mission of the day.
10:09 PM on 07/17/2011
agree Messiah does not mean savior, only God is our savior and only when HE comes, no one knows. Messiah is a Greek Hebrew word which means-anointed one, there were many messiahs long before Jesus came. They are messengers of God, servants of God.  John Baptize was a Messiah, many Kings were Messiah, Priests are Messiah for all are anointed by oil. Jesus did not speak of rising from the dead, but sternly came to warn, announce obey the commandments if one wants to enter the Kingdom, which being and coming from the blood Line of King David, Israelite following strickly all the Judah Laws given by Moses, and uses Deut when rebuking others, and in his sayings. John Baptize was a Messiah came to preach repent repent, Jesus came after him. God said HE would send first his 2 witnesses. Before the great day of his wrath. There is a Lord who is servant and master over others, then there is the Lord God master over all. Many also were called Lords, but not Lord God.
12:46 AM on 07/18/2011
I am not the last expert on these words, but I am studied. I disagree that either Messiah or Christ has anything to do with anointment, that is modern propaganda. The Hebrews and Greeks used olive oil for anointing, and olive in Hebrew is zeitun, olive oil is shemen ziyt. To anoint or one who is anointed is shahman, from which we get "shaman" in English.

Hebrew often substitutes a cHet for a Hay to make a related word. Mashiach (Messiah) is too close to Moshe (Moses) for me not to notice. I believe that the yearning for a leader such as Moses gave rise to the word.

As for Christ, it is too close to "crossed" for me not to notice. There is a very beautiful Hebrew word "L'ha'criz" (L=infinitive, ha=the) which means "to announce". From which we get crow (and crow's nest), perhaps crazy, perhaps cross, and IMO almost certainly Krist, the announcer.
01:03 AM on 07/25/2011
So you're saying there is no such thing as the bible?
How bizarre.
12:49 PM on 07/17/2011
The bible was used as a tool for teaching. Unfortunately to many people have taken it literally.
Kind of like when you get trekkies, harry potter fans, or star wars fans that actually believe it to be real.
12:59 AM on 07/18/2011
The Old Testament was canonized by Rabbi Akiva for a particular purpose. He understood the enormity of the tragedy that the Romans had foisted upon the Jews, and understood that the expulsion would last a very long time, certainly as long as Rome was supreme. He asked this question: How do we preserve the people and their language without the land so that one day they should remember to return? His answer is rather remarkable, in that 2,000 years later his dream was fulfilled. He created a religion that had as its center love of Torah and love of Eretz Yisrael, the land of Israel, and of course, worship thrice daily and 5x on Shabbat facing Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish holidays are Israel-centric. Judaism sustained itself with Torah and without the land for 2,000 years, always vowing thrice daily to return. "If I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand forget its cunning." (This from the Babylonian exile!)
12:09 PM on 07/17/2011
The bible came from the minds of some fantastic story tellers. What makes more sense? A human woman was impregnated by a mystical being who sent someone else to break the news to her? Or, the girlfriend of a caring, but gullible, man got busy with the neighbor and came up with the greatest story of them all – virgin birth. “So, Joseph, you aren’t going to believe this, but there was this angel, you see…” Poor Joseph, he deserved better.
06:11 PM on 07/17/2011
The first sin recorded in the Bible is the sin of un-belief. It is minds like this that will face their creator at the judgement day. But again they do not believe in an accouting of their words and deeds while here on this earth. My friend I will meet you at the judgement, the only difference is I am a born again believer.
02:15 AM on 07/18/2011
LOL - Born again believers are statistically more likely to have a lower-IQ than even their believing counter-parts, and your brazen support for ignorance and blind faith over free-thought suggests its truthin this circumstance.
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BornOKtheFirstTime
pedicabo ego vos et irrumabo
06:27 PM on 07/19/2011
Allah's watching you. If you have not been following the prophethood of Muhammed, your judgment day may not turn out as you had hoped!
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Brooke123456
God is ....(fill in the blank how you like)
02:15 AM on 07/19/2011
Third option, no mary or joseph ever existed and the story was made up after the fact.