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Diane Ravitch

Diane Ravitch

Posted: October 4, 2010 01:58 PM

Last year I exchanged emails with a high-ranking official at the US Department of Education. I complained that the accountability movement had gotten out of control, that too much time was spent preparing to take tests, learning to take tests, and taking tests, especially in low income districts. I said that the time spent on testing was reducing time for the arts, history, science, civics, geography, even physical education. Thus, kids have more tests and worse education.

His first response was "you measure what you treasure." I replied, "No, you cannot measure what you treasure." How do you measure, friendship, love, courage, honor, civility, love of learning? I suppose he was moved a little bit, because he replied, "How can we incentivize the teaching of the arts?" I should have given up then, but responded that you do some things not for economic reward, and not because they are utilitarian, but because they are right.

A couple of weeks ago, I participated in an event sponsored by the Economist magazine in New York City. As I waited to go on, the previous speaker talked enthusiastically about why we should look to the arts and artists as sources of inspiration, creativity, and innovation. When my panel started (billed as a "debate" between me and Eva Moskowitz, founder of Harlem Success Academy), the first question was: "How do you envision schooling five years from now?" Eva spoke of individualization and personalization. I predicted, based on current policies in the US, that kids will be drilled endlessly for the next test. That the machinery will be in place to measure and test, driving out innovation, creativity, and divergent thinking. This is not wise and it is not smart.

It's a frightening scenario. I hope I am wrong. If there is not a major change in federal education policy, this is the likely outcome of where we are heading.


 
 
 

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03:42 PM on 10/06/2010
Ms. Ravitch, you are wrong. The last grasp of your generation of teaching will soon be over. A new generation of educators will arise. These educators will not find the "status quo" acceptable; rather they will find 50% drop-out rates a national disgrace. Rather than offer excuses, debate the problems, and demonize the parents and students; they will seek solutions. Every local teachers union is yelling "fire" in the school house, yet not a single one of these unions has offered any solution.

The tide has shifted, the "safe haven" of the teachers union, and its millions of political dollars, is nearing its end. How about Obama? Heavily endorsed by the teachers unions up to the election, the President is now the arch enemy of the teachers union (Diane, remember when we used to live in a democracy?).

This new generation of educational leaders will have new ideas, new energy, and a committment to the students first, the parents second, and the unions last.

"You have sat here too long for any good you are doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"
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traceydouglas
outside the box
09:32 PM on 10/06/2010
YOU are the one who is wrong and you have NO idea what you are talking about. How dare you insult public school teachers. And how do you purport to know what they think or do? We go to school each and every day seeking solutions. We ARE energetic, filled with new ideas and deeply committed to our kids and their families. DR. Ravitch is an educational scholar. Who are you? I'm willing to bet that you are NOT a public school teacher. And if you're referring to the" new generation of educational leaders" as those born from the womb of TFA, well then, you have NO credibility.
05:01 PM on 10/07/2010
Tic-tock, Tic-Tock, Tic-tock

LA Daily News: A sweeping overhaul of seniority-based teacher layoffs and other reforms in the nation's second-largest school district will continue despite teachers union opposition, city and school officials said Thursday.
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rackerly
author geniusinchildren
01:13 AM on 10/06/2010
Yes. Absolutely correct. Focus on learning; achievement will follow. http://bit.ly/aOKAdS
10:20 PM on 10/05/2010
There was a time, when I often disagreed with Diane Ravitch. I was from the "school finance crowd", better known as "equal education opportunity, the politics of education." Diane, wrote brillantly and came up with great data. But that was it, she measured teachers and students, and thought 'learning" must be measured with standardized tests for basic curricula and achievement. "Finance" was unimportant and she came at the education issues strictly from the "conservative establishment's" point of view, keep it local.

And, today if you ask me, "who do I admire most, or who do I believe has the gold key to put America's school students" back in the top 1% of all industrialized nations' education systems? I'll tell you it is Diane Ravitch! I wish I knew what brought about her change, but one thing is for sure. More and more educators, congressional officials, parents and academics should stop and read her writings and books. Testing tells us "how well the teacher is doing", not much about how well the student is doing, or understanding and maturing into a productive adult member of his/her family, community and country. Throw out the narrowed curriculm and classroom, have teachers who know how to guide and challenge young and older students to discuss literature, reading, math, writing, art and science;let them stand or sit, talk and explore with each other about health, morals and ethics, and above all no tests, let them be children!
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traceydouglas
outside the box
09:41 PM on 10/06/2010
I agree with you completely. Dr. Ravitch's change was brought about because she continued to look at the outcomes of NCLB, which she was active in creating, and realized that NCLB just hadn't resulted in the outcomes she and others expected.. I admire her because as one who helped create the educational horror we're in, she's admitted her mistake. There are not a lot of professionals of her stature who would NEVER admit a mistake. Everyone engaged in the public education debate needs to read her book "The Death and Life of the Great American School System".
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mlaiuppa
Pres. Sarcasm Society. Like we need your approval.
07:46 PM on 10/05/2010
Testing has nothing to do with student achievement. It doesn't measure it and it doesn't prove that learning has (or has not) taken place.

The only thing testing does is funnel money from public education into the coffers of private, for profit testing corporations.

And teachers have become the unpaid lackeys of these same private, for profit testing corporations by having to take time from real teaching to teach to the test. Previously mandated by the school adminstration. Soon to be necessary to merit being paid at all, thanks to Arne Duncan.

BTW Arne Duncan should be fired. Right after Geitner, and before Salazar and that useless guy running the FCC.
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traceydouglas
outside the box
10:17 PM on 10/09/2010
Gee, think what would happen if all parents waived their kids out of testing which they have the right to do. That would really send these deformers into a spin. Kids, if you've gotta take the standardized tests, just color in all of the 'A' bubbles in protest of this ridiculous testing!
02:25 PM on 10/05/2010
I am a retired high school teacher. I was passionate about teaching and about my students. What drove me to retire early was the fact that innovation was frowned upon and high-stakes testing became king. It was more important to cover a concept than for the kids to learn it. School officials were so intent on making sure that their school would be on top that teaching-to-the-test became their all-encompassing mantra. And there was no accountability for administrators, students, or parents; only teachers were held accountable. Yes, there are so-called educators who have no business teaching our kids; but there are others, far more numerous, who could bring the excitement of teaching and learning back into the classroom if they were allowed to experiment and maybe even fail. Because, in the end, it's these kind of teachers (think Charles Chippings, Glenn Holland, Mark Thackeray, Anne Sullivan, Louanne Johnson, Jaime Escalante, and others) who can and will make their students soar.
12:30 PM on 10/05/2010
The argument the author makes is kind of absurd. She is against testing because of some alleged phobic reaction to it by teachers. So because of that alleged phobic reaction we shouldn't be measuring performance. Should we be practicing to take these standardized tests? No. Practicing to take the test seems to miss the point. We want to find out where the kids stand in terms of their knowledge level on certain subjects. That knowledge level is why they are sent to school in the first place. Those who make their students practice the test seem to be trying to find a way to easily boost their scores. The real way to boost their scores is by teaching them the material they are supposed to learn through out the year.
02:38 PM on 10/05/2010
There are numerous ways to teach a child to learn. Testing is not one of them. Memorizing does not promote thinking. Walking to the same drum beat makes for bored and uninterested students and teachers. Education should be exciting and challenging. Taking and passing a high-stakes test is neither. In each area of study there is a curriculum. It should be up to the teacher as to how and when elements of that curriculum are taught (as long as they are taught). And the curriculum should not be geared towards academic success being measured by whether or not a child passes a test. It was not that way when I went to school; and it should not be that way now.
02:55 PM on 10/05/2010
If you have to memorize things to pass the test then it isn't a good test. Part of the problem in our education system seems to be that teachers get to stray too far from the curriculum. Ideally you would want education to be exciting and challenging, but lets get real. Much of it isn't. People don't get excited to learn their times tables or to develop good grammar. That doesn't mean that we don't do them. The freedom that we give teachers in their methods is dependant upon the results that their students are able to demonstrate. If you have unusual techniques, but your students are learning the material then great. If they aren't learning the material then we need to change some things. The tests are simply a tool to measure how much is being taught in the classroom. What else can we use? The grade the teacher decides to give the student?
11:01 AM on 10/05/2010
Yet the gross national product does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education, or the joy of their play. It does not include the beauty of our poetry or the strength of our marriages; the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage; neither our wisdom nor our learning; neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country; it measures everything, in short, except that which makes life worthwhile. And it tells us everything about America except why we are proud that we are Americans."
— Robert F. Kennedy

I think we could easily substitute "high-stakes standardized testing" for gnp and it reads the same. Because they're both about the same thing, really.
08:16 PM on 10/05/2010
Really/ I won't state my IQ,for a cpl of reasons.First,the actual number is a bit embarassing.Secondly, there is no way to verify it.But, I don't follow your reasoning (?).Could you explain?Use all the big ords you want
10:48 AM on 10/05/2010
I am a huge fan of Dr. Ravitch. We are reading her book [Death and Life of the Great American School System] in my teaching program right now, and I am glad to see her getting involved on the huffington post. Keep up the good work!
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Tyler James Lee
10:16 AM on 10/05/2010
In my own teacher training one thing that was very much stressed was that "you never teach to the test"....but that was fifty years ago...I suppose "that truth is no longer operative".
The essence of education is the solving of problems BY THE STUDENT. The job of the teacher is to present the pupil with questions which the pupil can answer with some mental stretch: not too easy a problem, or the student gets overconfident; not too hard or the student feels crushed and defeated; but "just right", so that confidence is built and the student learns above all that it is possible, he/she CAN do it, and that it's pleasurable...and then do it again, with a little more challenge, all based on that individual student. That is NOT the lockstep, memorize and regurgitate training we do today. It's obvious that our owners and masters don't want people who can think, they want people who are minimally trained, malleable, obedient: good "employees".
10:13 AM on 10/05/2010
Ms. Ravith,
I am a hugh fan of yours. I am currently a teacher candidate in Colorado, and we have been reading you book [Death and Life of the Great American School System]. I just want you to know that your message is getting out there, and you have the full support of the teaching community in Denver, CO. We need to do away with the flawed system that is reliant on high stakes standardized testing, and move in a more positive direction for education.
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Angie Sullivan
Students are my special interest.
09:07 AM on 10/05/2010
I wholeheartedly agree. Measure what they treasure? Who decided that the standardized tests measure anything we treasure? I treasure nothing about those tests. I think they may measure your ability to take a test - and that's it. I really doubt the tests ability to measure content knowledge. What a farce.

Do we want to become like other countries where early tests determine whether a person is even "worthy" to go on to further education? I thought education in America was different exactly because the disadvantage have access to something instead of letting a test determine their "caste" for the rest of their lives.
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David Campbell
08:59 AM on 10/05/2010
No Child Left Behind is yet another phony slogan to pretend education is improving. The tests used do not measure education or help create the only thing that matters-understanding. They measure guessing and short term memory. Here is a high order question: Discuss why America has become so successful. Include The Enlightenment, freedom of choice, immigration, our founders, separation of church & state, separation of powers and contributions of African-Americans, women, natural resources and The Magna Charta. This is education.
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Angie Sullivan
Students are my special interest.
09:30 AM on 10/05/2010
I'm afraid No Child Left Behind is doing exactly what the Republicans wanted to it to. . .gather data to document how education has "failed" Americans. There was no way that 100% of kids would ever pass the standardized tests. It just gives people data to hurt public schools.

Public schools and the teachers there have served Americans well. To continue to label them as failing society and forgetting all the important things it has done to improve the lives of millions of people was a hard hurdle to overcome but. . . No Child Left Behind is doing it.

The GOP wants to privatize schools, take away the money from public schools, and eliminate the fair and open public education of everyone . . . now it has the numbers to really drive it home.
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traceydouglas
outside the box
09:50 PM on 10/06/2010
And unfortunately the Dems seem to be wanting to privatize schools as well based on the policies of Bill Gates, uh, I mean Obama and Duncan....
02:59 PM on 10/05/2010
No Child Left Behind has done nothing BUT leave children behind. I am reminded of one of my students, who was not very good in math. He took MCAS in his sophomore year and failed to pass the math section by two points. He took the test again in his junior and senior years with exactly the same result. Thus, at graduation time, instead of receiving a diploma, he was given a certificate of attendance. This young man--who had a diagnosed learning disability--went to school full time, worked thirty hours a week to help support his family, and took care of his mentally challenged brother. Yet, because of the test decreed by No Child Left Behind, he was denied a high school diploma. So much for not leaving children behind.
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Elijah A Alexander Jr
Elijah NatureBoy
08:47 AM on 10/05/2010
Diane,
We need to get the definition of educate; "bringing forth from within through observation, participation and reasoning and being able to explain the findings;" into the teaching profession. Educate is usually defined as instructing people on doing the three "R's" instead of the bringing forth from within.

Something needed in conjunction with education is restoration of families. The nation has so inflated costs that no family is able to survive with a single parent working requiring the children to be left in daycare and have almost no family relations. If housewives or husbands raised our children they would be able to instruct them, as has never been done in modern civilizations, that everything they do is for learning at a young age.

That require them to always do for learning and self discipline them not to do for liking and disliking, the major cause for additions. A small child was doing something his mother had often told him to stop but he ignored. When I asked him "what are you learning from doing that" he thought for a minute and stopped doing it. Instill in children all actions are done for learning from, that everything they do will return to them in a like manner and they will spend their lives thinking before acting as the child did. We often say "think before acting" but don't suggest what to think, it should be think about what's being learned.
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07:46 AM on 10/05/2010
Check out the film, "Race to Nowhere: The Dark Side of America's Achievement Culture." You can see a clip at http://www.racetonowhere.com/

This film is about the experiences of students, their stress, mental and physical health, etc. So often, the experiences of actual students--our children, who are human beings--are completely discounted in all the talk about "what to do about education."

This film is not a "blame the school" movie but a movie about the culture of achievement in our country and what that does to our younger citizens.
07:35 AM on 10/05/2010
There is a disconnect about the ideology of education. On one hand we have the perspective of 'systematize, measure, achieve' and on the other hand we have 'nurture, develop, grow'. Although money is an issue, it seems that it is not the only issue or maybe even the most important issue. Doubling the money involved could help either approach achieve its goals more readily, but the end result would be quite different in each case.

The environs at the time of Dewey (of the library classification system) was that liberal education was being reserved only for the select wealthy/anointed, while focused vocational training was for the masses. While the current debate has its own unique context, the measure=treasure formulation itself seems to advance the command/control aspects of education policy to the top of the agenda.