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Deepak Chopra

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The Problem With Socrates

Posted: 06/29/11 08:22 AM ET

I was one of many readers intrigued by a recent op-ed piece in The New York Times about finding out who we really are. Under the title, "In Search of the True Self," the piece was by an associate professor at Yale, Joshua Knobe, who attempts something very ambitious. He wants to solve the dilemma that humans are divided between our civilized and our animal nature. The question is far from abstract. Sexual drives have brought down governors and congressmen; violence in the form of terrorism obsesses us; and thousands of deaths by gunshot every year are part of the background of American life. So much for the animal side. On the civilized side we have philosophers pushing the value of reason over passion, the doctrine of "know thyself," and Freud's argument that civilization cannot exist without paying the price of suppressed unconscious drives, most particularly sex and violence.

Knobe makes the issue more personal by giving the example of a fundamentalist preacher who has devoted himself to a crusade against homosexuality, taking the common position among fundamentalist Christians that gay sex is a sin and the "gay lifestyle" is against God's commandments. The wrinkle is that this particular preacher is himself gay and has fought against his sexual inclinations his entire life. Thus, for one man the ancient doctrine of "know thyself," says Knobe, reaches a fork in the road. If the true self is rational, this man is obeying his true self by living according to higher values -- his Christianity -- instead of giving in to animal drives. (The preacher, who admits that he sometimes loathes his attraction to other men, takes this self-hatred as a good sign, since it is in accord with God's own attitudes).

On the other hand, many modern people find such a position abhorrent. They would argue that the preacher's true self can be found by stripping away the veneer of moral judgments and giving in to the impulses that it takes such effort and self-denial to suppress. If the preacher were out and proud, for example, he would be expressing who he really is. Clearly there is no agreement on the true self, which brings up what philosophers call the Socratic problem. We owe to Socrates, who lived in the age of Pericles in fifth century BCE Athens, our Western admiration for reason. Faced with a society where each person had his own opinions about everything, Socrates went from citizen to citizen (he would talk to anybody, rich or poor) and asked them basic questions about their beliefs. At first the questions seemed innocent, but by the end of the discussion, Socrates had unearthed the illogical or prejudicial basis of things held to be true. The person could see, by the light of reason that the truth was far different from what he supposed. Socrates' method was to outwit ignorance by calling on the higher faculty of rationality.

Ever since, up to the triumphant rise of science, enlightenment has been equated with reason and ignorance with unreason. So what is the problem with Socrates? It is that Socrates himself was also a champion of un-reason. He said that he had a mysterious inner voice that told him when he was doing wrong (his daemon), and that this voice had a divine source. Socrates was famous for his traditional worship of the Greek gods. In addition, he revered the inspired state known as divine madness. Divine madness was something to be valued highly, because it was the source of art, music, love, the imagination and our connection to the soul. How did Socrates balance reason and unreason? He didn't. Sometimes he speaks from one aspect of himself, sometimes from another. The Socratic problem is that when you look closely, the father of Western philosophy cannot be defined one way or the other.

Prof. Knobe has a novel idea for solving the riddle of the true self. He proposes a new field known as "experimental philosophy" that would do research into tough problems that have plagued philosophy for centuries, such as the riddle of the true self. For example, he and two colleagues at Yale asked 200 subjects a series of questions about their true selves. But a trick was involved. The questions were weighted toward a liberal and a conservative bias. The point was to see if a person's value judgments influence his ideas about the true self. Would a conservative approve of fighting against one's homosexual impulses and a liberal approve of the opposite value? Naturally. Would this give each of them a different idea of which side of human nature was the true side? Yes. People see reality through the lens of their prejudices and social beliefs. The finding isn't very startling, and I think the whole endeavor may be futile.

If you ask people who they really are, why should their answers mean much? They haven't undertaken the inner journey that Socrates was pointing toward. "Know thyself" doesn't mean taking a 30-minute quiz. It means going through a lifelong process of self-reflection, contemplation, and questioning. The point is that when this journey is taken seriously, the opposites within ourselves are resolved. The war between reason and unreason exists at many levels of the self, but it doesn't exist at the level of the true self. A river has turbulent currents until you reach the very bottom, where the water is calm and barely flows. This has been the position of the world's wisdom traditions, and the true self has gone under different names: Atman, spiritus, the soul and many others. A true experimental philosophy, which sounds like a very good idea, would test the proposition that unity lies beyond duality. That is what philosophy has tried to do since the beginning. For a conflicted gay Christian, such a journey seems far more promising that batting him around between various opinions, right and left.

I think that the Socratic problem is the result of confusion. Whether we are speaking of Jesus, Buddha or Socrates, the result of "know thyself" doesn't end in a muddle. Each of them spoke of a higher reality that could be reached, and as the journey unfolds, reason and unreason each play a part. Reason sorts out contradictions and analyzes what is happening as inner experience shifts. Its chief value is to pierce through self-delusion, just as Socrates did with his Socratic method. Unreason brings intuition and insight. Its chief purpose is to deepen one's experience until the presence of the divine is actually real. Rather than warring against each other, these two aspects of the self are allies in the battle against a common enemy: illusion. So the muddle is ours, not Socrates'. By definition an experiment that seeks to find the true self by asking 20 questions is secretly on the side of rationality, as all data collection is. The results are skewed in advance. After all, a subject who said "This is a stupid experiment. I'm outta here" would be just as true to the self as someone who sat still and obediently took the test -- maybe he would be even more true. But all such statements are secondary. The true self means little until it jumps off the page of a philosophy textbook and becomes a vocation, a vision and the ultimate goal of life.

Deepak Chopra on Intent.com
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I was one of many readers intrigued by a recent op-ed piece in The New York Times about finding out who we really are. Under the title, "In Search of the True Self," the piece was by an associate prof...
I was one of many readers intrigued by a recent op-ed piece in The New York Times about finding out who we really are. Under the title, "In Search of the True Self," the piece was by an associate prof...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
H P
Vote ABC- Anybody But Cantor
10:12 AM on 07/08/2011
Zen philosopher Dogen said in some translations: " I am not others and others are not me"
http://www.zen-deshimaru.com/EN/sangha/deshimaru/q-r/0209.htm

Descartes said, "I think, therefore I am." I say, "I do not think, that is why I exist." If you create your own categories, if you think too much, you limit your consciousness.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
chipchuck
Rethink that...
12:08 AM on 07/07/2011
Here's where I've come so far:

I am not the center of the universe.
I am less than the sum of the parts.
09:22 PM on 07/05/2011
Dear All,

To know your Self, try to Be your Self. Within the spiritual supermarke­t these days, everyone has an answer how to be .There are two emotional doors that must be opened to allow the Presence of the Self. We must find those who know and value the Presence of the Self as much as they value breath. True esoteric knowledge is elusive and often covered over with good and bad intentions­, such as the new testament.
Emotions are the key to awakening. There is a location in our emotional brain, the seat of judgement. It knows when a picture is crooked or if someone's behavior is out of wack. The location of corse humor is also a location, but it is lower. Yet the judgement location is asleep to Presence, the only key to allowing the Self to penetrate into this dimension. This emotional location must be purified(non expression of negativity for a while at least) by trying to Be Present. Wordlessness and know it.
Thus providing a location for the Self to enter through the other door. This door is inside of you dormantly. This the door to higher states. You, for the most part can not do this by your self. You can not get there by reading books unless you have a thousand years. Find those who value the state of Presence, of Remembranc­e only then can you begin.
Charles Brennan
Macquade44­(twitter)
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Jonathan Granoff
04:36 PM on 07/05/2011
Deepak again asks us, like Socrates, to dive a bit deeper than mere thoughtful speculation. Socrates asks us to learn to know in a way beyond mere sense perception and to realize a kind of knowing (gnosis) that he likened to divinity (Theaetetus 176). It is interesting that the man so associated with disciplined reason would call us to a higher plane of understanding. Plato, Socrates' student through whose eyes we learn about this great Master of Wisdom, said he did not write a lot about this kind of deep insightful knowing but that after long interaction between the teacher and student "suddenly, like light flashing forth when a fire is kindled it is born in the soul and straightaway nourishes itself." (Seventh Letter Section 341) This great treasure is the result of the pursuit of virtue which Socrates called the highest good. And how does this pursuit gain its greatest impetus: "For God mingles not with man; but through Love...The wisdom which understands this is spiritual; all other wisdom ... is mean and vulgar." (Symposium 202). It is knowing ourselves at this deep level, where divine nourishment flows upon us through the agency of divine love that Socrates sought to awaken. This requires supreme self honesty and courageous reflection. It requires authentic inner work.
Knowing oneself means knowing the one who is knowing.
Thank you Deepak for your reminder.
Jonathan Granoff
04:16 PM on 07/05/2011
Dr Dee, Buddhist scholars are careful to use the word rebirth, not reincarnation, to apply to 1) finding the Self, as realization/enlightenment and 2) repetition (of ‘something’) in a new body, but....

Tibetan Dzogchen Buddhism says that the only thing that is 'reborn' is 'wisdom memory', the motivation, dedication, or blessing (Christian 'grace') that is exactly tuned and appropriate to the karma of the peoples of that time, to be most able to completely help them (p. 99-100, S. Rinpoche 0-06-250793-1).
This 'wisdom', the ability to grow socially, is like a sixth sense, let's call it compassion--the willingness to die to help society. It is thus a quality of ('advanced') humanity, but is NOT a 'personal' Self, even though it seems like personhood or ‘personal’ to the naive. This is why Buddhism says there is no one to sin, no one to be punished, and no one to reincarnate. The Buddhas and tulkus are embodiments on which this grace 'descends'--after which ‘they’, like the Dali Lama, can continue ‘it’ in life after life, e.g., when a realized master predicts where and when he will be reborn (p. 99) he is telling you, before he dies, into which fetus, or onto which grown person, he has ALREADY transferred the blessing of 'wisdom memory'--the ability to avoid the traps of egoism and to learn difficult meditation practices and dogmas easily.
04:07 PM on 07/03/2011
EXCELLENT! Beautifully stated. Thank you.
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Teacher Trish
The Enlightenment was a good idea.
01:27 PM on 07/02/2011
Well, I will step in and take on "Authenticity." I think it is overrated. I care more about your actions than whether or not you are self-actualized. I am guessing that the guy in Southern California who is picking tomatoes in 106 degree weather is not terribly concerned if he or the rest of humanity has found their perfect selves. He just wants a drink and a sandwich. So, take a break from contemplating your navel and donate to Oxfam (you can google the website). Get out of your selves and into the world.
11:17 AM on 07/03/2011
The problem is that the action you seek, comes from ones built or taught self-actualization.
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Teacher Trish
The Enlightenment was a good idea.
12:16 PM on 07/03/2011
I respectfully disagree. Children understand and embrace charity at around the age of 5 or 6. They can do this without the benefit of years of Psychoanalysis, EST or religious training. I would proffer that years of mirror gazing leads to more mirror gazing. When parents have problems with selfish or cruel children I always suggest that they try to wheedle the kids into some kind of service work so that they may learn compassion for others. I am not in any way remotely a political conservative nor am I a very spiritual person but I think this is one aspect of community life and mental health in which the religious right (especially Mormons) excels.
07:45 AM on 07/02/2011
Here we have an argument that all A are B, A being the entire human race, which is then backed by very specific examples that don't at all represent the whole human race. Bunk. Sorry, but the whole argument is based on all humans, so any examples that are a part of it need to be attributable to all humans. Also, the great thinkers didn't condone emotionally erasing ones self to reach some idealistic neutrally buoyant happy land that seems to be inferred by a lot of their readers, in fact many warned against becoming trapped in a false stupor of overly positive thinking, but those quotes don't look as good on a coffee mug so they get tossed aside by those that want to click their heels together and magically heal themselves and/or everyone from being human.
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Vinzago
02:26 PM on 07/02/2011
Plus, those not-so-rosy ideas are a bit harder to sell to the masses for a profit.
06:16 AM on 07/02/2011
The problem with Socrates is that outside of The Good as an Essence that leads to some definition of transcendence, he doesn't help Deepak sell more books.
06:09 AM on 07/02/2011
Thank you for the even handed treatment of the gay preacher example. It is too often that in articles and discussions that people refuse to consider the preachers assesment that homosexuality is condemned in parts of the Bible as being equally valid to the people who object to this assesment. I know of one specific news story where there was this exact example of a preacher. He believed homosexuality was a sin, but he had homosexual desires. He never acted on the desires and was going to a counciling group to overcome his struggles. He understood that he was a sinner and continued to his Savior, and the Word of God to fight all areas of sin in his life.

When it was discovered that he was attending the meetings there was a great deal of people who were very upset with him and the public tried to discredit him through their 'outing' of his attending the meetings. As a Christian I have a great deal of respect for this man because he is true to the faith. He is a perfect example of practical Christianity because Christians are sinners just like any other person and need to be open and honest about their struggles. Through repentance and putting our faith in Jesus daily we can still be an authentic Christian and a testimony to the world of the redeeming power of the gospel.

The book of 1 John deals with the tests of the an authentic Christian faith.
08:08 AM on 07/02/2011
Authentic, by the measure of a fundamentalist, read "also fundamentalist"
10:50 AM on 07/02/2011
Actually "authentic" by the definition of the Bible specifically in this example 1 John. Or are you just contending that 1 John should not be part of the Bible?
10:04 PM on 07/01/2011
Aside from the rather shallow test, the question of whether one's sexuality or religion is more fundamental is, for lack of a better term, a "stupid question." A person who internalizes the belief that he's no longer christian stops going to church, stops tithing, stops reading the bible. Someone who internalizes the belief that he's no longer gay or that his homosexuality is a bad thing is still gay. One is your subjective beliefs about the world, the other just... is.
02:26 PM on 07/01/2011
you can intellectually try to search for the "True Self", a very difficult task for most, or there are tools like meditation, to help and hasten the search process like ishakriya. the challenge with this isha kriya is that it is so experiential that it is almost addictive because of its simplicity and instant gratification. - love the walnut
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Saijanai
Micro bio? We don't need no stinkin' micro bio...
04:50 PM on 07/01/2011
For me, the "True Self," is related to physiological functioning of the brain. At least in TM practice, the "finding" of the Self is always spontaneous, and I''m of the opinion that you can't deliberately seek it out without making it less likely to find in the first place.
01:27 AM on 07/01/2011
JESUS THE LAST NEPHILIM ISBN:978-1-84748-797-1
The problem is not with Socrates, as he was getting his information directly from the Nephilim gods who the Greeks worshipped.
'The Nephilim were on the Earth in those days, and also afterward Genesis 6:4
'This story has been written to bring attention to evidence that has been suppressed for over eighty years.
08:14 PM on 06/30/2011
Thank you Dr Chopra. I say yes to all of you that undertake the difficult work of self discovery. As Dr Amit Goswani has stated this soul/spirit development is what true human maturity looks like.
01:05 AM on 07/01/2011
No self, no discovery, no problem. How difficult is that?
11:29 AM on 07/02/2011
The Self is non-negotiable as it is what we in truth are at our core. Self = Soul. Soul is part and parcel of the divine. An exact replica, but not an equal. There is no, "no self". All of this is beyond ego/mind.
04:51 PM on 06/30/2011
Our minds CANNOT solve the riddle of Soul.
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taijiredlion
sic itur ad astra
09:19 PM on 06/30/2011
Why would you think the soul is a riddle?
12:39 AM on 07/01/2011
Soul IS NOT THE RIDDLE mind is. Our minds deny the existance of Soul, consciousness and even it's self. If that is not a riddle, what is?
01:06 AM on 07/01/2011
Perfect!