On the subway recently, a man near me rushed to sit when someone got up. I was a little taken aback, as I'm used to men giving up seats to women. Then a man boarding the train made a quick dash to sit down. This change in etiquette was surprising. My first thought was even more surprising -- good for you!
They both looked drained. One carried several packages. While several women gave them dirty looks, I thought about double standards. Why shouldn't men be able to sit down if they're tired? Why should they feel obligated to let a woman sit just because she's female? Older or pregnant women? Sure! I've given my seat to old men. But a healthy woman should have no extra dibbs on one.
Women want equal rights, but some expect old standards to prevail when it suits their needs. I wanted a seat but would never expect a man to give me his. I've even turned down offers from a guy ready to get up for me because I feel they have a right to comfort too. We can't have it both ways. We fight to be equals but...
It doesn't serve us well in the long run to waffle selectively between expecting traditional courtesies we like and new liberated standards to feel more equal, depending on which we like in different situations. Women who want equality need to adjust expectations fairly. There are many men who like being more traditional, and it's fine to enjoy being with one. But if we want to be treated as equals, traditional behavior should be optional. I get angry when I hear a woman who has complained about not getting promoted as fast as a man then complain that a guy she had dinner with asked her to split the check. Hello! Either we want equal rights or not. It shouldn't just be a sometimes mentality, depending on what we'd like in the moment.
It's also not good to go completely in the other direction to prove you're an equal. I've heard women indignantly declare that they won't let a man hold the door for them. Men tell me they've had women balk when they tried to open the car door. This attitude proves no point! I like when a man I'm out with holds the door but I'll hold one for him too. It's consideration, not a sexist issue! Nowadays, I think in terms of what seems courteous, not what's expected for a man or woman.
Like me, many women were brought up experiencing men who paid for dinner, opened doors, watched out for us as protectors, deferred for seats, etc. It's time for us to let go of those expectations. Many men still feel more comfortable adhering to traditions and that's okay. I do enjoy being with one who wants to make me feel special. But I try to give the courtesy back. While men have been uncomfortable when I hold the door, they also appreciated the gesture.
If a guy I'm dating insists on paying when we go out, I'll make dinner another time. Once after going out for dinner with a guy I was dating, we decided to get ice cream. I paid before he could. I still remember how uncomfortable he was at first. Then he acted like I'd just bought him a gold watch and thanked me several times for an ice cream cone! He wasn't used to a woman treating him to anything and it made him feel special. I didn't do it to prove something. I just wanted to show that I appreciated him.
We must be careful not to go too far in either direction -- being a woman who wants tradition when that tradition suits her, or aggressively fighting traditional behavior by making a big fuss to pay your share of dinner or not walking through a door that's held by a man. Etiquette is evolving. Expectations about what the opposite sex "should" do still needs to be adjusted more. And men who insist on following their traditional upbringing shouldn't be criticized, unless their behavior is demeaning.
As I came home on the subway last night, an older man stood next to the only empty seat and gestured for me to take it. I gestured back that he should. He smiled and gave me a look that said, "Sit!" I did and saw he felt good about it. We actually exchanged "Have a good night" when I got off. Traditional manners aren't wrong. It doesn't necessarily mean the guy thinks you're not as good as he is. That's just how many men were brought up. There's no need to fight it. But it should be considered a nice extra, not something you expect if you do want to be treated as an equal in other areas, especially career ones.
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This is the general rule I live by as well. Also, if a man treats me out I will treat him out the next time or make him dinner the next time. Or if he pays for dinner Ill get the tip and dessert, or those and drinks at the next place we go or whatever.
I think some women just have internal conflict over what their philosophy is (modern woman) and what they have been taught their entire lives (traditional gender roles via chivalry).
A- logically, it's not, but....shhhhhh.
Do you seriously feel rewarded when you expect a woman to do extra chores??? What a romantic you are -sarcasm-
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/faq-female-privilege/
What utter tripe.
No wonder you girls are so angry and confused if you can't see through that bunk...
THAT is having it both ways.
And for holding and opening doors ? Most men know that women rarely if ever will hold a door for a man when following them into a store. It is strange how quickly many females will let a door slam after them even though they can see your reflection in the door directly after them.
Women lost their seat on the bus or train as those days are over due to the sperm donor, take the trash out mentality of some women. I do believe we should all be couteous of one another but women believing a men sd jump out of their seat so they can sit down after a hard day of strutting the office in heals and cleavage ?
I've never noticed any gender disparity here. Some people are rude and some aren't. The joys of city life.
As you can see by some of the replies, there's a lot of difference of opinion as to why men open doors, give up their seat, hold a chair for a woman, and any of the other little courtesies. For most men that still do these things it is a matter of respect. I open the car door for my wife, I hold doors for her, she walks on the inside of the sidewalk, I always paid for our dates; I didn't/don't do these things with any expectations at all, no need for any quid pro quo, I did them because I respected her as a woman and later cherished her as my partner.
I want to be with a woman who both respects herself and others, and who refuses to settle for men who won't display common respect and courtesy. Doesn't seem to be a lot of that going around nowadays.
It's that simple.
"Stand in your arms without falling to your feet."
Thank you
PS In all my years I've never been in the restroom when a handicapped person came in.
I recently had an experience at a rest area on NY Rt. 17. I had been having terrible back and shoulder pain, due to a pinched nerve in my neck. I HAD to get out of the car at the rest stop and do one yoga stretch (along with my business). It was winter, so I didn't want to do it outside, and anyway, I didn't want people watching me, so I chose the handicapped stall in a completely empty bathroom. I did my business quickly, then did the 30 second stretch. When I came out of the handicapped stall, a very large woman with a cane was standing there waiting, giving me a seething look.
My upbringing almost prompted me to apologize, then I decided not to, because geez, I have a right to use the stall too.
let's look at the whole picture. Being equal may mean that you pay your way and your own laundry.
If he gets there first, will he open the door and stand outside to let me go by? Will he open the door, but enter first, and do that crazy stretch to keep it open for me? Will he ignore me completely? If I get there first and open the door for him, will he enter, or will he grab the door from me?
I ALWAYS thank him audibly if he holds it open in whatever fashion... that other poster who says women ignore him, those women are just plain rude.
By the way I make absolutely no judgments, no matter what he decides to do. It's just interesting. :) I expect we'll get more predictable as the generations go on, but who knows?