Have you seen the photo of the FLDS spiritual leader, 51-year-old Warren Jeffs, cradling in his arms and deeply kissing -- and we're talking about a "wedding"-type kiss here -- a then twelve-year-old girl?
The photo was introduced on Friday in the custody case of an infant born two weeks ago to Louisa Bradshaw Jessop, and fathered by Dan Jessop, who is the brother of the girl Jeffs is passionately kissing. Maybe it was meant to jog the memory of the witness, Louisa, who responded, "I don't know," or "I can't remember right now," to nearly every question posed to her, including how long she'd been at the ranch and who lived in her household.
What did you think was happening in those big happy polygamous families? Anyone who's ever left the cult has written about their main religious belief -- The Principle of Plural Marriage -- and the abuse that it engenders. It's vitally important in the FLDS culture for a man to have at least a Quorum of wives (3 is the minimum) in order to enjoy the benefits of the heavenly kingdom; he really needs at least seven wives to be considered an important member of the priesthood and the community.
As for that kiss in the photo possibly being anything other than a wedding kiss? A man in FLDS can have physical contact with a female only if they are married. Period.
Judge Walther acknowledged that she'd been criticized for not allowing enough evidence to be let in during the initial hearing in April. With the Appellate Court's decision hanging over her head, she has announced, "We're going to have a full blown adversarial hearing. If it takes two to three days, we're going to do it."
I have a feeling this case is far from over yet.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/30/us/30raid.html?ref=us
Texas Supreme court sided with the FLDS, CPS was out of line and went too far too fast.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2008/05/what-does-texas.html
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Maybe, rather than focusing on the family arrangements of an isolated Texas religious sect, we should be asking ourselves what was wrong with this picture: Even as CPS was herding the last of the FLDS girls off to distant foster care facilities late last month, American Internet users were so eager to see Annie Liebovitz's revealing Vanity Fair photos of 15-year-old Miley Cyrus that the magazine's website crashed.
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1) By some accounts the group was engaged in systematic attempts to hide the childrens' ages, identities, and parentages, so as to make any investigation into child abuse of a single child or a few children impossible without removal of all the children.
2) Any citizen or group of citizens operating within the borders of the US owes to this country a certain minimum level of what I'll call "good citizenship". That includes adequately educating and caring for their children, at least a portion of whom will leave the commune and enter the wider world where skills other than spouting a good prayer or hoeing a straight row will be essential.
3) This commune, though it enjoys many benefits of the American commons, not the least of which is the assurance that the American military will prevent an invasion by foreign armies, has set up what amounts to its own sovereign state, surrounded by an iron curtain.
4) What goes on between consenting adults might be weird, but it's their business. When it comes to legitimizing and institutionalizing adult sex with underaged girls, it's another matter.
5) What the hell do you think happens to illicit drug users' children, or the children of bookies, or those operating illegal chop shops? They aren't all "abused children" in the stereotypical sense, but go into foster care temporarily, too! Why aren't you upset over that?
2- This has what to do with anything? According to CPS the kids were not abused or neglected other than the matters of different opinion of the FLDS and government of Texas about marriage and maybe age of consent (FYI the number of teen mothers with kid is at or under the average for the state of Texas once you use the correct ages.). They are claiming that a significantly different point of view on such matters is child abuse, and that crosses the line of the first amendment.
3- If you have any evidence of that, show it.
4- agree, but changing the laws as to what is underage in order to try and entrap people of a specific religion is dirty pool, and religious bigotry. The author of the Texas bill changing the age of consent from 14 to 17 specifically aimed it at the FLDS and admits it.
5- I have seen no new charges (Jeffs was in prison at the time of the raid) on any crime made about any of the parents of the FLDS kids. So much for that argument.
I'm sure some crimes have been committed in the FLDS community, just as have been committed in any small town in America. But just because of one or a few reports of child abuse, it is not justified to take away all the children in a town. As a resident of Texas, I resent what I and other taxpayers will be forced to pay in damages resulting from the scores of successful lawsuits that will follow this ill-thought-out application of child protection laws.
It's clearly Warren Jeffs, and it's clearly a very young girl. Check it out.
I agree the images are pretty upsetting, but I stand by my assessment of the indiscriminate mass abduction of children by state authorities as an irrational over-reaction. I agree Jeffs should be in prison (which is where he is, by the way), but I don't agree that children should be taken away from their parents in an entire town without child-specific evidence of abuse.
I find it interesting that you have chosen to make comments back at people who both agree and disagree with you.
I am neither a FLDS member nor do I advocate their lifestyle. I just take exception with your article on two fronts. 1) You are trying to stoke hysteria, a la Nancy Grace, interpreting a photograph in such a lewd, unflattering way. And 2) according to people like you and Ms. Grace, a person is guilty until proven innocent.
It's clear from the sarcastic tone to your article that you have already passed judgment. And don't bother responding to THIS thread, I already have an opinion about people like you that won't be changed by anything you say. This is classic religious intolerance, and you're using child abuse as an excuse to stoke hysteria.
Why don't you write something about the Catholic Church? Now, that was a proven case.
The court has ruled that the children be returned to their parents. Now, what do you suppose they based that ruling on?
I was also disturbed by the way the authorities pulled these kids away from the only home they know, away from their Mom's and into foster care with a bunch of strangers. A proper investigation should have been done first; no matter how difficult that may have been.
But, I think there is more than enough evidence to support taking a close look at these groups and the way they've been treating children for a long time. I'm all for religious freedom, but it can't be used as an excuse for mistreatment; not for FLDS, the Catholic church, or any other religion.
I'm wondering; do you not believe that the marrying of underage girls to older men takes place here?
ps...i think comparing Ms. King to that loudmouth, antagonizing Nancy Grace (shudder) is a bit harsh. She makes reference to her own family history with sexual abuse in one of the earlier posts. She is probably just sensitive to this issue.
The court has not ruled in favor of the state of Texas thus far in the latest case.
There are plenty of examples of older men marrying young, "underaged" women, and nothing is done to them. Google it if you don't believe that.
Deborah King has passed judgment on the entire sect on the basis of Warren Jeffs; she has presented no evidence in this latest case of child abuse. I was once foreman of a jury in a child abuse case, and three of the women on the jury had been abused. FLDS is not the only place we should be looking, but if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit.
Talk is cheap - what facts are there to support the removal of infants from the care of their parents.
Talk is cheap - what facts are there to support any allegations of abuse - not hear say crap - facts????
Everyone wants separation of church and state - then keep them separated.
Should the constitution be ignored because of what people "think" is going on???
Think about it folks.
Let the courts do their job - that is what they are for.
Stop spreading rumors and lies about what goes on in these places - get the facts and stop the gossip.
Taking peoples children away from them based on rumors is just plain stupid.
Believing what the media is claiming borders on stupid - they need to up their ratings.
Get a grip - breath deeply - and allow the judges to sort the mess out.
Child abuse is often used by these fanatics; but if they're so concerned, all they have to do is go to any large city and see the "protected" children walking the streets. What hypocrites. The witch hunt mentality is still alive and well.
Wedding style kiss - now that isn't a provocative header is it?
That's all I have to say.
When I see this picture it turns my stomach and makes me think about how these young women will re-integrate back into society if they ever get out of their mind controlled state.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...........
Ick!
I hope this doesn't start a trend in news reporting.
Polygamy among consenting adults is going to happen no matter what the church or state has to say.
But, a bunch of greedy old men breeding each other's concubines and using them as bargaining chips is not polygamy. It's expoitation, child abuse and a form of human trafficking.
I don't think most of us have any real problem with a bunch of people that want to live in a community apart from society, or even with the concept of plural marriage.
What consenting adults do is really their own business; as long as they're not hurting others.
But these people are hurting kids, and it's gone on far too long.
Polygamy is not a harmless business, be it within the FDLS, or within Islam. If they are going to make such a deal about it within the FDLS, then when are they going to take it on among Muslims here in the United States? I understand that it is common within Somalis here in the U.S., and within many Muslims here in the U. S., forced marriage is still common.
I say, if you go after one group, then go after the others, as well.
And REALLY prosecute the leaders who are encouraging these actions through threats and intimidation.
And what about the welfare fraud? These cults have also been ripping off the welfare system HUGE. All the while, not paying any taxes, because they are a "religion" after all.