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Deepak Chopra

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Is There Any Definition of Spirituality That Science Could Ever Accept?

Posted: 09/25/11 06:10 PM ET

Deepak answers questions about the nature of spiritual knowledge, self-awareness and science. These questions are from readers of book "War of the Worldviews: Science vs. Spirituality" by Deepak Chopra and Leonard Mlodinow.

 
 
 

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06:40 AM on 10/10/2011
And you think that science knows it all.. You haven't even scratched the surface and science never will
01:49 PM on 09/30/2011
When we perceive that the only difference between us is our beliefs and that beliefs can be created or discreated with ease, the right and the wrong game will wind down, a co-create game will unfold and world peace will ensue. Our perceptions are filtered throught our beliefs and therefore we each percieve according to our belief about a subject.
04:29 PM on 09/30/2011
I would be grateful for your thoughts regarding what the standard for conflict resolution would be in the society apparently envisioned in Sandy R Killgo 09/30/2011 01:49pm.
04:47 PM on 09/29/2011
Produce something, then we will define it. Put something where your mouth is!
01:36 PM on 09/29/2011
From a purely materialist, mechanistic perspective, all subjective—noetic—experience arises from physical matter, and consciousness is simply a byproduct of brain and body processes. But there is another perspective, suggesting a far more complex relationship between the physical and the nonphysical. The noetic sciences apply a scientific lens to the study of subjective experience and to ways that consciousness may influence the physical world, and the data to date have raised plenty of provocative new questions.

IONS sees noetic science as a growing field of valid inquiry. Every new discovery leads to more questions as the mystery of human consciousness slowly unfolds. In the areas of consciousness and healing, extended human capacities, and worldview transformation, IONS keeps pushing the boundaries of what we know, advancing our shared understanding of consciousness and why it matters in the 21st century.
01:34 PM on 09/29/2011
The term noetic sciences was first coined in 1973 when the Institute of Noetic Sciences (IONS) was founded by Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell, who two years earlier became the sixth man to walk on the moon. Ironically, it was the trip back home that Mitchell recalls most, during which he felt a profound sense of universal connectedness—what he later described as a samadhi experience. In Mitchell’s own words, “The presence of divinity became almost palpable, and I knew that life in the universe was not just an accident based on random processes.
It led him to conclude that reality is more complex, subtle, and mysterious than conventional science had led him to believe. Perhaps a deeper understanding of consciousness (inner space) could lead to a new and expanded understanding of reality in which objective and subjective, outer and inner, are understood as co-equal aspects of the miracle of being. It was this that led Dr. Mitchell to launch the field of noetic sciences. There are several ways we can know the world around us. Science focuses on external observation and is grounded in objective evaluation, measurement, and experimentation. This is useful in increasing objectivity and reducing bias and inaccuracy as we interpret what we observe. another way of knowing is subjective or internal, including gut feelings, intuition, and hunches— or experiences you have that cannot be explained or proven “rationally” but feel absolutely real. This way of knowing is what we call noetic.
12:55 PM on 09/29/2011
SPIRITUALITY AND SCIENCE--THE HALOGRAPHIC UNIVERSE

This very, very exciting article actually gives a scientific theory behind many spiritual viewpoints and spiritual experiences, including enlightenment and the perception of oneness encountered by many people that have had strong spiritual experiences.

It all started 1982 at the University of Paris. A research team led by physicist Alain Aspect performed what may turn out to be one of the most important experiments of the 20th century. Aspect and his team discovered that under certain circumstances subatomic particles such as electrons are able to instantaneously communicate with each other regardless of the distance separating them. After this, it didn’t take long before the idea of a holographic universe was created. But the implications of this are truly mind boggling…
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Vincent Hayden
11:36 PM on 09/28/2011
I don't think it's in the job description of science to accept something like spirituality. We don't really have the technology to measure spirit. I think it would be great if they did, then we'd know we're more than bio-electo-chemical mechanisms.
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02:13 PM on 09/28/2011
Dr Chopra has written laudable books on self healing and self motivation among others, that I have read myself. He is an eloquent speaker and has a blog site called intent blog (free publicity). What I have admired is the way he shows people that they are not prisoners of set doctrines and that they are free to explore other fields of spirituality. In his early works, he stressed that we all have in us the necessary force to deal with the universe around us however small or infinite.
Biologically, we need a certain amount of irrationality (dreams, concepts, etc.) for our inner harmony. Our brains are wired for irrationality and rationality (right and left hemispheres, in short). But we mustn’t let irrationality dominate rationality; the dream must not become our reality.
Dr Chopra is a confessed Theleologist and now imprisoned within a Religion, and no longer but a spiritual guide to irrational, individual and personal harmony. What is worse is that he wants to dominate the dream by making it Science. In short, like Michael Shermer said on a Youtube discussion with Chopra and Harris, Dr Chopra is now packaging his spirituality with “WooWoo” to make it sound scientific which it is not and will never be. Helas.
Science, by definition, does not deal in the supernatural.
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03:10 PM on 09/28/2011
Alas... (not Helas)...Sorry for the typo.
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Saijanai
Micro bio? We don't need no stinkin' micro bio...
12:32 AM on 09/30/2011
Chopra's earliest books (except the very first) were ghost written for him by people in the TM organization. They copied his speaking style and he put his name on them because his job, at that time, was to make Maharishi Ayurveda a household word. After he left the TM organization, he rewrote his books, deleted his teacher's name from them -even from the dedication- and reinvented himself as a New Age guru. He went from giving lectures on behalf of the non-profit Maharishi Ayurveda Foundation, charging $10,000 per lecture (check made out to the MAF) + expenses, to charging many times that much, check made out to the for-profit Chopra Foundation, and bragging that he donates 10% of his earnings to charity.

And you guys eat him up.
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11:30 AM on 09/30/2011
Dear Saijani,

Thank you for all of these details that I was ignorant of.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "you guys eat him up". If you mean that I relish his writings and philosophy,... I don't. I admired his early style and his enthusiasm for a self quest of one's own reality.
If you mean that I overly criticize him, it is only when he tries to make his religious views fit into a scientific mold, which they cannot.
I have visited his web site just to learn that he has associated himself with engineers and scientifically connected individuals who claim to do research on such absurdities as "zero energy, immaterial, invisible, quantum, infinite, potential conscious fields", or something of the like. If these people are paid good foundation moneys to search for something you cannot see, smell, feel and that is but a vague potential, all the better for them, but it is not science; that is my only beef.
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aidbo
We are a way for the cosmos to know itself. -CS
02:07 PM on 09/28/2011
I hate to anthropomorphize, but science doesn't care about spirituality.
(It can't. Science, like fish, doesn't have any feelings)

Why do some feel there is a need for science to "accept" spirituality?
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Kiri the Unicorn
53 miles west of Venus
06:57 PM on 09/27/2011
Okay, how about this:

Spirituality is the impulse (and the effort) to locate and define ourselves emotionally in respect to the universe. Religion can be viewed in this light as being only a context for the enactment and exploration of spirituality: a stage, some sets, some props and costumes.
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Vincent Hayden
11:38 PM on 09/28/2011
I would say in respect to existence as well.
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Kiri the Unicorn
53 miles west of Venus
06:33 AM on 09/29/2011
Yes, thank you. I'll have to figure out how to work that idea into the wording of what is rapidly becoming one of my stock answers!
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Grada3784
God is a Parent, not an abuser.
10:28 AM on 09/27/2011
Sure is. One that doesn't masquerade as science without following science's rules.
06:30 AM on 09/28/2011
Spirituality is about getting to the source of our consciousness. As Jesus said "The kingdom of God is within you". Science's rules are measurement and 3rd person observation, and our conscious experience is not subject to those. So the rules of science don't strictly apply. In fact, science cannot even recognize that our consciousness even exists. But it’s the one thing we're 100% sure does exist, whereas this physicality we perceive can be illusory.
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Grada3784
God is a Parent, not an abuser.
07:21 AM on 09/28/2011
That's nice, but has nothing to do with my comment. How did you miss the masquerade as science part?
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Vincent Hayden
11:40 PM on 09/28/2011
That's right, if they can't see it, touch it or sense it in some fashion or measure it - it doesn't exist in their purview.
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el sistema
08:15 AM on 09/27/2011
This seems more like word games. Making the assertions that science cannot explain joy, self-awareness, purpose etc. All of these questions invoke emotions when answered and each are subjective to the individual.

First of all asserting science cannot answer these questions has science generalized into one compartment. The medical sciences of Neurology, Physiology, Psychology etc. can help answer self-awareness which is consciousness and how the brain maintains a conscious state, our emotions and the illusion of purpose.

Second, spirituality is different for everyone and doesn't answer any question. It only asks questions. Very similar to metaphysics or philosophy. It's as if it's sign to a path that takes different directions depending on who you are. Nothing conclusive and nothing definitive. It's perception coupled with an emotional response.
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Dan Jighter
04:33 AM on 09/27/2011
"Is There Any Definition of Spirituality That Science Could Ever Accept?"

Science has no problem accepting spirituality, the fact that some people have spiritual experiences or make a practice out of such experiences. Only science doesn't automatically associate spirituality with the supernatural. Spirituality is a psychological and anthropological phenomenon. If you want to claim spirituality is something more, you need evidence.

There are plenty of people who ask questions like "What do I want?" "What sort of contribution do I want to make to the world?" without engaging in spiritual practices such as meditating in a cave for weeks or at least meditating regularly. These are secular questions that don't need religion or spirituality to consider. Also note such questions are not scientific questions since many of them are questions about personal preference. Thus the answers to the questions aren't hypotheses, they are personal preferences and opinions. Science can't tell you whether to wear the blue shirt or the red shirt, it's entirely up to you. The claim that "The blue shirt is better than the red one." is not a scientific hypothesis, it is just an opinion. If you are trying to decide between various options on how to contribute to society, that's largely up to you.

Why must people associate such questions with spirituality? And why must spirituality be linked with the supernatural? As someone who is good without spirituality, I don't get it.
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Redhunteur
If I damn yer POV will u turn the other cheek?
08:11 AM on 09/27/2011
Brilliantly said. I would refan you if I could.

"Spirituality" is such a nebulous concept and the connections to a god or a specific god are... well, what's a looser term than nebulous? Whatever the word it's that in spades.

Do people feel something they refer to as "spirituality"? Yes. That doesn't make it real or make it anything, however. I've felt apprehension for unknown reasons but it was ultimately unwarranted. Just because I don’t know the exact reasons for those feelings really doesn’t mean jack-all, especially not in relation to unseen forces or gods.

I know that what people claim are spiritual forces can be measured on brain imaging equipment. But then again, human thought processes can also cause bleeding wounds to appear on peoples’ palms, can create hives and even bleeding stomach ulcers. Attributing divine forces to them doesn’t make them magic or celestial or the signature of a specific deity.

I get it; people get these “I just know it” feelings and convince their already eager mind to go along with their preconceived notions. That’s more likely the result of brain chemistry and it’s a mightly long way to go to “the christian god verified he is real.”
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Kiri the Unicorn
53 miles west of Venus
07:14 PM on 09/27/2011
Dan, I think it might be as simple as you, yourself not really having much "drive" in that direction.
You don't "get it" because you don't really need it.
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Dan Jighter
08:01 PM on 09/27/2011
What drive would that be specifically?

I think most people don't really need spirituality nor are even all that spiritual or religious. They just say they are spiritual or believe there is a God for the sake of being polite and a good person. (See what Daniel Dennett says about faith in faith.)
12:52 AM on 09/27/2011
No group of human beings has ever been discovered that has not had some kind of 'spirituality'. True these often take bizarre forms, but the fact that it is universal throughout history provides a mass of experiential data which cannot be ignored. And please don't wheel out the argument that spirituality is entirely due to man's attempts to answer the anomalies of the physical world. Human beings have not always been of scientific turn of mind, because scientific age is a comparatively modern development. If this mass of evidence of human spiritual experience is rejected merely because it cannot be explained by scientific research, this betrays the a priori assumption that "Nothing can exist which is not part of the physical universe". By definition there are no grounds for this statement by science because if there is a spiritual reality then no physical evidence of it can can exist.
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MagicManDoneIt
When facts are lacking. Just say...
04:48 AM on 09/27/2011
Because you don't want anyone to wheel out the argument that spirituality is due to man's attempts to answer the anomalies of the physical world doesn't mean it isn't a very good argument. Actually, human beings have always been of a scientific turn of mind, curious about the world and attempting to understand it through experience and experiment is as old as civilization itself, actually much older. Depending upon the spiritual experience, the label evidence may not fit. All experiences are subject to being explained. Unwarranted and unsupported explanations that defy our current understanding of the universe are much more likely to be dismissed. This is where evidence is crucial. If you are going to claim that a spiritual reality exists but there is no way to gather evidence of it then I do reject your claim out of hand because something that exists and cannot be observed is indistinguishable from something that doesn't exist in the first place.
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Vincent Hayden
11:45 PM on 09/28/2011
Kind of like before we invented the telescope and the microscope which showed us all new dimensions in our universe. But what we can see now, wasn't observable then.
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SocBeat
Bald and proud
12:57 PM on 09/28/2011
"And please don't wheel out the argument that spirituali­ty is entirely due to man's attempts to answer the anomalies of the physical world. "

Why does the sun come up in the east, move across the sky and set in the west every day? And please don't wheel out the argument that the Earth is rotating on its axis.
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PresReagan
...... thinking
11:22 PM on 09/26/2011
The answers are at mormon.org
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JayBachand
03:02 PM on 09/27/2011
Was that the wrong link? I just found a bunch of laughable fictions and silly superstitions on that site.
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12:38 PM on 09/28/2011
Ohhhhh buuuurrrrrnnnnnnnnnn