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Devin Friedman

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What I Learned From Speaking with Scott Roeder

Posted: 01/29/10 03:35 PM ET

In May, a man named Scott Roeder from Kansas City drove up to Wichita and killed Dr. George Tiller while he was serving as an usher in his church. (I interviewed Scott Roeder extensively for a story published in the February issue of GQ.) Tiller was the most famous man in Wichita. And he'd become famous because he ran one of only three or four clinics in the country that provided late-term abortions; because he operated deep in enemy (culturally speaking) territory; and because he marketed himself robustly and fearlessly. For most of the last thirty years of his life he was the single greatest point of focus for all the affiliated parties of the pro-life movement.

He was shot in 1993 in both arms. His clinic was bombed. His clinic workers were tailed and photographed and harassed. He lived under US Marshall protection for a while, and drove an armored car. He was the object of an exhaustive investigation - many called it a vendetta -- by a man named Phill Kline, who ran for and won the office of Kansas Attorney General in part on a platform of putting George Tiller out of business. The trial that resulted from that investigation - he was ultimately acquitted of reduced, misdemeanor charges -- ended only a couple months before he was shot and killed.

After Dr. Tiller's death, those who weren't praising what Scott Roeder had done (and yes, as you might imagine, there were a number of factions who seemed pretty happy about the murder) were arguing over whether Scott Roeder was simply crazy, or if one particular sliver of the pro-life spectrum was ultimately culpable. Many on the left pointed their fingers at Bill O'Reilly. O'Reilly made George Tiller a household name to people outside the movement, began attacking him publicly in 1995 and liked to refer to him on his talk show as "Tiller the baby killer."

Is the fact that George Tiller was killed in cold blood in his church last spring Bill O'Reilly's fault? Keith Olbermann, of course, says yes. Various pro-choice organizations agree. One of the people I found most honest and forthright in my interviews - a horse veterinarian and member of George Tiller's church who performed CPR on him after he was shot -- told me that in his opinion Bill O'Reilly is at least partly to blame. I'd like to share that opinion. He's a fun man to hate - and it's hard not to want to piss him off so that he might zero in on you with his eye-lasers and nostril-fire. But if it's true that Bill O'Reilly is in some way responsible for Tiller's death, it's not in the way many people might think.

The murder trial of Scott Roeder ended today - it took a Wichita jury 37 minutes to find him guilty. Over the course of the trial, each courtroom session had become a microcosm of the explosive socio-political drama that played out in Wichita for so many years. You could see Tiller's family, grief-stricken and angry and steadfast, enduring the testimony (and the experience of being in the same room with Roeder) through gritted teeth. You could see the movement pro-lifers, the regular protestors (or "sidewalk counselors"), the telegenic Troy Newman, who came to Wichita earlier in the decade with good hair and a large following and promised to stay until he shut down George Tiller's clinic. And then you have the outer edges of that world - guys like David Leach and Regina Dinwiddie, folks affiliated with the so-called Army of God, the small element that has been advocating violence since abortion doctors first started getting murdered more than twenty years ago. And I'd argue that these folks have a more direct connection to the information rattling around inside Scott Roeder's head than Bill O'Reilly ever did.

I spoke to Scott Roeder at least a dozen times over the course of reporting. He told me he listened to Bill O'Reilly sometimes on the radio. (Scott wasn't a guy who had cable - he worked at marginal jobs and moved apartments an awful lot.) And he liked Bill O'Reilly. But Scott had a keen interest in and hunger for learning about terrible conspiracies that lay, as he believed, just beneath the fabric of society. He went to meetings where people discussed how the Illuminati were controlling the country and the world and feeding innocent women into a satanic sex cult. He believed the fluoride in drinking water was there to render the masses more docile, which is why he wouldn't drink from a tap. He believed federal tax laws weren't laws at all - and so they needn't be followed. And he believed in the information about George Tiller fed to him through websites and literature and conversation by the most violent fringe of the pro life movement. He believed Dr. Tiller intentionally tortured babies. He believed that once, when a fetus had been delivered still breathing during one of Dr Tiller's procedures, Dr. Tiller killed it with his bare hands.

Talking about the sick things Dr. Tiller supposedly did was one of Scott's favorite topics during our conversations. After all, if you are going to murder someone, it's not enough simply to say you have a philosophical difference with him. And he presented all this to me as if it had been printed in the New York Times. He presented this information to me as if it were unimpeachable. As if he were educating me about some material that I hadn't done enough research to know about.

Bill O'Reilly is not the person who created for Scott Roeder the specific narrative that he used to create in his mind a picture of a person whom he could murder proudly. But he did help to create an environment in which Dr. George Tiller was thought of as a criminal and a murderer (whatever you think about what he was doing, it was legal). He provided a kind of moral cover and cable-sanctified legitimacy.

It's a problem that's bigger than extremist pro-life elements or Bill O'Reilly. The problem is the thriving culture of manufacturing dehumanizing lies about people you disagree with, whether they are about Dr. George Tiller, or George W. Bush. It's dangerous. It's dangerous whether you say George Bush wanted to murder Iraqi children or Barack Obama is a secret terrorist who wants to use two married gay men to kill your grandmother. And it's incredibly dangerous for people in positions of authority or power to ratify insane, dehumanizing narratives about people. That's a relatively new phenomenon. The militia movement didn't have a cable channel. Scott Roeder did.

 
 
 
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06:31 PM on 02/02/2010
I think the author of the article was giving us a "what if" rather than a fact that someone actually said "George Bush wanted to kill Iraqi children" because I never once saw that statement made by anyone in the news. I'm sure Faux Snooze would have jumped all over it with both feet if anyone had and it would have eventually ended up here. If someone actually said that, I wish the author would have provided a link because I don't believe it ever happened.

I also agree with the other commenters who are saying there is no equivalency between the lies, venom, and heinous deeds of the radical Right to anything said or done by the Left. I do not agree with the author on that point. The fact is that a lot of what the last administration did was criminal, and that ignoring and not punishing that behavior for the sake of a false bipartisanship will only guarantee it will happen again, much worse next time, when the Repubs take over, which they most assuredly will next election cycle. No matter how much the truth comes out, it seems the majority of Americans wantto believe the lies. If we continue on that course, then Limbaugh, O'Reilly, etc. will get their wish and America will fail. Only I don't think they will like what comes after as much as they think.
04:38 PM on 02/01/2010
then where are the warriors of the left. i wonder how things would change if pro-life buildings started blowing up.
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illinoisan
We don't need no stinking badges
02:12 PM on 02/01/2010
I refuse to accept any notion of equivalency between right and left regarding the tone and tenor of rhetoric. The left does not demonize political rivals to the point of dehumanization, does not issue death threats and does not engage in assassination.
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ProfessorDuh
03:26 PM on 02/01/2010
On Aug, 6, 2009, Fox News star Glenn Beck "joked" that he'd like to mur der Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi by pois oning her wine, then had the transcript scrubbed to hide his statement.
Bill O'Reilly suggested that the CIA should kidnap Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and perhaps even waterboard Pelosi, at a stop on his "Bold & Fresh" speaking tour on Jan. 23, 2010, in Westbury, NY.
Fox News pundit Liz Trotta, while discussing the idea of assa ssinating Osama Bin Laden and Barack Obama, said, "Well ... both, if we could!, " then laughed happily.
05:42 PM on 02/01/2010
Not quite. The Banksters were operating within the law, allegedly.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
COPerez
12:04 PM on 02/01/2010
The left's issues with GWB call for openness and perhaps a trial.

The right's lunacy calls for murder.

False equivalency. He-said-she-said. The usual BS from the media.

IT IS NOT THE SAME.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
ProfessorDuh
02:10 PM on 02/01/2010
Exactly. The actions of war criminals whose lles get a million people killed -- Bush and Cheney -- cannot possibly be condemned in terms too strong.
09:53 AM on 02/01/2010
The truth about Bush is not equivalent to lies about Obama. False equivalency. You get a D. Please rewrite.
10:45 AM on 02/01/2010
Do you honestly believe that Shrub "wanted to murder Iraqi children"? I personally never heard such rhetoric, but it probably was said. As much as I think that W was the worst president in history and has done more to harm this country than any other president, I would never agree with such a statement. Did he have an axe to grind? I think so. Did he lie to get the support of the American people to invade Iraq? Absolutely. Has the war in Iraq greatly benefitted the cronies of Bush & Cheney? Cerainly. However, it is big jump to say that Shrub wants to kill Iraqi children. The point of this article is that members of both sides demonize the other side with lies or extreme exagerations. This prevents either side from listening to the other as the President pointed out at the congressional Republican retreat. Our situation is bad enough without hyperbole.

Yes, it does appear that the right is far more extreme and wants to scare the beejeezus of the American people. This does not justify it being done on the left. Nor is it always an acceptable retort when someone claims that Obama is not handling a situation correctly to say, "Bush did it first." If it was wrong when Bush did it, it is probably still wrong.
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brantl
01:22 PM on 02/01/2010
Whether he wanted to kill them or not, he didn't have any problem with them dying, so you've got a tomato/tomahto situation there. He certainly didn't give a rat's ass that they died, did he?

Obama's been buried to the waist (and waste!) in the mess Bush left' they don't get to bitch about the stains on Obama's pants (cost, problem policies while getting out, etc.). Capisce?
05:43 PM on 02/01/2010
Who okayed torture?
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ProfessorDuh
07:16 AM on 02/01/2010
Sorry, but we have yet to hear the truth about Bush and Cheney. We've only gotten truly horrifying hints of it. We do know Bush used lles to justify an unjustified war against a nation that never attacked or threatened the U.S. And no, he didn't necessarily want to mur der Iraqi children. He just didn't mind mur dering them, did he?
12:18 PM on 02/01/2010
You give Bush too much credit for understanding the potential implications of his actions. He probably would not be thrilled with the idea of killing Iraqi children. It just never entered into the equation for him. That would require too much thought and less reaction.
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ProfessorDuh
02:07 PM on 02/01/2010
Mass mur der by sociopathic ignorance is as evil as mass mur der through any other motive. All the children as still dead, and Bush kil led them.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
lgillooly
05:45 PM on 01/31/2010
Fox news is not the primary cancer. Talk radio is far more lethal. This format is unique in that the right controls 91 percent of our airwaves,it is interactive, it is cheap and available everywhere. It also reaches 20 million plus each day. The real power however is after the Nationally syndicated hosts like Rush, Hannity, Beck, Savage etc choose the story, pick the talking points and frame the debate these channels then play a local parroting host that repeats and repeats the same things. At the end of the day they turn on Fox and that is the icing on the cake.
Free speech is one thing, but what they have done to this country is quite another and yet tHere is no accountablility. For example, several months ago they incited hate, anger and distrust towards Obama over a report on right wing extremists by the DHS. They implied and some said directly that he was going after regular Republican voters and veterans. Callers were angry and even threatened the President. People actually wear t shirts that say I am a right wing exttremist. What they did NOT tell their listeners was that this report was initiated several months prior during the Bush admin and ther had also beem a report on left wing exttremists. This technique is used all of the time, with NO accountability. Amercans deserve better and this cancer needs to be treated ASAP.
09:06 AM on 02/01/2010
I couldn't agree more....especially about your points on the talk radio bully pulpits.
04:12 PM on 01/31/2010
to people who are so angered by abortion on religious reasons;

WHAT? You think those aborted fetuses go to hell or something?

JUDGE NOT, lest ye be judged as harshly as ye judge.

as for Obama being a 'secret terrorist'

well, for a Constitutional Lawyer he sure does a good job of ignoring and working to undermine and destroy the Constitution in only the first year of his term.

me thinks he doesn't understand the President is the Steward of the PEOPLE
not those with MONEY or Banks/FED or OIL, or insurance.
03:44 PM on 01/31/2010
"It's a problem that's bigger than extremist pro-life elements or Bill O'Reilly. The problem is the thriving culture of manufacturing dehumanizing lies about people you disagree with, whether they are about Dr. George Tiller, or George W. Bush."

C'mon, that's politics, been going on since written and spoken language was invented!

Problem is dehumanizing people, not "manufactured lies"; and dehumanizing another person is a choice we make, or don't.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
liberaldawg
Spalding Gray in a Rick Dees world.
02:25 PM on 01/31/2010
And Hitler made the trains run on time. What's you point?
You can't humanize this guy even a little. You can't imply
that he is mentally ill and deserves some kind of sympathy.
He's a cold blooded killer who rationalizes his crimes.
02:36 PM on 01/31/2010
You seem to have missed his point entirely.
12:30 AM on 02/01/2010
Do TRY to read the article before you comment on it. At least try.
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ramblin jack
01:29 PM on 01/31/2010
The sad truth is that abortion is a very devisive issue with both sides at times being unreasonable.
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Jimboy17
09:24 PM on 01/31/2010
I don't recall any supporters of choice ever going out and advocating or committing this type of crime.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
satanlite
Liberal blogger
06:48 AM on 02/01/2010
I don't believe for an instant that allowing a woman control over her body is unreasonable.
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cybersense
08:23 AM on 01/31/2010
I have seen so much, and although I join many, I can say I not only witness too much, but obseve the obscure reality people make for themselves.

Fear leads people to do really awful things to each other. Then you have people trying to overdue each other in that fear and bad so called journalism that feeds that fear, and we as Americans eat it.

There are those who have no bounderies in this attempt, and justify their actions as being "free speech" and loose any responsibility for what they do.

A nation devided will crumble. American is already beginning to. If we have learned anything from our own history is that if we unite, we can do amazing and good things if we are not led into hysteria.

I am fine with others having a difference of opinion, but I am not okay with all these commentators and others that only have a desire to obtain for themselves by doing so, at the expense of hurting so many others. That is the real evil isn't it? It is no longer about "ethical" responsibility. The law or rules of that law can be looked at in anyway to manage to circumvent it. It is about moral responsibility. I am not speaking from a "religious" point of view, as much as the human responsibility we have towards each other. We are supposed to evolve, but have we?
serena1313
Condemnation w/o investigation is hgt of ignorance
05:58 AM on 01/31/2010
Free speech is vital to a free and open society. But with it comes responsibility and a social awareness. Words matter. They have consequences. Today what passes as political commentary is unpalatable and dangerous. Tiller's death was tragic; It didn't need to happen. The idea that someone can demonize a person (or a whole segment of people) ♠ and escape blame when that person is harmed or killed is ludicrous. ♠

Spurious claims regurgitated by irresponsible pundits and commentators are cause for irrational fears. With the intensity of hate and anger directed toward liberals and Democrats, gays, undocumented workers, Muslims, abortion doctors, etc. escalating innocent people are bound to get hurt. Dr Tiller is one among many whose lives have abruptly ended needlessly.

Either O'Reilly doesn't care or is incapable of understanding that people kept in a prolonged state of fear and anger will eventually resort to violence. Yet day-in-and-day-out O'Reilly's hate fest continues to poison the minds of his viewing audience.

Although he may not be directly responsible, calling Dr. Tiller, time and again, the "baby-killer" O'Reilly does bear some of the blame for Tiller's murder and he needs to own up to it.
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KenLowJr
Long on the tooth
05:54 AM on 01/31/2010
I remember that during the Viet Nam war it wasn't a very popular thing to be asian, particularly if you were in the U.S. military. Simply because the enemy happened to be asian. In time of war it is much easier to kill the enemy if you can demonize them first. And so it was with Russia during the Cold War, Germans in World War II and so on. And so now, our country's politics have become war like. Before we engage in battle(debate), our political parties prepare by demonizing the opposition. Totally wasteful but also extremely destructive. President Obama pointed this out in his State of the Union speech and his address to the GOP in Baltimore a couple of days later. Is anybody listening? I really hope so.
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RButler
I've always wanted to have everything I wanted
05:36 AM on 01/31/2010
When people go on Oprah or other talk shows to discuss their addictions, incest, cancer stories and other issues, it is supposedly to make it OK to discuss these things. So, what is the difference when O'Reilly calls the doctor 'a baby killer'? Doesn't that give permission to those who might have secret thoughts about doing him harm to follow through, albeit a distorted sense that they have permission.

And, I'm not saying that Oprah and others shouldn't do what they're doing. It's just that O'Reilly has perverted the use of the public forum to create a harmful environment for the mentally unstable. But, then again, consider the source.
12:45 AM on 02/01/2010
In the case of the Oprah shows you mentioned, they people are talking about something that happened to them, and that is hard for others to talk about.

In the case of BillO, he is making an accusation, and his kangaroo court is carrying out the sentence. It isn't just Tiller, it was the Unitarian Church killing, the Holocaust Museum killing. The Virginia police killings. Hate is a common thread.
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RButler
I've always wanted to have everything I wanted
08:54 AM on 02/01/2010
My point is that any discussion in the media that gives a large audience support or agreement for what may have been a private conversion with themselves can possibly lead to either positive or negative results. In the case of BillO calling the doctor a baby killer many times over a period of years can lead someone to believe that their private violent thoughts are somehow acceptable and be more likely to act on them.

In the case of Oprah, the effect of a widespread discussion can have positive results for people. The media can be used for good or evil. People like O'Reilly have to be careful or somehow held accountable for broadcasting comments that may incite violence. I don't know how we can manage that given freedom of speech and press.